Posts by Kalosyni

Venus is complex with many varying aspects/forms, and she comes about due to the earlier Aphrodite (also many aspects/forms).

Wikipedia article: Venus (mythology)

Here is a journal article: "Venus and Lucretius"

https://www.jstor.org/stable/641366

For anyone who likes "arm-chair travel"... it looks like travel to Samos (the birthplace of Epicurus) is gaining in popularity...lots of videos on YouTube:

On this second video, it includes some history aspects:

On this last video "Secret Greece" ...the first half covers food, hotel, and beach experience (didn't watch the last half):

Here is a song to help celebrate today...and since Epicurus was from the island of Samos!

(I do not know what island was filmed for this video).

Here is a translation from Greek into English from the internet:

We who grew up with the island the color

And the water of the sea rained our mouths

We feast differently we dance island

A lute and violin until the east comes out (bis)

Our dreams became shells in the Cyclades

Maria Nomikou - Στίχοι Εμείς γλεντάμε αλλιώτικα...χορεύουμε νησιώτικα

Maria Nomikou Στίχοι Εμείς γλεντάμε αλλιώτικα...χορεύουμε νησιώτικα: Εμείς που

lyricstranslate.com

Happy Twentieth Everyone! And Happy Summer Solstice!

As I was looking to find something about the seasons in De Rerum Natura, I noticed the differences in various translations (you can take a look a three three translations side-by-side here).

If you want to suggest any other quotes on the seasons from Lucretius that you like, please do!

This is the translation at Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy:

Quote

Tomorrow, dearest Piso, your cultured companion drags you
To his humble shack at three o’clock
To feed you your annual dinner on the Twentieth. If you’ll miss
Sow’s udders and Bromius’ Chian wine,
Still you’ll see your faithful companions and hear
Things far more sweet than the Phaeacians’ land.
And if you ever turn your gaze on us too, Piso,
We’ll have a richer Twentieth, instead of a humble one.

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But did they take poetic license with the phrase "your cultured companion"? (I prefer Paton's translation, as in post one above).

When he says "hear things far more sweet than the Phaeacians' land... possibly he was refering to Lucretius De Rerum Natura ...(especially the opening which speaks of Venus and Nature)...just a thought.

I am thinking now about the possibility that there was a custom for Epicureans to speak about pleasure and pleasurable things at their symposium/feasts...just another idea to ponder.

Link to the ancient Greek text:

Greek Anthology, Volume IV, book 11, chapter 44

fyi...Just for fun, we have this sub-forum:

Versions of the Text of Lucretius

...and this thread:

Thread

Favorite Translation of Lucretius

Just a little poll while I was doing some work...

Eikadistes

January 24, 2023 at 2:38 PM

Perhaps it ought to be phrased: "The Spirituality of Nature" rather than "religion" (because I am taking notice of what Lucretius wrote at the start of Book 4 in Derum Natura regarding "religion").

One would guess that back in time people where much more in tune with "Nature" -- much more sensitive toward it. Although most people thought that the causes of things came from gods/goddesses.

For modern times, my idea is that the "spirituality of Nature" would be a kind of "return to sensing Nature" and as a way of increasing good health and pleasure.

We understand the causes of things through science, but modern civilization has brought us a feeling of being distant from Nature -- even though we are still in the midst of it!

Quote from TauPhi

Ah, nothing beats AI generated slop.

'Does generation Z worry about Friday the 13th?.

AI answer: 'Some people may be potentially superstitious and some may not be potentially superstitious. Some sources suggest that some people in the past were more superstitious but some sources indicate that the other sources do not definitively support the claim that initial sources sourced in potentially superstitious people suggest that sometimes Friday is the 13th which is a potential worry to some people. Or not.'

Below are some points from the second half of the AI response (which was in my original post above) ...which I have shortened/reworded:

--Individuals can pick up superstitious beliefs by being taught directly by parents, or by observation or imitation of family or friends.

--When an individual feels a lack of control or they have difficulty facing uncertainty, they may be more susceptible to forming superstitious beliefs, especially if they believe that events can be influenced by bad luck.

--Individuals often fall into confirmation bias in which they look for evidence that supports their current beliefs, even if those beliefs are irrational -- such that they will focus on the negative events that happen on Friday the 13th, as proof that that it is unlucky.

And PD01 seems to force one to use inductive reasoning, don't you think?

A recent post regarding the Tetrapharmakos in the thread "Tsouna's On Choices and Avoidances", opened up a question for me regarding PD01...and which it seems we can have 3 positions:

1) it is speaking about the nature of gods

2) it is speaking about the conception of the idea of gods

3) it is speaking about the nature of a wise man

And since the translations do not use the word "god" or "gods"...I am wondering where everyone stands on this now?

Coming up next week on Friday is our next monthly 20th gathering!

For Level 03 and above -- we will send out the link (and reminder) a day before. If you are Level 03 and have not yet attended, let us know if you are interested and we will add you to the private group which receives the link. (If you have been absent from the forum for 6 months or more, please let us know of your interest to attend so that we can add you back into the private group message).

This month's agenda:

• Greetings around the table
• Opening commemoration reading, presented by Kalosyni
• Notable Epicureans for June, presented by Cassius
• Open discussion on Epicurean philosophy, recent popular forum threads, and podcast
• SUMMER SOLSTICE! - let's celebrate summer and the joys of Nature! - bring a beverage of your choice to drink, and a snack to eat, during the meeting ---this is optional. Perhaps we will have a "go-around the table" of talking about what we are all up to this summer or what we are enjoying the most about this summer!

Looking forward to seeing you there!

Quote from Kalosyni

I found this interesting podcast with transcript:

"Speaking of Psychology: The psychology of superstition, with Stuart Vyse, PhD"

https://www.apa.org/news/podcasts/…gy/superstition

Here's some non-AI info ...

https://www.apa.org/news/podcasts/speaking-of-psychology/superstition

I just found this result on Google:

Plus I found this interesting podcast with transcript:

"Speaking of Psychology: The psychology of superstition, with Stuart Vyse, PhD"

https://www.apa.org/news/podcasts/speaking-of-psychology/superstition

Quote from Don

Quote from DaveT

the four cardinal principles,

The Tetrapharmakos?

The first four Principal Doctrines??

PD01. The blessed and incorruptible nature knows no trouble itself, nor causes trouble to any other, so that it is never constrained by anger or favor. For all such things exist only in the weak. ^[1]

PD02. Death is nothing to us, for that which is dissolved is without sensation; and that which lacks sensation is nothing to us.

PD03. The limit of quantity in pleasures is the removal of all that is painful. Wherever pleasure is present, as long as it is there, there is neither pain of body, nor of mind, nor of both at once.

PD04. Pain does not last continuously in the flesh, but the acutest pain is there for a very short time, and even that which just exceeds the pleasure in the flesh does not continue for many days at once. But chronic illnesses permit a predominance of pleasure over pain in the flesh.

Quote

[01] MOTHER of Rome, Delight of Men and Gods, Sweet Venus; who with vital power does fill the sea bearing the ships, the fruitful Earth, all things beneath the rolling signs of Heaven; for it is by Thee that creatures of every kind conceive, rise into life, and view the Sun’s bright beams. Thee, Goddess, Thee the winds avoid; the clouds fly Thee and Thy approach. With various art the Earth, for Thee, affords her sweetest flowers; for Thee the sea’s rough waves put on their smiles, and the smooth sky shines with diffused light. For when the buxom Spring leads on the year, and genial gales of western winds blow fresh, unlocked from Winter’s cold, the airy birds first feel Thee, Goddess, and express thy power. Thy active flame strikes through their very souls. And then the savage beasts, with wanton play, frisk over the cheerful fields, and swim the rapid streams. So pleased with thy sweetness, so transported by thy soft charms, all living Nature strives, with sharp desire, to follow Thee, her Guide, where Thou art pleased to lead. In short, Thy power, inspiring every breast with tender love, drives every creature on with eager heat, in seas, in mountains, in swiftest floods, in leafy forests, and in verdant plains, to propagate their kind from age to age.

[21] Since Thou, alone, doest govern Nature’s laws, and nothing, without Thee, can rise to light, without Thee nothing can look gay or lovely; I beg Thee a companion to my lays, which now I sing of Nature, and I devote to my dear Memmius, whom Thou art ever pleased, sweet Goddess, to adorn with every grace. For him, kind Deity, inspire my song, and give immortal beauty to my verse.

In this opening passage, it seems that Venus is above Nature, but could we also see it as Venus is the personification of Nature?

Also we see the phrase "which now I sing of Nature" - which casts Nature as something to celebrate and extol - and this could have an aspect of the "spiritual".

This thread is to consider whether or not Nature could be the main focus of "religion" or "spirituality" for Epicureans.

I will add here some references from De Rerum Natura.

Quote from Don

On a slightly more serious note, inspired by Joshua 's post, I would offer that the paranormal and pseudoscience feed an answer to the question many seem to ask: Is this all there is?

That question presupposes there's something "less than" about our physical, natural, material universe. It's somehow "not enough". There has to be more than just this or nothing has any meaning.

I think this question happens because of religion, which focuses on heaven, and it makes the world and the earth as something less than heaven/God...so "Is this all there is?" is a remnent left by religious thinking.

Also, the "something less than" is that there are certain elements of true reality that are cumbersome and slow - but magic and a magical world (which would include telepathy) gives you powers and speeds things up, makes things possible that you couldn't do otherwise. While in reality (as I wrote in post 27 above) without telepathy you have to go the slow and difficult way to find out what someone is thinking.

Since we live in the material world in which "telepathy" equals guessing...the usual method, although much slower and basically requiring consent (in comparison), to find out what someone is thinking is to ask them to share their thoughts (lol).

Here's another Google search (take it or leave it, whether or not these tips will work):

Google said:

To gently guide someone towards sharing their true thoughts, ask open-ended questions that invite a more detailed response and encourage them to share their feelings and perspectives. Consider using phrases like "What's been on your mind lately?" or "What's your perspective on this?" Offer a safe space for them to share, showing respect and understanding.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

1. Open-Ended Questions:

• "What's been on your mind?": This is a general way to invite someone to share their thoughts.
• "How are you feeling?": This focuses on emotional state and can help them articulate their feelings.
• "What's your perspective on this?": This encourages them to share their opinion and insights.
• "What are your thoughts on...": This invites them to share their opinions on a specific topic.
• "How do you see things?": This encourages them to share their point of view.

2. Showing Respect and Understanding:

• Active listening:

  Pay attention to their words and body language, and show that you're engaged in the conversation.

• Non-judgmental approach:

  Create a safe space where they feel comfortable sharing their thoughts, even if they are different from your own.

• Empathy:

  Try to understand their perspective and feelings, even if you don't agree with them.

• Validation:

  Acknowledge their feelings and experiences, even if they are difficult to hear.

3. Guiding the Conversation:

• Reflect their statements: Paraphrase what they've said to show you're listening and understanding.
• Ask follow-up questions: If they're hesitant to share, you can gently ask more specific questions to guide them towards sharing their thoughts.
• Use "why" questions: "Why do you feel that way?" or "Why do you think that's important?" can help them explore their reasoning.

By combining open-ended questions, a respectful approach, and active listening, you can create a safe space for someone to share their true thoughts and feelings.

Quote from Don

how prominent supernatural or pseudoscience is ingrained into pop culture...

...And so on and so on ...

And Don your list didn't even include Dune, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, etc.

Quote from Don

Quote from Rolf

To be honest I think a big reason why people believe in telepathy and the like is because it sounds cool

I blame Star Wars

Star Trek... the Vulcan mind-meld