Posts by Matt

Should I move my something and nothing comments to a new thread? I could legitimately discuss this all day.

I guess it stands to “reason” that all things come from something. Even creation in the biblical sense and in many other myths is not truly ex nihilo.

“In the beginning (pre-existing object) created the heaven and the earth.”

All things must have previously existed from eternity. Based on Parmenidean principles...if the universe exists it exists from eternity (in whatever form). And since something DOES exist, since even one atom exists, the concept of nothing is upended.

This is not to say that void does not exist, void and nothing are conceptually different. Void conceptually is the “space” between “things”.

Nothing comes from nothing...this is surely getting deep now.

I feel Parmenides bursting out saying “this is my thing folks!”

“And it’s my thing because my “thing” is something, and that which is no “thing” cannot be since some “thing”already is. Nothing cannot be!”

I believe Parmenides held that the universe must always be, because it exists. If nothing existed, there would be no universe. But since something “is” then nothing cannot be.

I used to get very serious dizzy spells when I was a little kid, I don’t know if it was an inner ear thing or what, but it seems to have subsided when I turned 12 or so and I used to get some serious headaches but fortunately now they seem to be manageable just with ibuprofen.

But even though we experience pain, we can still have plenty of pleasure!

This idea of chronic pain and illness is definitely key to us understanding why pleasure is the end.

Recently I was very ill. Though it was very brief it reminded me that I take for granted the pleasures I’m accustomed to. I lost my sense of taste and smell, fortunately it’s back at about 80%, nowhere near perfect. But for some it can be permanent.

During the time I was “away” from Epicurean living, I still was often reminded of its truth. But I think my recent illness and the time I spent meditating on the nature of things and how I desired to “feel” normal exceeded any metaphysical ideal or philosophy.

Having an illness may make a person no longer take for granted that pleasure is critical to a healthy mind and body. Kind of an Epicurean revelation or epiphany!

A few years ago, I had a ridiculous accident where I destroyed my knee and also severed a nerve in my leg, giving me a permanent limp, like an Epicurean Epictetus. Lol

I needed multiple surgeries, nerve grafts and finally a tendon transfer. All these things were very depressing and painful. I suppose I could’ve been swayed to become a Stoic had I met that philosophy first. Coincidentally during that time I discovered EP and the EP group on FB. I think that the things that I absorbed during that time from conversations and reading epicurean materials absolutely got me through that difficult time.

I’ll definitely want to discuss this with you, I’m just getting into bed now, but I’ll be on tomorrow. Very good topic.

No matter what, this acceptance of terribly spurious data and false claims are clearly contributing to the deterioration of critical thinking in the general population.

Now whole “mythologies” have been created based on random (untrue) information, simply because these claims are posted and reposted a hundred thousand times in “bubbled off” echo chambers where confirmation bias has blossomed into radical behavior...on a grand scale in society.

Elayne yes that was a good article. Glad you saw it!

What’s interesting though is what happens when the things a person falsely suspects to be true are proven false? Many times, based on my tried an true observations of people I know, they simply “move on” without concern. Or they will backpedal and try to distance themselves from what they claimed. But the behavior doesn’t change...just on to the next “theory.”

I think the context in this case is that it has to do with people perceiving that there are connections when there aren’t any actual “objective” connections at all.

Random events pointing to large scale conspiracies that ultimately do not exist.

For example (this is a REAL example)... actual seismic activity + military activity in certain areas +power outages = Secret underground enemy base being destroyed by a military weapon...in Northern Maine USA. This was a claim that people were accepting.

In most normal cases apophenia would be a good thing. But I suppose if the connections are not actually there and they continue to be perceived incorrectly over and over again, that means the data is bad.

So I pulled this from an article:

“Apophenia: the tendency to perceive a connection or meaningful pattern between unrelated or random things (such as objects or ideas).”

I see this as one of the cruxes of how conspiracy theories and “malinformation” are spreading today online and on social media. I see this from an Epicurean perspective as a failure to analyze data properly.

We can see that many people have unfounded opinions about a whole host of things, based on anecdotal claims from extremely unreliable sources. The “information” is created at random and then disseminated to the social media users (often with very little restriction). The users then absorb the information and then they disseminate it to even more users, so that the information spreads exponentially.

On a personal note...I’ve heard some “humdingers” lately. Really unbelievable claims, from people I considered to be of somewhat sound mind. I believe multiple factors are involved to include social isolation...but it appears this “acceptance” of false narratives seems to be evolving.

Of course this forum is probably the most healthy form of social media going. A philosophical forum among friends discussing pleasure.

This is the right way.😎

On the subject of healthy social media usage and interaction for Epicureans living in modern times.

How should an Epicurean living in modern times “behave” while interacting with these new technological advances and media platforms? And how should we react to the unhealthy behavior of others?

We see (in the US) that there is a “political” situation going on, but my personal contention is that it is NOT entirely “a black and white” political issue, but rather an unprecedented mental health issue that is on a grand scale. Not only in the US, but worldwide. It could be theorized that much of the turbulence is due to the unhealthy usage of social media for the last 20 years or so. As it has evolved without much regulation to keep things from getting out of control from those who created the platforms.

We see so many people so fixated on certain narratives, many of which are unsubstantiated, that we must wonder had they not been addicted to the social media feedback loops and echo chambers, would they be seizing their own pleasure now? Doing pleasurable activities of their choosing?

As opposed to miserably spending an inordinate amount of time getting worked up over other people’s agendas, conspiracies, fiery rhetoric etc. reposting and promulgating false claims and hoaxes. Feeding a monstrous machine of confusion.

Many of us having family and friends who are now smack in the middle of this behavior, may now believe it is time to seriously address the issue at hand: Unhealthy social media usage.

Perhaps a bit of serious parrhesia for the overall health of our society at large? Because we are all feeling the effects of other people’s obsessions now and it’s causing disruption to our happiness not only online...but offline.

Well I’m happy that we are hashing this out. 😂

I personally understand the specifics, but I understand that it is necessary to differentiate for someone who might get confused by using both happiness and pleasure as the goal. When getting down to very specific details.

In the end it's always best to say pleasure. I agree.

One thing I will say is that the word "happiness" has a certain impact just in causal conversation, not necessarily splitting hairs in an analytical type discussion like we are having. I'm using it in a very casual sense. You all (I'm certain) understood what I meant.

Like if I were to have a conversation with someone about what they want in life..."happiness" is very likely is going to be a word that is used in their response. Now that of course that opens the door into "how do we get there (to happiness)? And in that conversation we discuss how pleasure is the how you become happy.

But the average person usually isn't going to outright say in conversation (unless they are a closet hedonist) that they desire pleasure, they will more likely say they desire "happiness"... ultimately we all know they mean pleasure and pleasurable living, but the replacement word is "happiness."

I didn't mean to get into the weeds with this... but my "happiness" is entirely dependent on my pleasurable living.

Happiness is a fairly abstract concept that also loses a significant amount of meaning since it is over used. But my usage of it is describing my state of being while experiencing pleasure.

But the general state of "happiness" would be dependent on if I am living pleasurably. To be specific...PLEASURE is the end, but my general state of having pleasure makes me "happy." For lack of a better word. Elated? Joyous? Content?

I am "pleasured" by a "pleasurable experience" in a state of "pleasurable feeling"...

Hahaha Don you have a sharp eye, I'll have to watch myself...yes they are one in the same. You can't be happy without pleasure, you cannot have pleasure and not be happy.

PLEASURE IS THE GOAL.

I would reply: On the tried and true observations of nature made by myself with my own senses and further bolstered by the testimonies of others who have spent their lives studying nature.

If the narrative of those who study nature (scientists) rapidly and unanimously shifts into a contrary model. More than just "adapting" some new ideas to ancient ones, to where doubt is raised to whether Nothing comes from Nothing or whether the Universe is infinite, then that might be a time where we need to reevaluate some things, but I believe as it stands currently the materialist model of the universe appears to be fairly consistent. Even with new discoveries.

If scientists are going to unanimously start preaching pantheism and creationism etc. presumably they will come bearing significant evidence? More so than anecdotal evidence from religionists.

But that hasn't happened yet, not as a unanimously agreed upon concept.

My position is this...pleasure is the goal. Happiness is the goal.

Knowledge of the natural world simply dispels fears arising from ignorance and of supernaturalism, so that a person can live a life that is unperturbed by turbulent thoughts.

The infinitude of the universe, whether there are theoretical bubble multiverses, expanding and contracting models or whatever is actually out there, is ultimately not critical to my personal pleasure here on Earth. The specifics of it anyway.

It may be incredibly poignant information from a scientific perspective, but from my Epicurean perspective, I only want to know that I need not fear supernaturalism and divine retribution and that the sun will not be extinguished if I don't perform certain prayers and sacrifices.

Scientific views of the universe evolve and have been evolving for hundreds of years. They will certainly evolve again as new things are discovered.

But as an Epicurean I only want to know enough to get the gist that the universe operates in a certain way , and that I need not be worried about speculative aspects of it.

And Charles absolutely! What is the “end” for the stoic practitioner? What is the goal of all this mental sharpening?

Not everyone ends up in a prisoner of war camp like Stockdale did. There are terribly tough times in life, but that does not negate the fact that there are an infinite number of possible pleasurable experiences in life. So to justify spending your life trying to repress your feelings and deny yourself pleasure to be able to deal “better” with tough times is preposterous.

In our worldview which aligns with nature it is pleasure. 😃 We are aligned with nature.

Isn’t it nice to not have to constantly be asking “sage” advice as to whether we should be drinking coffee or taking naps? Such preposterous stuff. Stoicism is baffling.