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This seems to me one of the key points on this forum lately and helps clear up a lot of issues with neo-epicureanism. So how would you explain that to someone?
Experientially I have discovered this to be true but I don't think I could explain it in a good way.
Great episode I listened to it on my treadmill
Slanderous man, I wonder how many millions (billions?) of people's happiness he destroyed with the doctrine of Original Sin? Catholics, Puritans etc... making us distrust our own feelings and thoughts due to then being "totally depraved". Anyway thanks for sharing, perhaps his hand got burned by some Epicurean ember before he wrote this.
The whole anti natalist thing reminds me of the greek hedonist who tried to convince people to self-delete, think he was a Cyrenaic..
Ok to be more specific for the record, I am much closer to your "Asian" friends on this question.
~As am I. I think a large reason my Irish friends aren't is left over guilt from catholicism, outside of Italy and Poland no other country has been as impacted by it.
And for the sake of appreciating that complexity we should all take a second to revel in the appropriateness of Don's hostility to hypotheticals!
How do you set out a hypothetical "natural" and "necessary" that is actually useful without referring to the facts of a particular situation?
Yes this is what I like to see!! But generally I think for some reason, western people generally see sex as something nice but not needed for a happy life and my eastern/asian/middle eastern friends see it as 100% necessary. So I have people in mind when I ask these questions but I wonder what's everyone here perspective, for you is it necessary?
Also as you indicated the broader humanity it is necessary, death is nothing to us, so life is everything. So being born is everything to us, before birth shares the same regard as death - no sensation/consciousness - therefore also nothing to us.
Also what just came to my mind is how would I would respond to an antinatilast who says "life is too much pain, so don't reproduce" anyway just thinking out loud maybe someone has an answer.
it makes things difficult outside of one night stands which as you move from early 20s to early 30s become less desirably it seems for most.
Just want to mention that "one night stands" -- may or many not bring more pain then pleasure, it depends on both parties fully understanding the terms of the encounter. And before considering a "one night stand" one should contemplate this guidance:
PD5: "It is not possible to live joyously without also living wisely and beautifully and rightly, nor to live wisely and beautifully and rightly without living joyously; and whoever lacks this cannot live joyously."
Yes I agree, I find in early 20s they are far more pleasurable than now in my 30s for both parties. Not because of the act but because of the pain after it e.g. one party wanting more than a one night stand etc... where as in early 20s it's expected that it is just for the mutual singular night pleasure.
Also, maybe technology (cellphones/internet) is subduing the mind-body connection so that people are less aware of sensations of the body.
Yeah in my discussions with friends this is one of the main causes. The other is lack of financial freedom, most of us are house sharing at least with 2 other strangers here so it makes things difficult outside of one night stands which as you move from early 20s to early 30s become less desirably it seems for most.
When I talk to my friends about it, my friends here in Ireland would agree that's it's great to have but isn't strictly necessary for a "happy" life. It seems Epicurus would agree somewhat. Yet my friends from Asian countries think sex is undoubtedly necessary for happiness placing it in the natural and necessary category. Is it simply a case that we are more influenced by Catholicism here in Europe and N.A.?
I wanted to make a new topic about another question as well. It seems so many young people (18-50) are just not having sex. Men but also women increasingly as well. I couldn't find the exact quote but it's something like "I can't distinguish the Good without sex, food etc.." Why do you think young people are leaving sex behind despite increasing secularization?
Would love too but the time doesn't work for me at the moment but hopefully be able to attend the virtual garden in the future.
I made a list of things I do each day and for me being outside and just chilling helps a lot with stress and anxiety. It is very true the less pain we have the more pleasure. It's experiential. Thanks for sharing music gonna listen to it to relax before bed.
Ah, ChatGPT... Maybe I'm glass half full, but it could have been worse
Here are some specific problems I see...
4. Practice Mindfulness: Be present and mindful in your daily life. Savor the sensory experiences of the moment, whether it's enjoying a good meal, a beautiful sunset, or a conversation with a friend. (NOTE: While I agree that Epicurus calls us to "savor the sensory experienced of the moment," the use of the jargony "mindfulness" brings some baggage. Again, I'm not saying I disagree with the sentiment ChatGPT came up with for no. 4, but it could imply advocacy for specific forms of mindfulness meditation, etc.)
Mindfulness has been tagged out to everything, from working out to religions to Stoicism and even "corporate" mindfulness to increase productivity. It's funny that they choose to ignore they other 7 parts of the 8 fold path. Although I do believe it has some medicinal benefits, though lately reports are coming out that they are not as remarkable as was made out in the early 2000-2017 ish.
I become big into mental wellbeing as a major source of my own life of pleasure though, I just dislike how mindfulness has become THE Answer, which for many it's not. One of the major sources of my mental well-being is the Epicurean view of God and afterlife. No longer do I say "my body is a temple" instead "my body is a playground 
" Michel Onfray said that before I believe.
Living an Epicurean life in today's society can be a rewarding pursuit, as many of its core principles can be applied to modern life. Here are some practical ways to incorporate Epicurean philosophy into your contemporary lifestyle:
Remember that living an Epicurean life doesn't mean avoiding all forms of pleasure; rather, it encourages the pursuit of enduring and meaningful forms of pleasure while avoiding excessive and unnecessary desires. It's a philosophy that emphasizes balance, self-awareness, and the cultivation of a tranquil and contented life. Your interpretation and practice of Epicurean principles can be tailored to suit your own values and circumstances in today's society.
Although if I was to die, I would choose shepherds life.
Thanks Cassius, yes I think I was referring to numbness or the exaggerated of some idealistic state of tranquility, rather than a concrete phenomenological state. Also I would still rather be Epicurus for a week (assuming I return to myself after this week) as I would learn how to live joyfully in the midst of extreme pain which could help me later on.
I actually changed my opinion on this, the lack of pain alone is actually still painful because it still an absence of pleasure. We are made to be filled with pleasure so the very lack of it is actually painful, I had this acutely after having a small procedure I was in basically a non state but then I remembered there is no non state it's always either pleasure or pain so the very absence of any pleasure DESPITE being completely pain free ended up being painful to me. So in the end I would be Epicurus for a week despite his pain.
Maybe a cheeky answer but I'd live as epicurus and hide a lot of my writings in somewhere I know they would be found 2400 years later
That's a good point, reminds me of the joke when the doctor saves some ones child the parents say "thank God" instead of thanking the doctor who did 12 hour surgery. Thanks to everyone on this forum
A key thing for me and maybe this isn't an Epicurean idea but I think it really is.
With philosophy I don't have to add meaning to things that happen, as if it's sort of part of some design. When something bad or good happens I am not being punished or rewarded it's something that happens in which I am experiencing pleasure or pain that is it. It's freeing, it allows to deal with the problem at hand or to experience the pleasure freely without a need to thank anyone.
