Posts by Cleveland Okie

Thank you for the book recommendations, Don, and I'll also look up Epicurus at the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy.

Thank you, Josh, and thank you everyone! That was quite a lesson, as Cassius says, and I will keep the recommendation in mind for the book about Alexandria.

Of possible related interest: One of the reasons I enjoyed the DeWitt book is that I like reading about classical history and culture anyway: I just finished reading "Five Roman Lives," a recent translation of five of Plutarch's lives: Pompey, Caesar, Cicero, Brutus and Antony, and the lives sometimes mention Epicureans. Apparently at least some of Caesar's assassins were Epicureans; a book I have on hold at the library, "The Last Assassin: The hunt for the killers of Julius Caesar" by Peter Stothard apparently goes into some detail on that.

I was surprised that the "Very Short Introduction to Epicureanism" doesn't mention DeWitt's book. So I looked up Epicureanism in my third edition of the Oxford Classical Dictionary, and it doesn't mention the book either!

As I've been invited to submit questions, I did have one: Has anyone seen any evidence that Epicurus might have been influenced by Buddhism? Of course, Epicurus did not advocate either indulgence or extreme ascetism but recommend a sensible middle course, and I'm struck by how his actual advice (as opposed to misconceptions) is rather reminiscent of the Middle Way of Buddhism. Siddhartha of course was raised in luxury and experimented with ascetism and ultimately rejected both.

Just wanted to log that I am plugging away on my reading. I finished DeWitt's book and now tonight I finished Catherine Wilson's "Very Short Introduction" book. Wilson's book is not bad, but I thought DeWitt's was more interesting.

I have "How To Be An Epicurean" on hold at the library, so that will be next.

Thank you very much to everyone for taking the time to offer thoughtful replies, and I also will follow the links you guys offer when I get time.

A few observations/questions:

1. I'm most of the way through DeWitt's book, and in Chapter 14 he writes of Epicurus, "He favored a minimum of government and chose to look upon men as free individuals in a society transcending local political boundaries." Is this an eccentric opinion of DeWitt's, or would most experts on Epicurus describe him as a kind of libertarian or classical liberal? It is interesting to me that my current intense interest in Epicureanism was spurred by Bryan Caplan's recommendation that everyone read the "Letter to Menoeceus." (Caplan is a libertarian blogger, college professor and author. Many of his views are decidedly Epicurean, i.e. he stresses the importance of friendship.)

2. Now that I know more about Epicureanism, thanks to DeWitt's book, I have to say that the Epicurean position that puzzles me the most is the denunciation of mathematics. Is there a ancient Greek cultural context here that I'm not getting?

3. About sex, same question. Is Epicurus negative toward sex because he opposed older men hitting on young boys, or is there something else at work here? I don't see how, for example, married sex would contradict Epicurean principles.

4. I didn't really get an answer to my query about Hiram Crespo's book, but related to that, I was browsing on Kindle the other night and I ran across Cassius' "Elemental Epicureanism" and bought it for 99 cents. At that price, and with its collection of basic texts, it ought to be recommended to every new person joining this website. I'll note that an "H. Crespo" recommended it and gave it five stars.

Oh, I see you've created a useful thread!

Thread

Modern Books on "Practical Advice" On Applying Epicurean Philosophy

Let's see if we can prepare a list of "modern" books to mention in a list of those for people to consider on the "practical side." We can edit and update this list as more are added. Links are to the book's location at Amazon.com:

Please included in the thread below any you would like to add to this list, plus give your comment on it. Thanks!

1. Haris Dimitriadis (Epicurus and the Pleasant Life - A Philosophy of Nature" and "Death is Nothing To Fear")
2. Catherine Wilson (How To Be An Epicurean

…

Cassius

October 18, 2021 at 9:25 AM

It looks like the only recommendations I'm getting are Catherine Wilson's books, so I will try them next.

What do you guys think of Hiram Crespo's book, "Tending the Epicurean Garden"?

Cassius, I have been reading DeWitt's book, a chapter a day, and I'm about halfway through. It's a very good backgrounder on the philosopher and the philosophy, so it's a good early book to read, but I think my main interest is, as you put it, to "focus on the more practical aspect of applying Epicurean philosophy." What is your favorite among books that do that?

I've finished "Epicurus and the Pleasant Life." I thought it was quite good, if a little uneven. I particularly liked Chapter 9, the chapter on Pleasure. This is one of the sentences I bookmarked in the chapter: "The wise man creatively leverages the capacity of the mind to look backward and forward, but those who look to the past with bitterness and to the future with fear ran the danger of transforming this ability into a weakness."

And I liked this sentence from Chapter 30: "The physical pleasures through our senses and the mental pleasures through our mind are an endless ocean. All we need to do is become more attentive to the present and not allow ourselves to be pulled out of our ongoing pleasure by fear of future pain."

I'm going to read Norman DeWitt's book next; I'm a little frustrated by not being able to find a Kindle or ePub edition, but I have downloaded a PDF.

One of the reasons Epicureanism is attractive to me is many of the doctrines fit with conclusions I already had reached. For example, his advice not to become obsessed with politics seems more relevant than ever in the current age; I sometimes feel I am the only person in the U.S. who doesn't endlessly post political talking points on Facebook, repeating slogans from a favorite political TV network.

In my day job, I come into contact a lot with people affected by the opioid crisis. Epicurus wasn't talking about heroin, I guess, but addiction to hard drugs seems exactly like the kind of pleasures that are not worth indulging in. It's hard to enjoy looking at a sunset or talking to a pretty girl if you are dead from an overdose.

Thanks for the welcome.

How I got here: I have run across references to Epicureanism before that made the philosophy seem interesting, but what sparked my recent concentration was this blog post by Bryan Caplan:

Where he writes, "The best three pages in philosophy remain Epicurus’ “Letter to Menoeceus.”

I read the letter, I think the version on your website, and I am now almost finished with "Epicurus and the Pleasant Life" by Haris Dimitriades. I have downloaded a copy of the DeWitt book and I plan to read it soon.