Posts by Cassius

**THIS WEEK IN EPICUREAN PHILOSOPHY - 08/01/2015***

** This is the one hundred and seventeenth in a series of weekly reports on news from the world of Epicurean Philosophy. Our home base for discussion is https://www.facebook.com/groups/EpicureanPhilosophy Copies of these posts, and links to active Epicurean websites, are stored at EpicurusCentral.wordpress.com, and other discussion cites are referenced at the end of this post.

** We welcome all participants and lurkers. If you apply to participate and don't receive a reply promptly, please send an email to an admin about your interest in the group. We are here to discuss Epicurean Philosophy, have fun, and in the words of Lucian, "strike a blow for Epicurus - that great man whose holiness and divinity of nature were not shams, who alone had and imparted true insight into the good, and who brought deliverance to all that consorted with him!"

** After several slow weeks in July we've had a burst of activity to start August. And credit for the most-commented post of the week (perhaps the full year!) goes to Cecil the lion and Elli: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…63686343680327/ This post of course covered the killing of Cecil the lion, but also covered a wide range of issues. Closely related to that post was this one, also by Elli, on another "big game" hunter: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…64879300227698/ And also related was "The Hidden History of Greco-Roman Vegetarianism": https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…64171380298490/

** In other posts:

** My "Action As A Requirement of Pleasure" https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…62580217124273/

**In another animal post, Alexander R. on dolphins: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…62814547100840/

**Elli prepared a new graphic to mark the discovery of an earth-like planet in another galaxy: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…62814870434141/

**Douglas M.da.S. asked about "An Archaeology of Ataraxia" https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…63011853747776/

**Elli posted an excellent essay on Christianity by Emma Goldman: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…62591103789851/

**Elli prepared a new graphic on a comment by Nietzsche about Epicurus: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…63303370385291/

**Hiram linked to a video about Epicurus on Friendship: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…63713037010991/

**Domagoj started a thread on Epicurean political thought: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…62838913765070/

**Hiram linked to an article on "meaning" as healthier than "happiness" https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…63468200368808/

**Elli created an excellent graphic based on a passage from Lucian on the importance of clear thinking. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…64038543645107/

**Richard A started a thread on Buddha, Epicurus, and Lao Tse: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…64521853596776/

**I started an article on "Purging Yourself of Stoicism" based on an article Domagoj sent my way: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…64925646889730/

**Thanks to all who participated in the Facebook forum this week. As always, if you have any comments, questions, or suggestions, please add a comment or participate in the Epicurean Philosophy Facebook Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/EpicureanPhilosophy/ or hop around the internet world of Epicurean Philosophy by checking the links here: EpicurusCentral.wordpress.com
*
Live Well!
Cassius Amicus

**Options for those who wish to discuss Epicurus on the internet include:

1- If you are someone whose views are fully formed, and you've combined several disparate viewpoints into your own personal mix, and you mainly want to talk casually to other people of the same eclectic type, there are several excellent facebook groups including EPISTOBUZEN and "Epicureanism for Modern Times" that you can find by searching facebook.

2- If you are focused primarily on Epicurus, and you want to participate in a forum where people will defend Epicurus strongly from all challenges, then you have two Facebook options. Our open and main group, entitled simply "Epicurean Philosophy," is the home base of this post. Anyone can read the posts there, and all you have to do is ask in order to join. (Note that there is an "About" and a "Sticky" post with our forum rules.)

3 - If you prefer to post in a "private" group where your posts are not readable by outsiders, we have "Epicurean Private Garden." Because it is a private group, you cannot find it by searching, and you have to email one of our admins in the open group if you wish to join. Please note that our About and Sticky Post rules in the private forum are the same as the open forum, and the private forum will be moderated to the same standards as the open forum (or perhaps slightly tighter!)

4 - If you are not only focused primarily on Epicurus, but you wish to assist with a forum platform where pro-Epicurean activists can build for the future, check out https://www.epicureanfriends.com/www.EpicureanFriends.com. Work is starting on a FAQ and other resources. Anyone can read the posts, but only approved members can create new posts or comment.

**THIS WEEK IN EPICUREAN PHILOSOPHY - 07/25/2015***

** This is the one hundred and sixteenth in a series of weekly reports on news from the world of Epicurean Philosophy. Our home base for discussion is https://www.facebook.com/groups/EpicureanPhilosophy Copies of these posts, and links to active Epicurean websites, are stored at EpicurusCentral.wordpress.com, and other discussion cites are referenced at the end of this post.

** We welcome all participants and lurkers. If you apply to participate and don't receive a reply promptly, please send an email to an admin about your interest in the group. We are here to discuss Epicurean Philosophy, have fun, and in the words of Lucian, "strike a blow for Epicurus - that great man whose holiness and divinity of nature were not shams, who alone had and imparted true insight into the good, and who brought deliverance to all that consorted with him!"

** The summer continues to be a little slow, but we had a number of good discussions (see below) even as events in Greece reduced in intensity from a boil to a simmer. Here are the highlights of the past week:

**Samej D. linked to "Naturalistic Traditions: Were Epicurus and the Atomists Naturalistic?"
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…59221737460121/

**Hiram posted to an article that needed deconstructing entitled "We Never Really Die...." https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…59041297478165/

**This past week contained the Twentieth of July, and commemorations were posted by me (https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…59886300726998/ ) and one of our most reliable long-term observers of the Twentieth: Steve K.: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…60295227352772/ Steve K's gets the award for widest interest, as his graphic of seasoned french fries was accompanied by the title "Sex-pectations: The Problem With Having Sex...."

**Also on the Twentieth, I linked to an article with some sligh (or unintentional humor) about Greeks trusting banks. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…59930244055937/

**Elli reminded us of an older post on the difference between Stoicism and Epicurean philosophy. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…60515347330760/

**Samej D. linked to a video that in the end had a good message I think Epicurus would have endorsed: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…61297047252590/

**Yiannis T. linked to an article on Alan Watts and Acceptance of Death. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…61470477235247/

**Elli posted new graphics with a cite to Lucretius Book 1: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…61811883867773/

**Winning the "most commented post of the week" award was Elli in her post about Angela Merkel and religion: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…60723947309900/

**And topping off the week was a graphic of Epicurus superimposed on a Greek flag, with commentary we'll need a translator to understand.

**Thanks to all who participated in the Facebook forum this week. As always, if you have any comments, questions, or suggestions, please add a comment or participate in the Epicurean Philosophy Facebook Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/EpicureanPhilosophy/ or hop around the internet world of Epicurean Philosophy by checking the links here: EpicurusCentral.wordpress.com
*
Live Well!
Cassius Amicus
**Options for those who wish to discuss Epicurus on the internet include:
1- If you are someone whose views are fully formed, and you've combined several disparate viewpoints into your own personal mix, and you mainly want to talk casually to other people of the same eclectic type, there are several excellent facebook groups including EPISTOBUZEN and "Epicureanism for Modern Times" that you can find by searching facebook.
2- If you are focused primarily on Epicurus, and you want to participate in a forum where people will defend Epicurus strongly from all challenges, then you have two Facebook options. Our open and main group, entitled simply "Epicurean Philosophy," is the home base of this post. Anyone can read the posts there, and all you have to do is ask in order to join. (Note that there is an "About" and a "Sticky" post with our forum rules.)
3 - If you prefer to post in a "private" group where your posts are not readable by outsiders, we have "Epicurean Private Garden." Because it is a private group, you cannot find it by searching, and you have to email one of our admins in the open group if you wish to join. Please note that our About and Sticky Post rules in the private forum are the same as the open forum, and the private forum will be moderated to the same standards as the open forum (or perhaps slightly tighter!)
4 - If you are not only focused primarily on Epicurus, but you wish to assist with a forum platform where pro-Epicurean activists can build for the future, check out https://www.epicureanfriends.com/www.EpicureanFriends.com. Work is starting on a FAQ and other resources. Anyone can read the posts, but only approved members can create new posts or comment.

http://newepicurean.com/peace-and-safe…ieth-of-july-2/

Peace and Safety to the Epicureans of today, no matter where you might be!

Vatican Saying 45: “The study of nature does not create men who are fond of boasting and chattering or who show off the culture that impresses the many, but rather men who are strong and self-sufficient, and who take pride in their own personal qualities not in those that depend on external circumstances.”

We seem to be in the midst of a long hot summer here in the Northern Hemisphere, and the season is far from over. Across the globe troubles are breaking out in almost every corner, and the Epicurean homeland in Greece is ground zero for financial earthquakes that threaten to spread across Europe, if not the globe.

It can be discouraging to watch the news every day and see how little the world has learned from Epicurus. Our leadership class is as fond as ever of boasting and chattering, but most of all they wish to show off their “culture” that impresses the many, rather than showing off their understanding of the truth about the nature of things. Religion and mainstream philosophy have united to create a political orthodoxy from which no dissent is allowed, and those that do dissent are demonized. Almost every position legitimately traceable to Epicurus (as opposed to spurious “grin and bear it” positions of his Stoic rivals) is dismissed as anti-social heresy, and few understand the Epicurean doctrines well enough to even begin to think about applying them.

“Living simply” is widely endorsed as political and social orthodoxy despite the explicit rejection of this interpretation in VS 63: “There is also a limit in simple living, and he who fails to understand this falls into an error as great as that of the man who gives way to extravagance.”

And so one can read endlessly on the internet, endlessly looking for insight from Epicurus, until one is left with the gloomy conclusion that the brilliant subtlety of his philosophy has been mashed into incoherence into “what’s good is easy to get and what’s terrible is easy to avoid” – as if this should be taken at face value as the height of wisdom.

But does all this mean that we should despair that all is lost, and that we are helpless prisoners of religion and the stoic denial of pleasure and emotion? Not at all.

There is no reason that we ourselves cannot become people “who are strong and self-sufficient, and who take pride in their own personal qualities not in those that depend on external circumstances.” While this may mean that we must temporarily or permanently put aside our dreams of unlimited personal luxury and worldwide brotherly love, we need to remember that such goals as these have always been pie-in-the-sky imaginings and never our birthright. The later ancient Epicureans saw their own world collapse around them, as overzealous religionists destroyed the Greco-Roman civilization under which they flourished, so what we are going through today is not unique to us. Although our civilization may meet the same end, individually we have many advantages in science and technology and communication that the ancient Epicureans never dreamed of having. We can – and must – use these tools to stay in touch with each other, to study true philosophy, and fill our days with pleasures that are within our control.

In almost any circumstance we may confront, we should keep in mind that “The benefits of other activities come only to those who have already become, with great difficulty, complete masters of such pursuits, but in the study of philosophy pleasure accompanies growing knowledge; for pleasure does not follow learning; rather, learning and pleasure advance side by side.” [VS27]

We may find ourselves with a front seat for watching the collapse of Western Civilization, but so long as we can, we should study and apply the insights that Epicurus left us. It may be a lonely path, but it has always been – and always will be – the path that Nature created for us.

And to the day we die – no matter how or when that will be – we ought to remember Epicurus with the same respect and admiration that Lucretius wrote about:

WHO is able with powerful genius to frame a poem worthy of the grandeur of the things and these discoveries? Or who is so great a master of words as to be able to devise praises equal to the deserts of him who left to us such prizes won and earned by his own genius? None, methinks, who is formed of mortal body. For if we must speak as the acknowledged grandeur of the things itself demands, a god he was, a god, most noble Memmius, who first found out that plan of life which is now termed wisdom, and who by trained skill rescued life from such great billows and such thick darkness and moored it in so perfect a calm and in so brilliant a light.
…
But unless the breast is cleared, what battles and dangers must then find their way into us in our own despite! What poignant cares inspired by lust then rend the distressful man, and then also what mighty fears! And pride, filthy lust and wantonness? What disasters they occasion! And luxury and all sorts of sloth?

He therefore who shall have subdued all these and banished them from the mind by words, not arms, shall he not have a just title to be ranked among the gods?
– Lucretius Book V (Munro)

*THIS WEEK IN EPICUREAN PHILOSOPHY - 07/18/2015***

** This is the one hundred and fifteenth in a series of weekly reports on news from the world of Epicurean Philosophy. Our home base for discussion is https://www.facebook.com/groups/EpicureanPhilosophyCopies of these posts, and links to active Epicurean websites, are stored atEpicurusCentral.wordpress.com, and other discussion cites are referenced at the end of this post.

** We welcome all participants and lurkers. If you apply to participate and don't receive a reply promptly, please send an email to an admin about your interest in the group. We are here to discuss Epicurean Philosophy, have fun, and in the words of Lucian, "strike a blow for Epicurus - that great man whose holiness and divinity of nature were not shams, who alone had and imparted true insight into the good, and who brought deliverance to all that consorted with him!"

** Summers have a tendency to be slower times for philosophy discussions, as Epicureans fill the warmer months with the activities of pleasant living, rather than dreaming up abstractions to change the world. Nevertheless this week we had several interesting threads, including:

**A discussion of the excerpt from Diogenes Laertius that emotion is no hindrance to wisdom.https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…56496011066027/

**Hiram's post on Vatican Saying 28:https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…56908897691405/

**Hiram's setting up of an Epicurean Discusion at Disqus.com:https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…57032424345719/

**Hiram's post on "An Epicurean Case for Pastafari"https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…57763510939277/

**My post on warning against taking superficially a saying of Marcus Aurelius:https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…56880601027568/

**Hiram's link to an article on "The self-deception of the intentionally childless."https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…57820014266960/

**Brent Rivera linked to "The Importance of Eating Together" which Epicurus surely would have endorsed:https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…56491324399829/

**Elli created a new graphic on PD32 and the nature of justice:https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…57952624253699/

**Hiram linked to "Philosophy Core Concepts - Epicurus on Mental and Bodily Pleasures"https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…58728097509485/

**And then, in our most-commented post of the week, the we discussed how to view the news about the ISIS child decapitating the Syrian soldier from an Epicurean perspective:https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…58665174182444/

**Then, just before press time, Hiram posted a link to "The Science Behind Eternal Consc iousness" which Ilkka handled with a swift reference to Victor Stenger.https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…59041297478165/

**Thanks to all who participated in the Facebook forum this week. As always, if you have any comments, questions, or suggestions, please add a comment or participate in the Epicurean Philosophy Facebook Grouphttps://www.facebook.com/groups/EpicureanPhilosophy/ or hop around the internet world of Epicurean Philosophy by checking the links here:EpicurusCentral.wordpress.com
*
Live Well!
Cassius Amicus
**Options for those who wish to discuss Epicurus on the internet include:
1- If you are someone whose views are fully formed, and you've combined several disparate viewpoints into your own personal mix, and you mainly want to talk casually to other people of the same eclectic type, there are several excellent facebook groups including EPISTOBUZEN and "Epicureanism for Modern Times" that you can find by searching facebook.
2- If you are focused primarily on Epicurus, and you want to participate in a forum where people will defend Epicurus strongly from all challenges, then you have two Facebook options. Our open and main group, entitled simply "Epicurean Philosophy," is the home base of this post. Anyone can read the posts there, and all you have to do is ask in order to join. (Note that there is an "About" and a "Sticky" post with our forum rules.)
3 - If you prefer to post in a "private" group where your posts are not readable by outsiders, we have "Epicurean Private Garden." Because it is a private group, you cannot find it by searching, and you have to email one of our admins in the open group if you wish to join. Please note that our About and Sticky Post rules in the private forum are the same as the open forum, and the private forum will be moderated to the same standards as the open forum (or perhaps slightly tighter!)
4 - If you are not only focused primarily on Epicurus, but you wish to assist with a forum platform where pro-Epicurean activists can build for the future, check out https://www.epicureanfriends.com/ Work is starting on a FAQ and other resources. Anyone can read the posts, but only approved members can create new posts or comment.

**THIS WEEK IN EPICUREAN PHILOSOPHY - 07/11/2015***

** This is the one hundred and fourteenth in a series of weekly reports on news from the world of Epicurean Philosophy. Our home base for discussion ishttps://www.facebook.com/groups/EpicureanPhilosophyCopies of these posts, and links to active Epicurean websites, are stored atEpicurusCentral.wordpress.com, and other discussion cites are referenced at the end of this post.

** We welcome all participants and lurkers. If you apply to participate and don’t receive a reply promptly, please send an email to an admin about your interest in the group. We are here to discuss Epicurean Philosophy, have fun, and in the words of Lucian, “strike a blow for Epicurus – that great man whose holiness and divinity of nature were not shams, who alone had and imparted true insight into the good, and who brought deliverance to all that consorted with him!”

** The attention of Greece and its friends around the world continues to center on the financial crisis. Before linking to our major posts on that subject, this is a good time to remember that while Epicurean philosophy provides the essential basis for analyzing questions like this properly, it does not at all guarantee that each of us will reach the same answers. In the civil war that tore apart the Roman Republic, Caesar’s father-in-law, and perhaps Caesar himself, were identified as holding at least some Epicurean views, while Cassius Longinus, one of the prime leaders of the rebellion, was also Epicurean. Any review of the last ten principal doctrines of Epicurus reveals that it is a bedrock principal that there is no “absolute justice,” and that “justice” is going to differ with time and place and people involved. That’s because there *is* no absolute standard of “right” and “wrong” that applies everywhere and at all times. Each person is born with life, “free will,” and the faculty of pleasure and pain, and it is only by this faculty of pleasure that anyone knows that which is truly desirable for him.
Epicurus said, “For I at least do not even know what I should conceive the good to be, if I eliminate the pleasures of taste, and eliminate the pleasures of sex, and eliminate the pleasures of listening, and eliminate the pleasant motions caused in our vision by a visible form.” This means that “the good” does not exist in a divine dictate from the gods; nor does it exist in some ideal platonic form in another dimension. “The good” for each of us is what our own faculty of pleasure tells us is pleasing to us in our own experience. Individual experiences are going to differ dramatically, and it is to be expected that different people will pursue their own desires in different ways.

So in my view, it is not possible to say that a devoted Epicurean would want to agree with the Troika and preserve the existing Greek status in the European Union, any more than it is possible to say that a devoted Epicurean would wish to exit the Euro, start printing drachmas, and follow a totally new course. Each of us have our views on which course would be best. But here is where I think it IS possible to say something about an Epicurean viewpoint, and how the Epicurean would be distinguished from other viewpoints.
It is core Epicurean doctrine that Gods do not interfere with our lives, and death is nothingness to us. That means that THIS life is all we have; that we are not going to heaven or hell after death, and that if we are going to experience any joy and delight it is going to be in THIS lifetime. And thus we must live our lives to the fullest possible to us – as we have no other. We must “seize the day.”

In contrast to this, a fascinating article was posted this past week entitled “Putting the Greek Back in Stoicism.” It was linked and discussed in our group here:https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…52929258089369/Reading the article is extremely enlightening for what it suggests the Greeks should do in this time of crisis. If you’ve ever wanted an example of the “stick-your-head-in-the-sand” attitude at the bottom of Stoicism, this is a good article to see it. It makes a couple of platitudinous points which are worth pointing out, with comment:

• Focus on things you can control – get over things that you cannot control <<< “Get over them” means what? forget about them? Epicurus advises study of all issues, including death and the gods.

• Bear in mind that things could have been worse << Nothing I can find about thinking about things being worse… Instead, the focus is on action to create a better life: “PD16. Chance seldom interferes with the wise man; his greatest and highest interests have been, are, and will be, directed by reason throughout his whole life.”

• Learn self-control through occasional acts of self-denial. << And this one again confuses a tool “selfcontrol” with the end – pleasure. Learning self control for the sake of self control leads in a circle to nothing. And in the meantime, the supposed wisdom of the men cited in the article is NOT leading toward happiness in any ordinarily understandable version of that term as related to pleasurable living. Instead, if you listen to them, the goal is as far from pleasure as one could hope to find.

Even when sanitized in modern jargon, the poison is still there – buried just beneath the surface. Instead of “study nature and learn to live pleasurably” the emphasis is on “close your eyes and you’re one step closer to complete anesthesia.”

A similar list posted in another link can be used to illustrate the same point. In a video entitled “The Secrets of Happiness” we see “happiness” as defined by someone who is focusing on the absence of pain, rather than the pursuit of pleasure.https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…55227731192855/
I summarized these, again with comment, in the following list:
1) “Stop being so hopeful – expect that most things are going to go wrong.” No. Focus on pleasant living as your goal, act intelligently and rationally to deal with your circumstances and attain the pleasure that is possible and that can be gained without excessive pain, and in **most** cases (not all) you have reasonable grounds for confidence of success.
2) “Stop ranting about how awful other people are – most annoying people aren’t evil, they’re just anxious or sad.” Another presciption for disaster. Look at people realistically, and see whether in fact they are “having a bad day” or they belong to ISIS.
3) “Think of death a lot. Keep a skull on your desk.” Ridiculous,. There is no point in being morbid. Think of death AS appropriate – which is when you need to remember that life is short, that your time is important, and that the time you waste spouting platitudes like this list is gone forever..
4)”Laugh at yourself – think of yourself as a loveable fool.” See response to item 3. Laughing is appropriate, but taking your life unseriously is not. it’s the only one you have.
5) “Talk to yourself – ask yourself what you really want.” This one is arguably decent but if you work to ground yourself in a firm philosophy like Epicurus advised, it won’t be so necessary to reinvent the wheel every time something even a little bad happens.
6) “Stop trying to make yourself happy. It’s impossible. Make others happy.” Pure Stoicism. Happiness isn’t important, and the implication is that it is bad to pursue it.
7) “Look at yourself from outer space. From this height all your problems are small.” In other words, look at yourself from the perspective of a non-existent god or a non-existent Platonist philosopher king. You, and your problems, are nothing in the “great scheme of things.” The trouble is, as Epicurus pointed out, there IS no “great scheme” of things. Your life is all you have, and if you don’t deal with your problems intelligently, and not by minimizing them, you lose the only life you have.
“Throw your phone off a cliff.” Another veiled suggested to drop out, tune out, and turn off. And why not, when you have an eternity in heaven after you’re dead? Or, from the perspective of this video, you’re a worm anyway that is of total insignificance, so who cares what you learn on the phone.
9) “Give up the idea that you should be normal. Everyone one is weird, and that’s totally ok.” In other words, it’s totally Ok if your neighbor joins ISIS.
These are the Secrets of HAPPINESS? Not for a minute. They are the secrets of manipulating others into thinking you are praising happiness while you are in truth preaching asceticism, austerity, self-denial, pain, and the renunciation of every bit of pleasure that life calls you to pursue.
So to return to the theme of this introduction, I think it is entirely possible for someone of Epicurean disposition to look at his or her situation within Greece and reach entirely different conclusions as to what direction will lead to maximum net pleasure for them. But whichever choices an Epicurean makes, he or she should pursue them with vigor and every weapon of intellect available, because life is short, the night is long, and for all the rest of eternity we experience nothing. As Horace said, we must “seize the day.”
**In other posts this week:
** Hiram posted to “Meditation changes your brain for the better”https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…53925201323108/and “depression makes your brain smaller”https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…53925681323060/
** Hiram also posted “Cosma Raimondi – The Rebirth of Epicurean Fervor”https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…53925681323060/And speaking of Cosma Raimondi, I posted on him as well:https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…54324044616557/
** The Society of Epicurus posted an interesting link on “Are you sure you’re an epicure?”https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…54297894619172/
** I posted an article entitled “The Real Troika”https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…54403071275321/
** Hiram posted “Cultivating the Mind of An Epicurus”https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…55137464535215/
** Hiram posted another “welcome new members” thread, which we encourage all new members to participate in:https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…55571464491815/
** Our latest discussions on the Greek crisis took place mostly here:https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…55149411200687/
**Hiram posted to an interesting article on “Proposing an Objective Morality”https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…56141804434781/
**Thanks to all who participated the the Facebook forum this week. As always, if you have any comments, questions, or suggestions, please add a comment or participate in the Epicurean Philosophy Facebook Grouphttps://www.facebook.com/groups/EpicureanPhilosophy/ or hop around the internet world of Epicurean Philosophy by checking the links here:EpicurusCentral.wordpress.com
*
Live Well!
Cassius Amicus
**Options for those who wish to discuss Epicurus on the internet include:
1- If you are someone whose views are fully formed, and you’ve combined several disparate viewpoints into your own personal mix, and you mainly want to talk casually to other people of the same eclectic type, there are several excellent facebook groups including EPISTOBUZEN and “Epicureanism for Modern Times” that you can find by searching facebook.
2- If you are focused primarily on Epicurus, and you want to participate in a forum where people will defend Epicurus strongly from all challenges, then you have two Facebook options. Our open and main group, entitled simply “Epicurean Philosophy,” is the home base of this post. Anyone can read the posts there, and all you have to do is ask in order to join. (Note that there is an “About” and a “Sticky” post with our forum rules.)
3 – If you prefer to post in a “private” group where your posts are not readable by outsiders, we have “Epicurean Private Garden.” Because it is a private group, you cannot find it by searching, and you have to email one of our admins in the open group if you wish to join. Please note that our About and Sticky Post rules in the private forum are the same as the open forum, and the private forum will be moderated to the same standards as the open forum (or perhaps slightly tighter!)
4 – If you are not only focused primarily on Epicurus, but you wish to assist with a forum platform where pro-Epicurean activists can build for the future, check outhttps://www.epicureanfriends.com/ Work is starting on a FAQ and other resources. Anyone can read the posts, but only approved members can create new posts or comment.

**THIS WEEK IN EPICUREAN PHILOSOPHY - 07/4/2015***

** This is the one hundred and thirteenth in a series of weekly reports on news from the world of Epicurean Philosophy. Our home base for discussion ishttps://www.facebook.com/groups/EpicureanPhilosophyCopies of these posts, and links to active Epicurean websites, are stored atEpicurusCentral.wordpress.com, and other discussion cites are referenced at the end of this post.

** We welcome all participants and lurkers. If you apply to participate and don’t receive a reply promptly, please send an email to an admin about your interest in the group. We are here to discuss Epicurean Philosophy, have fun, and in the words of Lucian, “strike a blow for Epicurus – that great man whose holiness and divinity of nature were not shams, who alone had and imparted true insight into the good, and who brought deliverance to all that consorted with him!”
**In followup to last week, events in the homeland of Epicurus are heating up fast. Tomorrow is the referendum that regardless of outcome appears to have important implications for the future of Greece. Posts on this topic include:

Elli transcribed into English and uploaded a complete copy of an article by George Kaplanis entitled “The Crisis And Epicurean Logic”https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…51735744875387/

Posts on the referendum itself:https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…49919888390306/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…51606884888273/

Elli’s post on commentary by a UN Human Rights expert:https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…51749811540647/

Elli’s post on a cite to Nietzsche:https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…51152371600391/
My post relating a passage from Lucretius on difficult times:https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…52247128157582/

My post on “no fate but what we make for ourselves”https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…52578868124408/

Elli’s post on PD39https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…53062798076015/

Other significant posts this week include:

Hiram’s post on “a ship is safe in harbor”https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…50890291626599/

Hiram’s post on Paul as the great corrupter of the doctrines of Jesushttps://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…50890291626599/

** My post on a thread at the Epicurus page interpreting Epicurus with stoic overtones (the comments, that is)https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…50834738298821/
My post on coming up with a better version of VS14 which doesn’t refer to “leisure” (a word that does not appear in the text).https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…49918281723800/

** Hiram’s “How Religion is bad for ataraxia”https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…51802331535395/

**Hiram’s post on the Uberization of the economy.https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…51842461531382/

**Alexander’s link to an article on “fear and pleasure.”https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…52492028133092/
*
*Jakob AE. posted a copy of a thesis he wrote on hedonism:https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…52685454780416/

**I posted on the relative scarcity of modern interest in the Epicurean commentary on politics/justice, even though these consume almost 25% of the space in the Principal Doctrines.https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…52683688113926/

**Elli’s graphic on PD39https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…53062798076015/

**Thanks to all who participated the the Facebook forum this week. As always, if you have any comments, questions, or suggestions, please add a comment or participate in the Epicurean Philosophy Facebook Grouphttps://www.facebook.com/groups/EpicureanPhilosophy/ or hop around the internet world of Epicurean Philosophy by checking the links here:EpicurusCentral.wordpress.com
*
Live Well!
Cassius Amicus

**Options for those who wish to discuss Epicurus on the internet include:
1- If you are someone whose views are fully formed, and you’ve combined several disparate viewpoints into your own personal mix, and you mainly want to talk casually to other people of the same eclectic type, there are several excellent facebook groups including EPISTOBUZEN and “Epicureanism for Modern Times” that you can find by searching facebook.
2- If you are focused primarily on Epicurus, and you want to participate in a forum where people will defend Epicurus strongly from all challenges, then you have two Facebook options. Our open and main group, entitled simply “Epicurean Philosophy,” is the home base of this post. Anyone can read the posts there, and all you have to do is ask in order to join. (Note that there is an “About” and a “Sticky” post with our forum rules.)
3 – If you prefer to post in a “private” group where your posts are not readable by outsiders, we have “Epicurean Private Garden.” Because it is a private group, you cannot find it by searching, and you have to email one of our admins in the open group if you wish to join. Please note that our About and Sticky Post rules in the private forum are the same as the open forum, and the private forum will be moderated to the same standards as the open forum (or perhaps slightly tighter!)
4 – If you are not only focused primarily on Epicurus, but you wish to assist with a forum platform where pro-Epicurean activists can build for the future, check outhttp://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3…fx3yVxw&amp;s=1 Work is starting on a FAQ and other resources. Anyone can read the posts, but only approved members can create new posts or comment.

**THIS WEEK IN EPICUREAN PHILOSOPHY - 06/27/2015***

** This is the one hundred and twelfth in a series of weekly reports on news from the world of Epicurean Philosophy. Our home base for discussion is https://www.facebook.com/groups/EpicureanPhilosophy/ Copies of these posts, and links to active Epicurean websites, are stored at EpicurusCentral.wordpress.com, and other discussion cites are referenced at the end of this post.

** We welcome all participants and lurkers. If you apply to participate and don't receive a reply promptly, please send an email to an admin about your interest in the group. We are here to discuss Epicurean Philosophy, have fun, and in the words of Lucian, "strike a blow for Epicurus - that great man whose holiness and divinity of nature were not shams, who alone had and imparted true insight into the good, and who brought deliverance to all that consorted with him!"

**I am posting this Saturday night, as at this very moment things are reaching a crisis stage with the financial system in Greece. The topic is being discussed here https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…49919888390306/ and I hope our friends in Greece will keep us posted on developments in the coming days. Greece is the home of the most active group of Epicurean students anywhere in the world, and we certainly hope that they remain safe and sound as the crisis deepens.

**In other posts this week -

**Mark C. is a talented musician, and this week he posted a rough cut of a song he composed with on the theme of "death is nothing to us." It would be great to see Mark continue to work on this and develop other tunes with Epicurean themes. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…47431418639153/

**Carlos V. posted a link to an article about "Classics for the People - Why Whe Should All learn from the ancient Greeks" https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…47473258634969/

**Hiram posted a link to a video by PhilosophyIO, which Hiram indicates has been discussing Epicurus recently. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…48325318549763/ Once again you'll find there the standard confusing discussion of how "static" pleasures are to be preferred *over* "moving" pleasures. Sigh. You can see the speaker choke on trying to describe that at the 2:30 point, if you like.... "Nothing is really going on, but it's just really enjoyable." Don't be surprised if you find his explanation unimpressive.

**There was some significant followup conversation this week about Seneca's comments on "natural and necessary" desires. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…48288508553444/

**Here as a commentary post on the tetrapharmakon - https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…48994428482852/

**Hiram posted a link to an article he wrote on "against the common good." https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…49593331756295/

**I posted a link to an excellent video about a reconstruction of a Roman town in Portugal. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…49540255094936/

**This post discusses Vatican saying 14 and points out some improvements that could be made in the standard translations. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…49918281723800/

**And then today, I posted a video of a bear jumping into a swimming pool and used it to highlight several important issues in discussing pleasure. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…50038705045091/

**To end where we began, a lot is going on in Greece this week, and many of our Greek friends are focused on some issues of critical importance to their future. Hopefully we'll receive updates as the crisis unfolds, and we wish our friends in the homeland of Epicurus well as they go through this difficult time.

**Thanks to all who participated the the Facebook forum this week. As always, if you have any comments, questions, or suggestions, please add a comment or participate in the Epicurean Philosophy Facebook Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/EpicureanPhilosophy/ or hop around the internet world of Epicurean Philosophy by checking the links here: EpicurusCentral.wordpress.com
*
Live Well!
Cassius Amicus
**Options for those who wish to discuss Epicurus on the internet include:
1- If you are someone whose views are fully formed, and you've combined several disparate viewpoints into your own personal mix, and you mainly want to talk casually to other people of the same eclectic type, there are several excellent facebook groups including EPISTOBUZEN and "Epicureanism for Modern Times" that you can find by searching facebook.
2- If you are focused primarily on Epicurus, and you want to participate in a forum where people will defend Epicurus strongly from all challenges, then you have two Facebook options. Our open and main group, entitled simply "Epicurean Philosophy," is the home base of this post. Anyone can read the posts there, and all you have to do is ask in order to join. (Note that there is an "About" and a "Sticky" post with our forum rules.)
3 - If you prefer to post in a "private" group where your posts are not readable by outsiders, we have "Epicurean Private Garden." Because it is a private group, you cannot find it by searching, and you have to email one of our admins in the open group if you wish to join. Please note that our About and Sticky Post rules in the private forum are the same as the open forum, and the private forum will be moderated to the same standards as the open forum (or perhaps slightly tighter!)
4 - If you are not only focused primarily on Epicurus, but you wish to assist with a forum platform where pro-Epicurean activists can build for the future, check out https://www.epicureanfriends.com/www.EpicureanFriends.com. Work is starting on a FAQ and other resources. Anyone can read the posts, but only approved members can create new posts or comment.

LM asked me a question on the NewEpicurean page, and I put some effort into the answer, so I am pasting it here:

LM - What does this mean? I really can't figure it out, unless he's referring to, for example, when we look back on a period of unrequited sexual desire that caused us great emotional pain at the time, and now we are glad that it is all in the past.
"The limit of mental pleasure, however, is reached when we reflect on these bodily pleasures and their related emotions, which used to cause the mind the greatest alarms."
Like · Reply · June 21 at 2:28pm · Edited

NewEpicurean: Leonard that is an excellent question and here is what I think: Epicurus was concerned about the LIMIT of pleasure because Plato had argued that nothing that is unlimited can be satisfied, and if pleasure is unlimited, then it cannot be the guide to life. Epicurus responded that pleasure DOES have a limit, and that limit occurs when all pain has been driven away, and we experience pleasures (ordinary pleasures, not something mystical or anesthesia) to the extent that is possible for us to experience physically. (Meaning, when the senses are full of pleasure and you experience nothing but the pure pleasure.) So that shows that bodily pleasures have a limit - once you are full of pleasure there is no increasing the quantity - all you do is vary the TYPE of pleasure, which is not an increase in quantity.

The same phenomena occurs with the mind. Your mind can be close to full of ordinary mental pleasures (again, nothing mystical, and not anesthesia) but so long as fear of death and fear of the gods remain, then you are not experiencing pure mental pleasure unmixed by pain. Looked at that way, this sentence from Epicurus is very simple: the limit of mental pleasure is when ALL fear and anxiety is removed, and the most hard-to-beat fears and anxieties that cause the greatest alarm are fear of gods and of death. Defeat those fears through study of nature - remove them from your mind entirely through study - and you can experience pure mental pleasure, unmixed with any pain. And that's the "limit" of mental pleasure - after that, quantity cannot be increased, it only varies.

All of this does not establish anything mystical at all - it simply shows that Plato was wrong, and that pleasure CAN be satisfied and used as the guide of life. Nothing mystical; nothing dark; simply a clear and practical analysis that Nature has made pleasure the guide to life.

Note: This is in reference to the post I started here, but the point is separate and deserves its own point: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…47094572006171/

**THIS WEEK IN EPICUREAN PHILOSOPHY - 06/20/2015***

** This is the one hundred and eleventh in a series of weekly reports on news from the world of Epicurean Philosophy. Our home base for discussion is https://www.facebook.com/groups/EpicureanPhilosophy/ Copies of these posts, and links to active Epicurean websites, are stored at EpicurusCentral.wordpress.com, and other discussion cites are referenced at the end of this post.

** We welcome all participants and lurkers. If you apply to participate and don't receive a reply promptly, please send an email to an admin about your interest in the group. We are here to discuss Epicurean Philosophy, have fun, and in the words of Lucian, "strike a blow for Epicurus - that great man whose holiness and divinity of nature were not shams, who alone had and imparted true insight into the good, and who brought deliverance to all that consorted with him!"

**Here are a few highlights from the week:

**Hiram and Panagiotis continued their series of memes for the 40 Doctrines, with this one on PD15 as to the limits of natural wealth. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…44868102228818/

**Hiram posted on "Epicureanism as a Religious Identity" https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…45023762213252/

**Hiram posted on the "fullness of pleasure" https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…45208155528146/

**Hiram posted on "The Epicurean Nag Hammadi" https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…45606728821622/

**Alexander posted a link to an article comparing the pleasures of sex and alcohol to the pleasures of religion and having children. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…45323132183315/

**Hiram posted a reminder of the resources we have posted in our files section: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…45412735507688/

**Hiram and Panagiotis posted a meme on PD16 and the role of reason: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…45730348809260/

**Hiram posted an interesting question on a passage from Cosma Raimondi on the "intention" of Nature: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…45726942142934/

**Elli posted an announcement that a third edition of "Epicurean Principal Doctriines - Tee Art of Wellbeing" by Christos Yapijakis was being issued - regretably only in Greek - https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…46012812114347/

**Hiram and Panagiotis posted a meme on PD16 - https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…44269815621980/

**Panagiotis posted a link to a Master's Thesis entitled "Epicurean Mission and Membership from the Early Garden to the Late-Roman Republic." I only had a chance to read part, but it appears excellent. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…46460398736255/

**Alexander posted a link to a new article on particle physics. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…46530102062618/

**Alexander also posted a link to an article on "Machine dreaming", linking it to the letter to Herodotus - https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…46538952061733/

**Hiram reminded us that "A Partially Examined Life" will be discussion "A Few Days In Athens" this Sunday https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…46544115394550/

**Hiram posted "Reasonings On Community" https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…46409045408057/

**Domagoj posted a link to an article by Jaakko Wallenius, who until his death was an active internet posted on Epicurean ideas. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…46092652106363/

**Today was the 20th and I posted a memorial: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…46816235367338/

**I also posted today a meme on Jefferson's statement of the calculation of pleasure https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…47052288677066/

**Last for the week as of this writing, I posted a blog entry on how a passage from Seneca illustrates the meaning of PD3. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…47094572006171/

**Thanks to all who participated the the Facebook forum this week. As always, if you have any comments, questions, or suggestions, please add a comment or participate in the Epicurean Philosophy Facebook Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/EpicureanPhilosophy/ or hop around the internet world of Epicurean Philosophy by checking the links here: EpicurusCentral.wordpress.com
*
Live Well!
Cassius Amicus

**Options for those who wish to discuss Epicurus on the internet include:

1- If you are someone whose views are fully formed, and you've combined several disparate viewpoints into your own personal mix, and you mainly want to talk casually to other people of the same eclectic type, there are several excellent facebook groups including EPISTOBUZEN and "Epicureanism for Modern Times" that you can find by searching facebook.

2- If you are focused primarily on Epicurus, and you want to participate in a forum where people will defend Epicurus strongly from all challenges, then you have two Facebook options. Our open and main group, entitled simply "Epicurean Philosophy," is the home base of this post. Anyone can read the posts there, and all you have to do is ask in order to join. (Note that there is an "About" and a "Sticky" post with our forum rules.)

3 - If you prefer to post in a "private" group where your posts are not readable by outsiders, we have "Epicurean Private Garden." Because it is a private group, you cannot find it by searching, and you have to email one of our admins in the open group if you wish to join. Please note that our About and Sticky Post rules in the private forum are the same as the open forum, and the private forum will be moderated to the same standards as the open forum (or perhaps slightly tighter!)

4 - If you are not only focused primarily on Epicurus, but you wish to assist with a forum platform where pro-Epicurean activists can build for the future, check out https://www.epicureanfriends.com/www.EpicureanFriends.com. Work is starting on a FAQ and other resources. Anyone can read the posts, but only approved members can create new posts or comment.

I've been looking for a more understandable version of Horace's Ode III,29, where he discusses "fortune" and how to deal with it in Epicurean terms. I now see Peter St. Andre has done a version. Here's a key part and the full translation is at the link:

Joyous and self-possessed is the life of he
Who each day can say: "I have lived — tomorrow
The Father may fill the sky with black storm-clouds
Or purest sunshine,

Yet even so he can't upset what is past:
He can't complete or alter or make undone
Whatever the fleeting hour has once produced."
For haughty Fortune,

Full poem: https://stpeter.im/writings/fire/horace3_29.html

"This Aegean Storm"
(Horace, Odes III.29)
translated by Peter Saint-Andre

Maecenas, descended from Etruscan kings,
Smooth wine not yet opened and blooming roses
And fragrant hair oils have long been ready
For you at my house.
Break free from all hindrances: do not always
Contemplate the humid Tibur, Aefula's
Sloping fields, and the ridge of that parricide
Old Telegonus;
Forsaking loathsome wealth and sky-high power,
Shaking your head at the smoke and wealth and noise
Of decadent Rome, I urge you to leave: for
Change is pleasant,
And a simple dinner at a peasant's small
Hut all lacking in fine purple tapestries
Loosens the troubled brow of the richest man.
For see already:
Andromeda's shining father shows forth his
Secret fire; Procyon and the savage star
Of Leo rage, and the sun brings back the days,
Drought-filled, without rain;
The shepherd with his sluggish flock seeks out shade
And stream and the wild brambles of savage
Silvanus, and the quiet banks lack even
An unsteady breeze.
Yet you worry about the health of the State;
Troubled over the City, you're anxious about
The Seres and Cyrus-ruled Bactra and the
Fractious Scythians.
Wisely the god suppresses the outcome of
Future times in darkest night, and he laughs if
Mortals are disturbed by that which is beyond
Their proper orbit.
Take care to deal clearly with what's before you —
The rest is carried along like a river:
Now gliding calmly within its channel down
To the Tuscan sea,
Now churning gnawed rocks and uprooted tree-trunks
And cattle and homes until the surrounding
Woods and hills resound with noise when the fierce flood
Roils the placid stream.
Joyous and self-possessed is the life of he
Who each day can say: "I have lived — tomorrow
The Father may fill the sky with black storm-clouds
Or purest sunshine,
Yet even so he can't upset what is past:
He can't complete or alter or make undone
Whatever the fleeting hour has once produced."
For haughty Fortune,
So pleased with her cruel affairs and stubbornly
Playing her games, keeps shifting around all her
Dubious honors, smiling now on me and
Now on someone else.
I praise her while she stays. Yet when she spreads her
Her too-swift wings, I give back what she's granted
And wrapped in my strength I seek out poverty,
Honest and bereft.
It's not my way, when the southern gales roar out
Of Africa, to make abject prayers and
Votive offerings to strike a bargain lest
My exotic wares
Should add to the wealth of the rapacious sea;
It's then that the gods and a favoring breeze
Carry me and my two-oared skiff safely through
This Aegean storm.

Peter Saint-Andre > Writings > Ancient Fire

"Epicurus maintains that soul atoms are particularly fine and are distributed throughout the body (LH 64), and it is by means of them that we have sensations (aisthêseis) and the experience of pain and pleasure, which Epicurus calls pathê (a term used by Aristotle and others to signify emotions instead). " http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/epicurus/

**THIS WEEK IN EPICUREAN PHILOSOPHY - 06/06/2015***

** This is the one hundred and ninth in a series of weekly reports on news from the world of Epicurean Philosophy. Our home base for discussion is https://www.facebook.com/groups/EpicureanPhilosophy/ Copies of these posts, and links to active Epicurean websites, are stored at EpicurusCentral.wordpress.com, and referenced as well at the end of this post.

** We welcome all participants and lurkers. If you apply to participate and don't receive a reply promptly, please send an email to an admin about your interest in the group. We are here to discuss Epicurean Philosophy, have fun, and in the words of Lucian, "strike a blow for Epicurus - that great man whose holiness and divinity of nature were not shams, who alone had and imparted true insight into the good, and who brought deliverance to all that consorted with him!"

**This week we had a particularly good set of posts on core Epicurean doctrines, and tonight (and going forward) I plan to focus on making sure you didn't miss the most important ones, rather than try to list every one.

We had a series of excellent graphics prepared by several people. These are excellent for sharing, and I hope as many group members as possible will post and share them on their own timelines.

First, Panagiotis A. produced a series on the Principal Doctrines. Each of those generated excellent discussion, and I am listing them as follows:

**PD 6 - To secure protection from men anything is a natural good, by which you may be able to attain this end. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…37785612937067/

**PD 7 - Some men want fame and status, thinking that they would thus make themselves secure against other men. If the life of such men really were secure, they have attained a natural good; if, however, it is insecure, they have not attained the end which by nature's own prompting they originally sought. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…38402876208674/

**PD 8 - No pleasure is in itself bad, but the things which produce certain pleasures entail annoyances many times greater than the pleasures themselves. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…38868216162140/

**PD 10 - If the objects which are productive of pleasures to profligate persons really freed them from fears of the mind—the fears, I mean, inspired by celestial and atmospheric phenomena, the fear of death, the fear of pain—if, further, they taught them to limit their desires, we should not have any reason to censure such persons, for they would then be filled with pleasure to overflowing on all sides and would be exempt from all pain, whether of body or mind, that is, from all evil. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…39817249400570/

**PD9 - If every pleasure were condensed and were present at the same time and in the whole of one’s nature or its primary parts, then the pleasures would never differ from one another. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…39550452760583/ **I want to particularly highlight this one on PD9 because it contains some excellent discussion on the nature of pleasure.

** Our other major graphics designer, Elli P., also produced several graphics on important Epicurean points:

** VS21 - "We must not force Nature but persuade her. We shall persuade her if we satisfy the necessary desires and also those bodily desires that do not harm us while sternly checking those that are harmful." https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…40037286045233/

**VS 78. "The noble man is chiefly concerned with wisdom and friendship; of these, the former is a mortal good, the latter an immortal one." https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…40395846009377/

**Elli also shared a link from her Greek page illustrating some confusion between Stoic and Epicurean ideas: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…38760869506208/

Also as usual, Hiram C. posted a series of original articles:

**On Epicurean virtue: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…837780169604278

**Reasonings on Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…39823886066573/

**Contemplations on Tao Series - https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…40060196042942/

**An excellent post about Lucian's "science-fiction" adventure essay, cutely entitled "The True Story" - https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…40151482700480/

**Other posts of note this week include:

** One by me on a graphic about a "balanced life" https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…36555979726697/

** A post by me about conflicting translations (including VS42) and the need to scrutinize them for accuracy. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…37134736335488/ And a related post about conflicting translations on marriage, here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…37808186268143/

** A post by me to a graphic posted by a friend that gave a good opportunity to discuss the nature of pleasure. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…37771686271793/

**A post by me citing a comment by Gassendi on the Epicurean view of pleasure: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…38466879535607/

**A post to a new file upload brought to my attention by Francisco Martinez - a great article on iconography associated with Lucretius - lots of good images / etchings here - https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…38838269498468/

**A post by Yiannis T. to a new website containing many ancient Greek texts: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…39205516128410/

**Related to Yiannis' post, a clip from that same website about the meaning of "canon." https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…39242846124677/

**A post by Alexander R. about the future of cyborgenic organisms. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…39322082783420/

**A post by Dragan N. with a quote from an unusual source with Epicurean overtones. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…39578309424464/

**And mentioning Dragan reminds me that his post from last week "Why Men Won't Marry You" remains a hot topic https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…35121579870137/

**A post by Elli on a three year old boy with a very active imagination. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…39664222749206/

And that's it for this week!

**Thanks to all who participated the the Facebook forum this week. As always, if you have any comments, questions, or suggestions, please add a comment or participate in the Epicurean Philosophy Facebook Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/EpicureanPhilosophy/ or hop around the internet world of Epicurean Philosophy by checking the links here: EpicurusCentral.wordpress.com
*
Live Well!
Cassius Amicus

**Note: Here is a list of several options for those who wish to discuss Epicurus on the internet:

1- If you are someone whose views are fully formed, and you've combined several disparate viewpoints into your own personal mix, and you mainly want to talk casually to other people of the same eclectic type, there are several excellent facebook groups including EPISTOBUZEN and "Epicureanism for Modern Times" that you can find by searching facebook.

2- If you are focused primarily on Epicurus, and you want to participate in a forum where people will defend Epicurus strongly from all challenges, then you have two Facebook options. Our open and main group, entitled simply "Epicurean Philosophy," is the home base of this post. Anyone can read the posts there, and all you have to do is ask in order to join. (Note that there is an "About" and a "Sticky" post with our forum rules.)

3 - If you prefer to post in a "private" group where your posts are not readable by outsiders, we have"Epicurean Private Garden."Because it is a private group, you cannot find it by searching, and you have to email one of our admins in the open group if you wish to join. Please note that our About and Sticky Post rules in the private forum are the same as the open forum, and the private forum will be moderated to the same standards as the open forum (or perhaps slightly tighter!)

4 - If you are not only focused primarily on Epicurus, but you wish to assist with a forum platform where pro-Epicurean activists can build for the future, check out https://www.epicureanfriends.com/www.EpicureanFriends.com. Work is starting on a FAQ and other resources. Anyone can read the posts, but only approved members can create new posts or comment.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…39242846124677/

I just glanced at the new website Yiannis Tsapras linked for the Thesaurus Linguae Graecae, and I noticed something that may be worthy of comment. On their page entitled CANON, they have a book they describe as containing "a searchable database and a bibliographic guide to the authors and works included in the TLG® Digital Library." That reminds me of what I think is a **major** distinction between what "canon" means in "Epicurean Canon" vs. "canon" as the word is generally used today. For example, check this link at wikipedia for "canon": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CanonOn this "disambiguation" page, they have ten or so possible meanings for "canon", all of them referencing what amounts to a "body of laws."

As I understand it, the Epicureans used the word "canon" in a much different sense, not to refer to a "body of laws" but to the "tests of truth." In Epicurean terms the "tests of truth" are NOT a set of written rules, laws, or guidelines, but the faculties of sensation give us by nature: (1) five senses, (2) the faculty of pain and pleasure, and (3) the faculty of anticipations. The Epicurean Canon is NOT the Principal Doctrines, or any set of rules whatsoever. The Epicurean Canon is applied by trusting the senses and intelligently processing the information they provide, with the test of truth always requiring that anything considered to be true must be validated by information provided by these three categories of faculties.

Here is Bailey's translation where Diogenes Laertius explains this point. It is crucial, because Epicurean philosophy is not a system of logical syllogisms constructed from reason alone. It is above all a procedure for intelligently following the lead of Nature.

See Also - NewEpicurean.com Nietzsche On Stoicism's Fraud of Words

Genealogy Of Morals, Part III, Section 15

"Suffering people all have a horrible willingness and capacity for inventing pretexts for painful emotional feelings. They already enjoy their suspicions, their brooding over bad actions and apparent damage. They ransack the entrails of their past and present, looking for dark and dubious stories, in which they are free to feast on an agonizing suspicion and to get intoxicated on their own poisonous anger. They rip open the oldest wounds, they bleed themselves to death from long-healed scars. They turn friends, wives, children, and anyone else who is closest to them into criminals. "I am suffering. Someone or other must be to blame for that" - that how every sick sheep thinks. But his shepherd, the ascetic priest, says to him: "That's right, my sheep ! Someone must be to blame for that. But you yourself are this very person. You yourself are the only one to blame. You alone are to blame for yourself!" . . . That is clever enough, and false enough. But one thing at least is attained by that, as I have said, the direction of resentment has been changed."

Beyond Good And Evil, (Gutenberg edition, translated by Helen Zimmern) Chapter 1, section 9
You desire to LIVE “according to Nature”? Oh, you noble Stoics, what fraud of words! Imagine to yourselves a being like Nature, boundlessly extravagant, boundlessly indifferent, without purpose or consideration, without pity or justice, at once fruitful and barren and uncertain: imagine to yourselves INDIFFERENCE as a power—how COULD you live in accordance with such indifference? To live—is not that just endeavouring to be otherwise than this Nature? Is not living valuing, preferring, being unjust, being limited, endeavouring to be different? And granted that your imperative, “living according to Nature,” means actually the same as “living according to life”—how could you do DIFFERENTLY? Why should you make a principle out of what you yourselves are, and must be? In reality, however, it is quite otherwise with you: while you pretend to read with rapture the canon of your law in Nature, you want something quite the contrary, you extraordinary stage-players and self-deluders! In your pride you wish to dictate your morals and ideals to Nature, to Nature herself, and to incorporate them therein; you insist that it shall be Nature “according to the Stoa,” and would like everything to be made after your own image, as a vast, eternal glorification and generalism of Stoicism! With all your love for truth, you have forced yourselves so long, so persistently, and with such hypnotic rigidity to see Nature FALSELY, that is to say, Stoically, that you are no longer able to see it otherwise—and to crown all, some unfathomable superciliousness gives you the Bedlamite hope that BECAUSE you are able to tyrannize over yourselves—Stoicism is self-tyranny—Nature will also allow herself to be tyrannized over: is not the Stoic a PART of Nature?… But this is an old and everlasting story: what happened in old times with the Stoics still happens today, as soon as ever a philosophy begins to believe in itself. It always creates the world in its own image; it cannot do otherwise; philosophy is this tyrannical impulse itself, the most spiritual Will to Power, the will to “creation of the world,” the will to the causa prima.

Beyond Good And Evil, (Gutenberg edition, translated by Helen Zimmern) Chapter 5, section 188
188. In contrast to laisser-aller, every system of morals is a sort of tyranny against “nature” and also against “reason”, that is, however, no objection, unless one should again decree by some system of morals, that all kinds of tyranny and unreasonableness are unlawful What is essential and invaluable in every system of morals, is that it is a long constraint. In order to understand Stoicism, or Port Royal, or Puritanism, one should remember the constraint under which every language has attained to strength and freedom—the metrical constraint, the tyranny of rhyme and rhythm.

Beyond Good And Evil, (Gutenberg edition, translated by Helen Zimmern) Chapter 5, section 198
198. All the systems of morals which address themselves with a view to their “happiness,” as it is called—what else are they but suggestions for behaviour adapted to the degree of DANGER from themselves in which the individuals live; recipes for their passions, their good and bad propensities, insofar as such have the Will to Power and would like to play the master; small and great expediencies and elaborations, permeated with the musty odour of old family medicines and old-wife wisdom; all of them grotesque and absurd in their form—because they address themselves to “all,” because they generalize where generalization is not authorized; all of them speaking unconditionally, and taking themselves unconditionally; all of them flavoured not merely with one grain of salt, but rather endurable only, and sometimes even seductive, when they are over-spiced and begin to smell dangerously, especially of “the other world.” That is all of little value when estimated intellectually, and is far from being “science,” much less “wisdom”; but, repeated once more, and three times repeated, it is expediency, expediency, expediency, mixed with stupidity, stupidity, stupidity—whether it be the indifference and statuesque coldness towards the heated folly of the emotions, which the Stoics advised and fostered; or the no-more-laughing and no-more-weeping of Spinoza, the destruction of the emotions by their analysis and vivisection, which he recommended so naively; or the lowering of the emotions to an innocent mean at which they may be satisfied, the Aristotelianism of morals; or even morality as the enjoyment of the emotions in a voluntary attenuation and spiritualization by the symbolism of art, perhaps as music, or as love of God, and of mankind for God’s sake—for in religion the passions are once more enfranchised, provided that…; or, finally, even the complaisant and wanton surrender to the emotions, as has been taught by Hafis and Goethe, the bold letting-go of the reins, the spiritual and corporeal licentia morum in the exceptional cases of wise old codgers and drunkards, with whom it “no longer has much danger.”—This also for the chapter: “Morals as Timidity.”

Additional Cites From The Collection At The Epicurus Wiki
The following are not explicit references to Epicurus, but highly consistent with the Epicurean perspective:

Thus Spake Zarathustra, Walter Kaufman translation
“I beseech you, my brothers, remain faithful to the earth, and do not believe those who speak to you of otherworldly hopes! Poison-mixers are they, whether they know it or not. Despisers of life are they, decaying and poisoned themselves, of whom the earth is weary: so let them go. Once the sin against God was the greatest sin; but God died, and these sinners died with him. To sin against the earth is now the most dreadful thing, and to esteem the entrails of the unknowable higher than the meaning of the earth…”

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…3/?notif_t=like

One of our friends shared this graphic with the comment "What else can one wish for.....love life!❤" I agree that this is an excellent picture of pleasure - ordinary, understandable, non-platonic pleasure. But the majority of the Epicurean authorities out there would have you believe that this picture has very little, if anything, to do with Epicurean pleasure. They would have you believe than anything more than bread and water is "unnecessary" and that if you work to save money for a vacation to a place like this, you are unnecessarily disturbing your tranquility because you can be just as happy - in fact MORE happy, by cultivating "katastematic" pleasure - a big word that they rarely take the trouble to explain to you - and when they try it is little more than gibberish. I suggest that stoics should stay in their caves, and that open-minded people should question the stoic-ascetic commentators. Students of Epicurus should ignore the ascetic sniping and look to the same standard of pleasure and the good life to which Epicurus referred "“For I at least do not even know what I should conceive the good to be, if I eliminate the pleasures of taste, and eliminate the pleasures of sex, and eliminate the pleasures of listening, and eliminate the pleasant motions caused in our vision by a visible form."

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• Cassius Amicus I really need to collect examples of statements like this: "Epicurus conceived of pleasure in two ways. "Kinetic" pleasure is that pleasure felt while performing an activity, such as eating or drinking. "Katastematic" pleasure is that pleasure felt while being in a state. This is the pleasure of not being disturbed, of being free from pain. Both types of pleasure occur in the body and the soul. The absence of pain (katastematic pleasure) in the soul (ataraxia), though, is the highest good for Epicurus." The clear implication of this statement is that the goal of life is "absence of pain" rather than " pleasures of taste, and eliminate the pleasures of sex, and eliminate the pleasures of listening, and eliminate the pleasant motions caused in our vision by a visible form." So this - and many other - commentators, would have us believe that Epicurus recognized the good by sensing active pleasures, but then defined the "highest good" as something else entirely - the *negation* of sensation. Hogwash.
  

  Read more: Epicureanism - Epicurus On Pleasure - Ataraxia, Pain, Sense, and Kinetic - JRank Articles http://science.jrank.org/.../Epicureanism-Epicurus-on...

  
  

  Epicureanism - Epicurus On PleasureOther Free Encyclopedias » Science Encyclopedia » Science & Philosophy: Ephemeris to Evolution - Historical Background » Epicureanism - Epicurus On Pleasure, Epicurus On Human Excellence, Epicureans And Stoics Compared, Other Aspects Of EpicureanismSCIENCE.JRANK.ORG

**THIS WEEK IN EPICUREAN PHILOSOPHY - 05/30/2015***

** This is the one hundred and eighth in a series of weekly reports on news from the world of Epicurean Philosophy. Our home base for discussion is https://www.facebook.com/groups/EpicureanPhilosophy/ Copies of these posts, and links to active Epicurean websites, are stored at EpicurusCentral.wordpress.com.

** We welcome all participants and lurkers. If you apply to participate and don't receive a reply promptly, please send an email to an admin about your interest in the group. We are here to discuss Epicurean Philosophy, have fun, and in the words of Lucian, "strike a blow for Epicurus - that great man whose holiness and divinity of nature were not shams, who alone had and imparted true insight into the good, and who brought deliverance to all that consorted with him!"

**This week I am posting on time and will return to my traditional format after a couple of important points:

**First, this is a good time to review the options available for those who wish to discuss Epicurus within any of several custom frameworks. This past week we had many discussions on the same topic, and it's clear to me that things are shaping up in this general direction:

1- If you are someone whose views are fully formed, and you've combined several disparate viewpoints into your own personal mix, and you mainly want to talk casually to other people of the same eclectic type, there are several excellent facebook groups including EPISTOBUZEN and "Epicureanism for Modern Times" that you can find by searching facebook.

2- If you are focused primarily on Epicurus, and you want to participate in a forum where people will defend Epicurus strongly from all challenges, then you have two Facebook options. Our open and main group, entitled simply "Epicurean Philosophy," is the home base of this post. Anyone can read the posts there, and all you have to do is ask in order to join. (Note that there is an "About" and a "Sticky" post with our forum rules.)

3 - If you prefer to post in a "private" group where your posts are not readable by outsiders, last week we set up just such a group, "Epicurean Private Garden" and that is now getting off the ground. Because it is a private group, you cannot find it by searching, and you have to email one of our admins in the open group if you wish to join. Please note that our About and Sticky Post rules in the private forum are the same as the open forum, and the private forum will be moderated to the same standards as the open forum (or perhaps slightly tighter!)

4 - If you are not only focused primarily on Epicurus, but you wish to assist with a forum platform where pro-Epicurean activists can build for the future, check out https://www.epicureanfriends.com/www.EpicureanFriends.com. I am working on a FAQ list there, and setting up the forum in such a way that it can be used for reference material in the future. Anyone can read the posts, but only approved members can create new posts or comment.

The second general comment is that recent debates continue to sharpen the issues that separate our Epicurean Philosophy Facebook group from other groups, which are the same that separate Epicurean philosophy from other philosophies. If you are the sort person whose primary emphasis is Stoicism, Buddhism, or some similar philosophy, and you have concluded that "nothingness" or "escape from pain" is your primary focus in life, then you are going to be more at home in one of other groups listed above, and not in the Epicurean Philosophy Group. You are welcome to read and participate in the Epicurean Philosophy Group, but you are going to find that those views will be challenged vigorously, as the Epicureans challenged them in the ancient world. Unfortunately, we are finding on a fairly regular basis that people who are committed to opposing viewpoints wish to come into the main group and argue their anti-Epicurean positions for purpose or argument, and not because they are genuinely interested in supporting Epicurean views. Such posts are in violation of our "About" section, and in the end such people will be removed from the group. The reason for that is simple: We are dedicated to providing a reliable source of EPICUREAN philosophy to those who come by with a sincere interest in learning. We are not going to allow anti-Epicurean arguments to remain unanswered in the group, and after a while it simply becomes too distracting to reply to them all. Check out either of the groups mentioned above and you will see an eclectic combinations of ideas with little way to differentiate them if you are not already familiar with Epicurean philosophy. If you come to the main group you should not have that problem.

*** Much of the division comes down to this: Some people - MANY people, in fact - are happy to endorse Epicurus and study him, but they do so because they believe that his "absence of pain" remarks make him a kind of Super-Stoic, more ascetic even than the famous philosophers of Stoicism. Such people believe that Epicurus preached that we should pursue only "Necessary" pleasures, which they define as little more than breathing, drinking water, and eating bread while locked in their cave.

The administrators of the Epicurean Facebook Page differ in the finer points of their positions on this issue, but they uniformly reject the characterization of Epicurus that I just mentioned. In general they hold to a view stated well by Thomas Jefferson and quoted today by Alexander Rios from Jefferson's "Head and Heart" letter:

**** Let the gloomy monk, sequestered from the world, seek unsocial pleasures in the bottom of his cell! Let the sublimated philosopher grasp visionary happiness while pursuing phantoms dressed in the garb of truth! Their supreme wisdom is supreme folly; & they mistake for happiness the mere absence of pain. Had they ever felt the solid pleasure of one generous spasm of the heart, they would exchange for it all the frigid speculations of their lives, which you have been vaunting in such elevated terms.****

The Epicurean Philosophy Facebook Group, and the web pages set up by its core administators, are dedicated to pointing the way back to an understanding of Epicurus that gives full effect to his philosophy, and does not stand it on its head through an out-of-context reading of a few passages in the letter to Menoeceus. All of us are happy to explain why those passages do NOT mean that Epicurus was an ascetic or a Stoic, but our primary goal is to explain that to people of good faith who really want to know, and not to people whose primary goal is to argue for argument's sake, and otherwise distract us from the work that we are doing to research, write, and reinvigorate the Epicurean movement.

--- End of sermon ---

This week Hiram continued with a series of good background posts on Epicurean theory. These included:

Reasonings About Philodemus on the Stoics - https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…34248633290765/

The Pleasure - Aversion Faculty https://theautarkist.wordpress.com/2015/05/20/the…n-introduction/

A Notice that the Partially Examined Life Website will be reading "A Few Days In Athens" https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…35105996538362/

A post on the "Book of Community" https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…34770049905290/

Reasonings about Philodemus on Music https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…36031499779145/

Epicurus' Instructions on Innovations: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…36074026441559/

*** This week has also been an excellent one for "memes" put together by Panagiotis Alexiou and Elli Pensa. Here are a few:

On Friendship - https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…34327403282888/

On the Categories of the Desires - https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…34328083282820/

On Death is Nothing To US - https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…34751746573787/

On Diogenes of Oinoanda's passage on "Shouting to all Greeks and Non-Greeks that PLEASURE is the end of life" https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…33478563367772/

On Principal Doctrine Four: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…35473289834966/

On Principal Doctrine Five: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…36008823114746/

On Principal Doctrine Three: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…35473183168310/

On Epicurus Replies to Zen: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…35969573118671/

On Vatican Saying Eleven: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…36075223108106/

------

*** I also want to mention a post that Dragan made this week about marriage, which contains some good commentary, especially by Elli - https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…35121579870137/

There's more that I did not capture here, but this post is too long already -

**Thanks to all who participated the the Facebook forum this week. As always, if you have any comments, questions, or suggestions, please add a comment or participate in the Epicurean Philosophy Facebook Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/EpicureanPhilosophy/ or hop around the internet world of Epicurean Philosophy by checking the links here: EpicurusCentral.wordpress.com
*
Live Well!
Cassius Amicus

Quote from Hiram

One reply I can come up with is in PD 39, where we are invited to remove ourselves from the presence of this person, to ostracize a sociopath or psychopath, which our legal and prison system already does. The words used as "so far as it is advantageous, exclude them from your life" - because friendship should be, and is by nature, mutually advantageous. A psychopath provides no advantage by his friendship.

Hiram I think that is exactly on point and is the key to the answer. We can also cite PD6. "In order to obtain protection from other men, any means for attaining this end is a natural good."

Also, this from the Torquatus section of Cicero's "On Ends": "Yet nevertheless some men indulge without limit their avarice, ambition and love of power, lust, gluttony and those other desires, which ill-gotten gains can never diminish but rather must inflame the more; inasmuch that they appear proper subjects for restraint rather than for reformation."

This is a very important topic.

Quote from Hiram

It's been said that Epicurean philosophy treats the mind in its healthy, natural state, like positive psychology does, but what happens when people are so sick and broken, psychologically, that they take pleasure in masochism, sadism, and cruelty? What happens when people take pleasure in horrible things?

One answer to "What happens when people take pleasure in horrible things?" is to observe that in regard to gods, virtue, platonic forms, essences, etc -- the same thing happens - NOTHING. Gods, virtue, platonic forms, essences, etc., do not exist in themselves to provide any remedy for people who suffer from the acts of psychopaths. The potential victims of the psychopaths must act to protect themselves from that conduct, or they will not be protected from that conduct. Our thinking that the situation is bad will not change the facts that there is no outside force to protect us from psychopaths, any more than there are outside forces to protect us from tornadoes or meteors.

**THIS WEEK IN EPICUREAN PHILOSOPHY - 05/24/2015***

** This is the one hundred and seventh in a series of weekly reports on news from the world of Epicurean Philosophy. Our home base for discussion is https://www.facebook.com/groups/EpicureanPhilosophy/Copies of these posts, and links to active Epicurean websites, are stored atEpicurusCentral.wordpress.com.

** We welcome all participants and lurkers. If you apply to participate and don't receive a reply promptly, please send an email to an admin about your interest in the group. We are here to discuss Epicurean Philosophy, have fun, and in the words of Lucian, "strike a blow for Epicurus - that great man whose holiness and divinity of nature were not shams, who alone had and imparted true insight into the good, and who brought deliverance to all that consorted with him!"

**Some unavoidable traveling yesterday has delayed me in posting this week's update on the Facebook group, but it has given me more time to think about this week's theme. In recent weeks we have had the usual series of excellent posts and discussions, but there has been an uptick in controversy, some of it helpful, and some of it not.

The issue is exemplified in the extensive discussion of my post this week:

"Query: "Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all." Would Epicurus have agreed or disagreed? Why?"https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…32027843512844/

The question posed here proved to be an excellent way to get to the very deep issues that divide those who are truly and primarily fans of Epicurus from those who are primarily fans of other philosophers. But the real issue is not a matter of labels and schools - the real issue is the deep one that Epicurus addressed directly: "What is the goal of life?" There have always been, and apparently always will be, those who for a variety of reasons wish to attack the goal of living devoted to pleasure, and praise life devoted to pain. As Cicero's Toquatus described them as those who hold: "...this mistaken idea of reprobating pleasure and extolling pain ..."

The enemies of pleasure operate under many frameworks. There is a large contingent that embraces the stoic idea of that goes under the guise of suppressing all emotion, but is really oriented toward suppressing pleasure and encouraging pain. But there is also the spirit of skepticism that lives on in the attitude of eclecticism. These people are so adamantly certain that nothing can be considered true that they insist that there is no need for consistency, no need for intellectual rigor, and that they can combine by sheer force of will the most contradictory ideas into one grab-bag collection. What unites these two is that both the pure stoics *and* the eclectics thrive on the deception of being opaque about their true goals. They extol "happiness" to the skies, and demand that we accept that their goal and their definition of happiness is the same as ours. But if you scratch the surface, the goal of happiness as defined by these people is as drained of pleasure as the surface of the moon.

The pleasures of life can only be purchased at the price of some pain. Epicurean philosophy is devoted to the intelligent application of the facts of reality and human nature to assist us in living with as much happiness as possible, which entails also living with as little pain as possible. But just as with his discussion of "the gods," Epicurus did not write and teach to the "lowest common denominstor." He did not oversimplify the issues and he did not distort his teachings so that even the unwise can understand them. Diogenes Laertius: "However, not every bodily constitution nor every nationality would permit a man to become wise. VS29. "To speak frankly as I study nature I would prefer to speak in oracles that which is of advantage to all men even though it be understood by none, rather than to conform to popular opinion and thus gain the constant praise that comes from the many."

In reading Epicurus on the gods, it is necessary to understand that Epicurus defined "gods" in a non-supernatural way. So when Epicurus said that "gods" exist, he was not talking about the supernatural gods that many people insist on jumping to conclude. If you insist on reading Epicurus superficially, you will totally miss his meaning.

In reading Epicurus on pleasure, it is necessary to understand that Epicurus defined "feeling" as having only two categories - pleasure or pain - and that one's feelings, if not painful, are therefore going to be pleasurable. So when Epicurus talks about the goal of absence of pain, he means pleasure as ordinarily understood, and not some mystical third state of anesthesia that Stoic-minded people embrace and insist on jumping to conclude. Again, if you insist on reading Epicurus superficially, you will totally miss his meaning.

And "insisting on reading Epicurus superficially" is exactly what the majority of pleasure-repressing philosophers have insisted on doing since at least the time of Seneca. "If you can't defeat him, co-opt his words and twist them to support your own" has been their theme for 2000 years. And they have succeeded to the point where it is almost impossible to find a group of people who insist on talking the truth about Epicurean pleasure.

There may be other places I am not aware of, but the Epicurean Philosophy Facebook page, and those sites affiliated with the leadership of this group, are the exceptions. Although we certainly have differences of opinion among ourselves, the unifying theme is that we are rejecting the ascetic view of Epicurus, and we are studying and working to understand once again the pleasure-focused philosophy that is evident when one escapes the jail of the orthodox framework.

We have promoted in the past and will continue to promote in the future honest and constructive discussion of these issues. But we are not going loosen our moderation practices to allow the enemies of pleasure to conduct in this group their standard campaing of intimidation and misprepresentation. If you have an open mind about the meaning of pleasure, and you truly wish to study Epicurean philosophy to assist yourself in living happily in a way that ordinary people can understand, then you are welcome and encouraged to participate and post in our group.
If your interest in being here is to snipe against pleasure and suppress discussion, then you are *not* welcome to participate. The About Section and Sticky Post of this group will be enforced in a constructive manner to reinforce the goal of the group and to prevent those who disagree with that goal from disrupting it.

Questions like "is it better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all" are of vital interest to everyone. Elli P. in particular, and others as well, gave great responses. They pointed out that in EVERY question, even one as charged as this one, the ultimate answer is always the same. There is no Platonic ideal form, no Aristotelian evaluation of "essences," or looking for "golden means," or "moderation," that answer the question for us. Nor is it possible to succeed in analyzing this question with an eclectic "whatever works" approach which hides the meaning of "works."

Epicurus' doctrine is clear: All pleasure is good, and all questions of what we choose and avoid have to be evaluated according to whether those choices and avoidance bring pleasure or pain. And in the end, since the goal of life is the most possible pleasure AND the least possible pain, only we can evaluate for ourselves how that calculation should be computed.

These are questions and answers that are fundamental to living. Epicurus stood alone against mainstream Greek philosophy with his outlook on answering these questions, and in 2000 years no other school has approached the level of his insight. What people find so hard to understand in many cases is the reason they have failed -- despite their protests about "happiness" -- is that they don't *want* to succeed, because they fundamentally disagree with us that pleasure is desirable for itself.

But pleasure *is* desirable for itself, and the reason that it is so is that Nature has made us that way. If we wish to follow Nature, then we need to study and apply the philosophy of Epicurus. That is what we are working to do in the Epicurean facebook group, and those who share our goal are welcome and encouraged to join us.

**Thanks to all who participated the the Facebook forum this week. As always, if you have any comments, questions, or suggestions, please add a comment or participate in the Epicurean Philosophy Facebook Grouphttps://www.facebook.com/groups/EpicureanPhilosophy/ or hop around the internet world of Epicurean Philosophy by checking the links here:EpicurusCentral.wordpress.com
*
Live Well!
Cassius Amicus

A very smart woman in Greece wrote this. Maybe she will post it herself at some point but until then:

As you placed this issue, Epicurus would answer to it, like this: I do not answer in such kind of dilemmas to agree or disagree.

I prefer to post here again, a comment that I have written to another thread and some months ago.

On the matters of : 1) Eros as sexual desire and 2) love as friendship

Two different concepts and meanings : the first (1) is complex, inexplicable and unreason the second (2) is very simple, explicable and reason.

What is eros as sexual desire and what is friendship as love and what does this word really means ? Epicurus used to talk for “friendship”(filia), which is came from the greek verb "filo"="φιλώ" = agapo = love. Which means a relationship based on care and interesting in accordance to a mutual benefit which has a balance of offering and taking about feelings thoughts and actions.

Epicuru’s exhortations (neither demands nor simple advices) on eros as sexual desire are trying to show us the way to overcome the obstacles that cause disturbances in our body, mind and soul. Because eros as sexual desire, this complex and absurd situation is dominated under the status of the conquer, of sovereignty and of the destruction. So many have been written what is "eros" ? Poets, writers, philosophers, thinkers, scientists, and all of them lead to one conclusion :"Eros is the brother of death and without the disaster is not eros, but a matter of LOL and derision".

And here comes Epicurus to show us, something else, something that we already know it, but we pretend that we do not know it. He shows us clearly what is eros as sexual desire as a typical sequential model: “At the beginning is lust, then is infatuation, then fulfillment and finally jealousy and boredom. In this infinite and repeated story, beyond the actual sexual act there is only anxiety and depression” ... but here comes again that Titan of wisdom going straight to the matter and tells us, how we would achieve to find the right friend partner in our life, to love and share the friendship, which is based on mutual benefit, under the same interests, common thoughts and actions with the balance of offering and giving and with the same desires to live the joy of a fruitful relationship with all the pleasures of life it has.

And we? No, we say to him. We want to pass first from the condition of the animal to bleed, to suffer, to feel pain, to give pain, to devour and be devoured and after all these painful situations, then I will become a man of wisdom. And while he, Epicurus, tells us how we can become an hyperman of wisdom and to have prudence and live as a god among the men, we answer : No ! I want to be an animal firstly. An animal which is been conquered under my unreasonable instincts.

And Epicurus answers : Sure, you have your instincts this is natural and of course you can’t uproot them, since your are not a foolish apathetic stoic person, but I can show you the way, in which you can understand WHY you have these instincts; and HOW they become evolved when they've been well educated with prudence and stop to be instincts...but HUMAN FEELINGS and wise thoughts, that will bring you all the benefits to live a wonderful and pleasurable life .
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