Posts by Don

Quote from Godfrey

Maybe they're in Volume 2

I applaud your optimism

Plus would we want any Jefferson, Gassendi, DeWitt, etc?

40 Principal Doctrines

~60 unique Vatican Sayings

Epicurus: Fragments - translation

Attalus's site lists Usener's 607 citations but I'm not sure how many of those would work.

Definitely agree with Godfrey that Lucretius should be represented. I would add quotes from the works of Philodemus as well as Hermarchus and Metrodorus where those are extant. It might be nice to add the classical mention of Themista even though we don't have her writings.

Just thinking off the top of my head here.

A_Gardner , I've wanted to do exactly that for a couple years now. I even tried to compile 366 individual quotes. It wasn't easy. I found myself leaning on "contemporary" Epicurean themed writings, etc.

This might actually be a good cooperative project to come up with 366 suitable quotes.

Quote from Cassius

longerliving

I'm coming round to the idea that Epicurus's intended emphasis of άφθαρτον "everlasting, incorruptible" is on the state of not being able to be corrupted, or able to decay instead of the idea of "eternal" as in existing across time forever. He could have used αθάνατος (athanatos) "undying" if he wanted to convey that. I realize it's subtle but I think it's important.

I don't know your location, Alex , but you might want to see if you can borrow the book from a library before purchasing it:

Facing death : Epicurus and his critics (Book, 2006) [WorldCat.org]

Prof. James Warren's faculty page: https://www.classics.cam.ac.uk/directory/james-warren

He does seem to have some specialization in Hellenistic philosophy, and did serve as editor of the Cambridge Companion as Joshua mentioned. I also see at the publisher's site https://oxford.universitypressscholarship.com/view/10.1093/0…f-9780199252893 that Voula Tsouna cites the book in her The Ethics of Philodemus which I own, and, yes, she cites him extensively in the chapter on the fear of death. So, I'd hold off on Warren's book unless you're specifically interested in that topic. If you want something a little expensive, I'd suggest Tsouna's book on Philodemus. I like it because it gives a number of translations of Philodemus's works that aren't readily available elsewhere.

To really make it suitable for performance, I would suggest we'd really need something like this. That's NOT to say you couldn't stick directly to them text! Then narrator would just have to stick close to the text and jump in when there's "her said..." etc. :

THEON: Oh monstrous! Ye Gods! and will ye suffer your names to be thus blasphemed? How do ye not strike with thunder the actor and teacher of such enormities? What! will ye suffer our youth, and the youth of after ages, to be seduced by this shameless Gargettian? Shall the Stoic portico be forsaken for the garden of Epicurus? Minerva, shield thy city! Shut the ears of thy sons against the voice of this deceiver!

NARRATOR: Thus did Theon, having left the portico of the Stoics, give vent to the indignation which the words of Timocrates had worked up within him. Timocrates had been a disciple of the new school; but, quarreling with his master, had fled to the followers of Zeno; and to make the greater merit of his apostacy, and better to gain the hearts of his new friends, poured forth daily execrations on his former teacher, painting him and his disciples in the blackest colours of deformity; revealing, with a countenance distorted as with horror, and a voice hurried and suppressed as from the agonies of dreadful recollections, the secrets of those midnight orgies, where, in the midst of his pupils, the philosopher of Gargettium officiated as master of the cursed ceremonies of riot and impiety.

Full of these nocturnal horrors, the young Theon traversed with hasty steps the streets of Athens, and issuing from the city, without perceiving that he did so, took the road to the Piraeus. The noise of the harbor roused him to recollection, and, feeling it out of tune with his thoughts, he turned up the more peaceful banks of the Cephisus, and, seating himself on the stump of a withered olive, his feet almost washed by the water, he fell back again into his reverie. How long he had sat he knew not, when the sound of gently approaching footsteps once more recalled him. He turned his head, and, after a start and gaze of astonishment, bent with veneration to the figure before him. It was of the middle size, and robed in white, pure as the vestments of the Pythia. The shape, the attitude, the foldings of the garment, were such as the chisel of Phidias would have given to the God of Elocution. The head accorded with the rest of the figure; it sat upon the shoulders with a grace that a painter would have paused to contemplate — elevated, yet somewhat inclining forward, as if habituated gently to seek and benevolently to yield attention. The face a poet would have gazed upon, and thought he beheld in it one of the images of his fancy embodied. The features were not cast for the statuary; they were noble, but not regular. Wisdom beamed mildly from the eye, and candor was on the broad forehead, the mouth reposed in a soft, almost imperceptible smile, that did not curl the lips or disturb the cheeks, and was seen only in the serene and holy benignity that shone over the whole physiognomy: it was a gleam of sunshine sleeping on a lucid lake. The first lines of age were traced on the brow and round the chin, but so gently as to mellow rather than deepen expression: the hair indeed seemed prematurely touched by time, for it was of a pure silver, thrown back from the forehead, and fringing the throat behind with short curls. He received benignly the salutation of the youth, and gently with his hand returning it —

EPICURUS: Let me not break your meditations; I would rather share than disturb them.

NARRATOR: If the stranger's appearance had enchanted Theon, his voice did now more so; never had a sound so sweet, so musical, struck upon his ear.

THEON (to himself): Surely I behold and hear a divinity.

NARRATOR: Theon stepped backwards, and half-stooped his knee with veneration.

EPICURUS: From the groves of the Academy, I see.

THEON: No; from the portico.

EPICURUS: Ah! I had not thought Zeno could send forth such a dreamer. You are in a good school, a school of real virtue; and, if I read faces well, as I think I do, I see a pupil that will not disgrace its doctrines.

Quote from camotero

Does "kai" only translate to "and"?

και is just the conjunction "and"

Sorry

Honestly, I'm still in the Sedley idealist camp since, to my mind, the only way something could be ἄφθαρτον is if it is a mental construction, something in our imagination to who we stream images of a being who is experiencing an eternally pleasurable state of being. I admit I need to read more and meditate on these things, because Epicurus placed a great deal of importance on this.

Quote from camotero

Quote from Nate

ceaselessly satisfied being

This makes much more sense than inmortal being. Could this be a mis interpretation of the greek word too? What was it?

Epicurus: τὸν θεὸν ζῷον ἄφθαρτον καὶ μακάριον

A god is a ἄφθαρτον and μακάριον being (or image depending how you interpret
ζῷον)

ἄφθαρτον = incorruptible, undying, eternal, uncorrupted

μακάριον = blessed, completely happy, etc

Quote from camotero

Quote from Don

my 80-page exploration of the letter to Menoikeus

is this available somewhere?

In the final editing... Stay tuned

PS I should say "final" editing... I'll remain a work in progress.

All good points! Thanks (and sorry to be the wet blanket)

Last minute shopping... Had to share attached photo *This* is what people remember?

One thing I'd like to share is that, according to Philodemus's On Piety, Epicurus enthusiastically took part in the festivals and rites of Athens. He may have had his own internal interpretation of them, but he didn't shy away from celebrating them.

I think that's a valuable lesson. We can take part wholeheartedly in traditional - even religious - celebrations of the season as long as we remember to leave the supernatural trappings behind - even if it's just by keeping it to ourselves.

If you enjoy carols or even the pomp and circumstance of a midnight mass or church service, go for it unreservedly.

We have an exemplar of our own in the "master architect of happiness" himself.

You're welcome to plan, but I'd advise against this. A weekly commitment is one of the reasons I'm taking a sabbatical from the podcast.

One of the things that makes the 20th special is the connection it gives us to our Philosophical ancestors. It is truly an Epicurean event. Diluting that with more online meetups makes me a little sad. Even the Sunday recording sessions started to feel like church (that's not a positive association btw).

Maybe we need a more "formal" agenda for the 20ths? Open up to more people? I like your number 4 above as a start. Plot out 20ths ahead of time? Epicurus's birthday is coming up too I believe. Jan 9 or 10 (7 Gamelion) https://www.hellenion.org/calendar/

https://www.epistemeacademy.org/calendars/yearly_calendar.html?ccyear=2022&vADBC=AD&CCode=Attic&day=274

https://www.jstor.org/stable/638331?mag=celebrating-solstice-the-ancient-greek-way&seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents

This was a new ancient Greek winter solstice festival for me.

Quote from Cassius

Sedley's "Epicurus and the Transformation of Greek Wisdom," a

Not to be pedantic, but it's Lucretius and the Transformation of Greek Wisdom. In case anyone is looking for the book.

Online Resources on Herculaneum Papyri | The Herculaneum Society

I realize these last few posts are not translations, but some at least have notations to which Herculaneum Papyri have fragments of On Nature in them. Then one could use those Papyri numbers to search for translations elsewhere. Those links also give a graphic image of how fragmentary some of these are!

Authors A-Z

Chartes - Papiri