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Posts by Cassius

New Graphics: Are You On Team Epicurus? | Comparison Chart: Epicurus vs. Other Philosophies | Chart Of Key Epicurean Quotations | Accelerating Study Of Canonics Through Philodemus' "On Methods Of Inference" | Note to all users: If you have a problem posting in any forum, please message Cassius  

  • Historical References on the School of Epicurean Philosophy - Notable Epicureans From The Ancient World To Today

    • Cassius
    • February 1, 2022 at 9:58 AM

    One aspect of this we need is:

    (1) Notable "living" people who identify with Epicurus (and again I would exclude here our current internet-based people like this website, or Society of Epicurus, or the Greek Gardens), because we're looking for "notable" that the public might recognize. As per my prior comments I don't think Christopher Hitchens (who is now dead of course, but alive fairly recently) really qualifies.

    (2) As to "scholars" who might not be notable but would have a reputation in the academic community, I note that Nate's list doesn't include scholars such as DeWitt. That's to be expected, because to my knowledge DeWitt himself never proclaimed that he himself was an Epicurean, and the fair assumption is that DeWitt was probably some form of Christian. However it's notable that DeWitt appears to have been one of the most recent people to have devoted his professional career to the study of Epicurus, and DeWitt's works are probably some of the few that are not filled with dismissals and efforts to point out Epicurus' alleged errors. I doubt we could consider Sedley or Tsouna as people who are primarily devoted in their professional career to promoting Epicurean views sympathetically. We might possibly consider Bailey, given the amount of work he put into both Lucretius and Epicurus, but Bailey seems to me to be mostly hostile to Epicurus's ethics and probably other parts of his philosophy as well. Another name to consider would be Martin Ferguson Smith, who I would place somewhere between Bailey and DeWitt.

  • Historical References on the School of Epicurean Philosophy - Notable Epicureans From The Ancient World To Today

    • Cassius
    • February 1, 2022 at 8:34 AM

    For some reason I woke up thinking about this today. Although I am not interested in seeing us "play to the crowd," most of us live and work among people who are almost exclusively non-Epicurean, and know little about Epicurus.

    At some point it becomes a logical and reasonable question for them to ask:

    "I've never really heard of Epicurus, or anyone who said that they were Epicurean. Those views you are talking about sound pretty underground to me and actually bordering on evil. Of course I know you and I like you, but can you name me one reputable person over the last three hundred years who has labelled themselves an Epicurean? Hopefully you can name more than one obscure name, but if you can't, maybe we better talk about getting you some medical help. I know this great counselor who specializes in Dialectical Behavior Therapy!"

    My comment to that:

    I've heard people suggest names like Christopher Hitchens and all sorts of people who have said one or two good things about Epicurus, but there are very few who come anywhere close to embracing his entire philosophy, much less actually committed to writing "I too am an Epicurean."

    I think this is a legitimate conversation topic with the outside world, so I think we need to work on our response. I know Nate has produced a very good list of historical Epicureans, and I think Don has done something similar in terms of a time frame or time line analysis.

    I will start a new thread and link to those two sets of materials and let's see what we can do to expand this.

    Nate's Research Discussion Thread: RE: Early Epicurean Community - Listing of Known Epicureans Thoughout History

    Nate's Research Consolidated For Publishing: Epicurean Philosophers by Nathan H. Bartman

    Don's Timeline: Updated Alternative Timeline of Epicurean History

    New Page Devoted to this in Lexicon:

  • Thomas Jefferson's Religious Beliefs

    • Cassius
    • February 1, 2022 at 8:34 AM
    Quote from Don

    I have any number of problems with Thomas Jefferson and remain ambivalent with regards to him. He's never been one of my favorite Founders (I'm more a Franklin fan). I've also never been entirely comfortable with his image being in the header to this forum, but that is entirely Cassius 's call.

    For some reason I woke up thinking about this today and this comment comes to mind:

    Although I am not interested in seeing us "play to the crowd," most of us live and work among people who are almost exclusively non-Epicurean, and know little about Epicurus.

    At some point it becomes a logical and reasonable question for them to ask:

    "I've never really heard of Epicurus, or anyone who said that they were Epicurean. Those views you are talking about sound pretty underground to me and actually bordering on evil. Of course I know you and I like you, but can you name me one reputable person over the last three hundred years who has labelled themselves an Epicurean? Hopefully you can name more than one obscure name, but if you can't, maybe we better talk about getting you some medical help. I know this great counselor who specializes in Dialectical Behavior Therapy!"

    My comment to that:

    I've heard people suggest names like Christopher Hitchens and all sorts of people who have said one or two good things about Epicurus, but there are very few who come anywhere close to embracing his entire philosophy, much less actually committed to writing "I too am an Epicurean."

    I think this is a legitimate conversation topic with the outside world, so I think we need to work on our response. I know Nate has produced a very good list of historical Epicureans, and I think Don has done something similar in terms of a time frame or time line analysis.

    I will start a new thread and link to those two sets of materials and let's see what we can do to expand this.

    Let's continue this part of this thread in the new location: Historical References on the School of Epicurean Philosophy - Ancient World To Today

  • 2022 Epicurus vs Buddhism Compare and Contrast Thread

    • Cassius
    • January 31, 2022 at 9:02 PM

    Wow that is a whopper of a chart thank you Nate!

  • 2022 Epicurus vs Buddhism Compare and Contrast Thread

    • Cassius
    • January 31, 2022 at 7:45 PM
    Quote from Kalosyni

    and realizing "aimlessness, signlessness, and emptiness" as the path to "nirvana"

    Apparently I know a lot more Buddhists in my local life than I realized! ;)

  • "A Few Days In Athens" Zoom Book Club Meeting #2: Chapter Two (Feb 6 - 8:00 PM EST) (Sun, Feb 6th 2022, 8:00 pm-9:00 pm)

    • Cassius
    • January 31, 2022 at 7:04 PM

    Outline of Events in Chapter Two:

    Chapter 2 Summary – Epicurus introduces Theon to the Garden

    1. Epicurus introduces Theon to his students and asks them to welcome him, but Epicurus advises them to use their own eyes and ears and not trust his endorsement.
    2. Introduction of Leontium, female friend and student of Epicurus.
    3. Leontium states that she has been studying Theophrastus (successor to Aristotle) and found him to be arrogant.
    4. Leontium states that she and Metrodorus have been debating the question “Whether the vicious were more justly objects of indignation or of contempt.”
    5. Epicurus gives his opinion – “neither” – and states that Time is the teacher of this verdict.
    6. Epicurus and Metrodorus discuss Metrodorus’ past vices and present redemption from them.
    7. Theon recounts that Timocrates had denounced Epicurus at the Stoic assembly.
    8. Theon states that Zeno must fail to understand Epicurus’ doctrine – Epicurus corrects Theon on this point.
  • "A Few Days In Athens" Zoom Book Club Meeting #2: Chapter Two (Feb 6 - 8:00 PM EST) (Sun, Feb 6th 2022, 8:00 pm-9:00 pm)

    • Cassius
    • January 31, 2022 at 7:03 PM

    Cassius started a new event:

    Event

    "A Few Days In Athens" Zoom Book Club Meeting #2: Chapter Two (Feb 6 - 8:00 PM EST)

    "A Few Days In Athens" Zoom Book Club Meeting #2: Chapter Two (Feb 6 - 8:00 PM EST)

    This will be the second session on "A Few Days In Athens," and we will talk about Chapter Two.

    The rough agenda for our one hour session is:

    1 - Twenty Minute or so overview of Frances Wright, the Introduction, and Chapter Two by led Cassius and any other volunteer regular forum participants who have read the whole book.

    2 - Brief introduction of everyone on the call. (We will go around the zoom list and ask…
    Sun, Feb 6th 2022, 8:00 pm – 9:00 pm
    Cassius
    January 31, 2022 at 7:03 PM

    Quote

    "A Few Days In Athens" Zoom Book Club Meeting #2: Chapter Two (Feb 6 - 8:00 PM EST)

    This will be the second session on "A Few Days In Athens," and we will talk about Chapter Two.

    The rough agenda for our one hour session is:

    1 - Twenty Minute or so overview of Frances Wright, the Introduction, and Chapter Two by led Cassius and any other volunteer regular forum participants who have read the whole book.

    2 - Brief introduction of everyone on the call. (We will go around the zoom list and ask everyone to say their first names (real or otherwise) and tell us about their background and interest in Epicurus. For example: "My name is Joshua, I am from (country), and I have been interested in Epicurus ever since _______________. I have read (describe how many books on Epicurus you have read) and I have / have not read the entire "A Few Days In Athens."

    3 - After we do the introductions, we will then open the floor for open discussion of Chapter Two from all participants. Depending on how many people we have we will probably use the "raise your hand" method of going around the table with Cassius or other moderator calling on people to keep the conversation organized. We will monitor the text chat also and people can use that to indicate that they want to speak, and what about.

    Note: The use of video is strictly optional. We anticipate many of our friends will choose to use audio only.

    Cassius Amicus is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.

    Topic: Cassius Amicus' Zoom Meeting AFDIA Session 2

    Time: Feb 6, 2022 08:30 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)

    Cassius Amicus is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.

    Topic: Cassius Amicus' Zoom Meeting AFDIA Session TWO

    Time: Feb 6, 2022 08:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)

    Join Zoom Meeting

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    Important Links:

    Link to PDF of the original book at Archive.org.

    AFDIA Website with the entire book: http://www.afewdaysinathens.com

    Link to previous and ongoing discussion of chapter two here at EpicureanFriends - Please post new substantive comments about the topic of the chapter here, where the text is also located: https://www.epicureanfriends.com/index.php?thread/741-afdia-chapter-two-text-and-discussion/

    Discussion thread for 2022 meeting logistics - please post comments about your attendance or other non-substantive comments here: "A Few Days In Athens" Zoom Book Club Meeting #2: Chapter Two (Feb 6 - 8:00 PM EST) (Sun, Feb 6th 2022, 8:00 pm-9:00 pm)

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  • 2022 Epicurus vs Buddhism Compare and Contrast Thread

    • Cassius
    • January 31, 2022 at 6:25 PM

    I wonder if some of these categories on the Y axis (left column, which label the rows) would be useful for the comparison?

  • 2022 Epicurus vs Buddhism Compare and Contrast Thread

    • Cassius
    • January 31, 2022 at 6:23 PM

    Kalosyni on that chart, does life have a goal or highest good in Buddhism, and if so what is it ?

  • 2022 Epicurus vs Buddhism Compare and Contrast Thread

    • Cassius
    • January 31, 2022 at 12:26 PM
    Quote from Godfrey

    Not to make this chart idea even more complicated, but it seems as if it would need a time element as well. What major form(s) of Indian Buddhism was active at the time of the ancient Greeks v what major forms are currently available to Westerners.

    I think Godfrey knows me well enough that I am not saying this to be disagreeable, but that kind of historical exposition is probably beyond what people here would need, unless they are truly historians. Several of the comments above have made points about "Secular Buddhism"" or something similar, and in truth that's probably where our focus ought to be: we're here to help people, so our efforts probably ought to focus on the major forms into which people we come into contact with regularly would have themselves come into contact with it. Almost like, again using the analogy of the Hermotimus dialogue, there were sort of like callers from the varying schools on every corner, calling people into their particular school. It would be those high-sounding and attractive points that they would focus on to get people attracted in the first place, and I would think a lot of the distinctions we are most needing to know are probably visible even on that superficial level.

    Does it really surprise people who are first being attracted to Buddhism that "nothingness" is a central idea? I suspect most people get that message pretty quickly, and it's already at that level that the warning flags and buzzers need to be waving and going off in our minds.

  • A Depression Thread at the Epicurean Philosophy Facebook Page

    • Cassius
    • January 31, 2022 at 12:20 PM

    This is more than a little off topic but that juxtaposition of dual roles reminds me of this line from Paine's "Age of Reason":

    Quote

    The Bible of the creation is inexhaustible in texts. Every part of science, whether connected with the geometry of the universe, with the systems of animal and vegetable life, or with the properties of inanimate matter, is a text as well for devotion as for philosophy-—for gratitude, as for human improvement. It will perhaps be said, that if such a revolution in the system of religion takes place, every preacher ought to be a philosopher. Most certainly, and every house of devotion a school of science.

    http://klymkowskylab.colorado.edu/Readings/Thomas%20Paine%20-%20The%20Age%20of%20Reason.pdf

  • 2022 Epicurus vs Buddhism Compare and Contrast Thread

    • Cassius
    • January 31, 2022 at 12:15 PM
    Quote

    "I think it’s safe to assume that most of us (meaning all humans) are not overly happy people in general. Life allows for some pleasures here and there…the basics, but real joys are sometimes few and far between. I personally often feel a level of somberness that comes with a litany of experiences."

    This observation is a key one. There's something about the way different people categorize their view of life that we're really dealing with here, and I don't think it's a purely "logical" difference in conclusion. I don't know if it's cultural, clinical, genetic, chemical, educational, or some combination of these or even other factors, but to reach the conclusion that "life allows for some pleasures here and there...." is indeed a somber attitude that everyone does not share.

    I would have to think about better ways to illustrate it than this quote, but this is what comes immediately to mind from the "head and heart" letter:


    Founders Online: From Thomas Jefferson to Maria Cosway, 12 October 1786
    founders.archives.gov


    Maybe these sentiments are hard to reduce to a logical formula, but I see in the difference between these two perspectives something that goes to the heart of Epicurus vs the Buddhist perspective.

  • 2022 Epicurus vs Buddhism Compare and Contrast Thread

    • Cassius
    • January 31, 2022 at 9:57 AM

    It's almost like we need a chart with the major different branches on the X axis and the major beliefs on the Y and then check boxes or short yes or no entries in the grid at each intersection?

    Again this is never likely to satisfy a committed Buddhist, but that's not our audience or intent here. Rather we are aiming only at a fair overview helpful for our own needs in categorizing the issues.

    We've never satisfied the Stoics in our comparisons there, and we won't satisfy the Buddhists, but since we are neither that's a secondary consideration.

  • Welcome BriBri56!

    • Cassius
    • January 31, 2022 at 8:48 AM

    Thank you and welcome Brian! If you get a chance to at least tell us at some point how you found the forum (googling, facebook, wikipedia, etc.) even that small amount of information would be helpful. And of course anything else you'd like to share can help us tailor conversations to your particular interests.

  • 2022 Epicurus vs Buddhism Compare and Contrast Thread

    • Cassius
    • January 31, 2022 at 8:46 AM
    Quote from Matt

    I would say yes to three outlines…

    Matt I am not quite sure what this refers to?

    Are you pointing to a chart or outline that shows a comparison of types of Buddhism and the ideas that all share? If so or you know of such a thing that would be useful.

    It wouldn't be very productive to trace each minor sect into their own detailed twists and turns, but it would be productive to develop references as to what the major groupings share.

  • "A Few Days In Athens" Zoom Book Club Meeting #1: Who Was Frances Wright, Introduction, and Chapter One (Jan 30 8:00 PM EST) (Sun, Jan 30th 2022, 8:00 pm-9:00 pm)

    • Cassius
    • January 30, 2022 at 9:38 PM

    Joshua's outline was so good we need a copy here. It's not well formatted like the PDF, but good enough:

    Chapter 1 Outline

    I. Begins In Media Res, in the middle of things

    A. Theon’s Soliloquoy

    i. Appeal to the gods

    ii. "Corrupting the youth"

    iii. "Forsaking the Portico

    B. Characteristics of the "Gargettian", per Timocrates

    i. Blasphemer, Seducer, Deceiver

    ii. Master of "cursed cermonies of riot and impiety"

    iii. "nocturnal horrors"

    II. Meeting the Stranger

    A. Theon leaves the noisy crowded city, for the restful peace of nature

    i. Seats himself by the Cephisus

    ii. Interrupted by the gentle sound of footsteps

    iii. Extensive description of the (evident) sage

    III. Their Conversation

    A. On Zeno

    i. "a school of real virtue"

    ii. "I had rather be the companion than the master"

    iii. Theon; "I have looked upon Zeno with admiration and despair"

    iv. "He who but admires virtue, yields her but half her due"

    v. Can we rival Zeno? Yes: with;

    1. Innocence

    2. Sensibility

    3. Enthusiasm

    4. Ambition

    5. Courage

    6. Will

    vi. All men cannot be poets and philosophers, but can be virtuous

    Cephisus-A river god. Father

    of Eteocles, first mortal to

    worship the three Graces,

    attendants of Aphrodite (and

    sometimes Apollo)
    B. On Epicurus

    i. "What a loss for man that you are not teacher in the garden"

    ii. "...I shall never be seduced by the advocate of vice"

    iii. "I (Epicurus) would have you attend all the schools, with a willing ear"

    iv. Even the garden itself

    C. On Timocrates

    i. "To hear virtue denied? Vice advocated? Atheism professed? Nocturnal Orgies!?"

    ii. "I (Epicurus) should apprehend Timocrates to be a little mistaken"

    iii. And quite possibly a liar

    1. It is easy to get away with lies when you tell absurdities

    iv. The first and last thing is to think for yourself

    D. "I am Epicurus

  • "Setting Before the Eyes"

    • Cassius
    • January 30, 2022 at 9:22 PM
    Quote from Don

    And I concur that the list of + and - is a valid practice but it's not "setting before the eyes."

    Well I didn't really mean to restrict the activity to words as much as I meant that when you envision the option you document it like on a check off list. But that's probably not the issue you guys are referring to. How do you envision "setting before the eyes"?

  • AFDIA - Chapter One - Text and Discussion

    • Cassius
    • January 30, 2022 at 7:32 PM

    Cassius Amicus is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.

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  • 2022 Epicurus vs Buddhism Compare and Contrast Thread

    • Cassius
    • January 30, 2022 at 6:04 PM

    We definitely have a truce!


    The "Life is Short, Pleasure is the good, and I want all the pleasure that I can get at a price in pain that I find reasonable" group are invited to dig in here and work with us to reconstruct a viable modern implementation of Epicurean philosophy.

    The "Tranquilist" camp has my best wishes, and those who are open minded and still thinking about that issue are welcome to study with us here. But those who are committed Tranqulism are ultimately welcome to post elsewhere, because Tranquilism (or any form of Humanism or other philosophy or religion that doesn't posit "Pleasure" to be the highest good) is something that I respectfully have to insist isn't compatible with Epicurean philosophy.

    But I really don't expect that to be a problem or cause many hard feelings. Those who confront the issue, and come to realize that they are committed to the logical position that something other than Pleasure is the highest good, usually have no problem realizing that their project isn't consistent with what we're doing here.

    :)

  • "A Few Days In Athens" Zoom Book Club Meeting #1: Who Was Frances Wright, Introduction, and Chapter One (Jan 30 8:00 PM EST) (Sun, Jan 30th 2022, 8:00 pm-9:00 pm)

    • Cassius
    • January 30, 2022 at 5:28 PM

    Thank you thank you thank you! That will take the pressure off my stream of consciousness approach.

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  • Website Overview page - clickable links arrranged by cards.
  • Forum Main Page - list of forums and subforums arranged by topic. Threads are posted according to relevant topics. The "Uncategorized subforum" contains threads which do not fall into any existing topic (also contains older "unfiled" threads which will soon be moved).
  • Search Tool - icon is located on the top right of every page. Note that the search box asks you what section of the forum you'd like to search. If you don't know, select "Everywhere."
  • Search By Key Tags - curated to show frequently-searched topics.
  • Full Tag List - an alphabetical list of all tags.

Resources

  1. Getting Started At EpicureanFriends
  2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
  3. The Major Doctrines of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  4. Introductory Videos
  5. Wiki
  6. Lucretius Today Podcast
    1. Podcast Episode Guide
  7. Key Epicurean Texts
    1. Chart Of Key Quotes
    2. Outline Of Key Quotes
    3. Side-By-Side Diogenes Laertius X (Bio And All Key Writings of Epicurus)
    4. Side-By-Side Lucretius - On The Nature Of Things
    5. Side-By-Side Torquatus On Ethics
    6. Side-By-Side Velleius on Divinity
    7. Lucretius Topical Outline
    8. Usener Fragment Collection
  8. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. FAQ Discussions
  9. Full List of Forums
    1. Physics Discussions
    2. Canonics Discussions
    3. Ethics Discussions
    4. All Recent Forum Activities
  10. Image Gallery
  11. Featured Articles
  12. Featured Blog Posts
  13. Quiz Section
  14. Activities Calendar
  15. Special Resource Pages
  16. File Database
  17. Site Map
    1. Home

Frequently Used Forums

  • Frequently Asked / Introductory Questions
  • News And Announcements
  • Lucretius Today Podcast
  • Physics (The Nature of the Universe)
  • Canonics (The Tests Of Truth)
  • Ethics (How To Live)
  • Against Determinism
  • Against Skepticism
  • The "Meaning of Life" Question
  • Uncategorized Discussion
  • Comparisons With Other Philosophies
  • Historical Figures
  • Ancient Texts
  • Decline of The Ancient Epicurean Age
  • Unsolved Questions of Epicurean History
  • Welcome New Participants
  • Events - Activism - Outreach
  • Full Forum List

Latest Posts

  • Happy Birthday General Thread

    Cassius April 20, 2026 at 4:05 AM
  • Recent Discovery of Empedocles Material

    Cassius April 19, 2026 at 4:17 PM
  • What would Epicurus have thought of going to the moon?

    Cassius April 19, 2026 at 3:15 PM
  • Innovations/Updates in Epicurus Philosophy

    Cassius April 19, 2026 at 7:15 AM
  • "Self-Evident" Truth

    Cassius April 19, 2026 at 6:57 AM
  • Welcome Morgan!

    wbernys April 19, 2026 at 12:04 AM
  • Have PD35 and Vatican Saying 7 been straw-manned?

    wbernys April 18, 2026 at 12:13 PM
  • Klavan's "Gateway To Epicureanism" (Note: The Title Is Part Of A "Gateway" Series - The Author Himself Is Strongly Anti-Epicurean)

    Cassius April 18, 2026 at 11:38 AM
  • Sunday April 19, 2026 - Zoom Meeting - Lucretius Book Review - Starting Book One Line 346 - More On Void

    Cassius April 18, 2026 at 12:14 AM
  • Episode 330 - EATAQ 12 - The Stoics Opt For Virtue At All Cost And Knowledge As Bodily Grasping

    Cassius April 17, 2026 at 11:44 PM

Frequently Used Tags

In addition to posting in the appropriate forums, participants are encouraged to reference the following tags in their posts:

  • #Physics
    • #Atomism
    • #Gods
    • #Images
    • #Infinity
    • #Eternity
    • #Life
    • #Death
  • #Canonics
    • #Knowledge
    • #Scepticism
  • #Ethics

    • #Pleasure
    • #Pain
    • #Engagement
    • #EpicureanLiving
    • #Happiness
    • #Virtue
      • #Wisdom
      • #Temperance
      • #Courage
      • #Justice
      • #Honesty
      • #Faith (Confidence)
      • #Suavity
      • #Consideration
      • #Hope
      • #Gratitude
      • #Friendship



Click Here To Search All Tags

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EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy

  1. Home
    1. About Us
    2. Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Wiki
    1. Getting Started
  3. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. Site Map
  4. Forum
    1. Latest Threads
    2. Featured Threads
    3. Unread Posts
  5. Texts
    1. Core Texts
    2. Biography of Epicurus
    3. Lucretius
  6. Articles
    1. Latest Articles
  7. Gallery
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  8. Calendar
    1. This Month At EpicureanFriends
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