1. New
    1. Member Announcements
  2. Home
    1. Get Started - Activities
    2. Posting Policies
    3. Community Standards
    4. Terms of Use
    5. Moderator Team
    6. Site Map
    7. Quizzes
    8. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
      2. Blog Posts at EpicureanFriends
  3. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  4. Forum
    1. New Activity
    2. New Threads
    3. Welcome
    4. General Discussion
    5. Featured
    6. Activism
    7. Shortcuts
    8. Dashboard
    9. Full Forum List
    10. Level 3+
    11. Most Discussed
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    5. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    6. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    7. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  • Login
  • Register
  • Search
This Thread

Welcome To EpicureanFriends.com!

"Remember that you are mortal, and you have a limited time to live, and in devoting yourself to discussion of the nature of time and eternity you have seen things that have been, are now, and are to come."

Sign In Now
or
Register a new account
  1. New
  2. Home
  3. Wiki
  4. Forum
  5. Podcast
  6. Texts
  7. Gallery
  8. Calendar
  9. Other
  1. Forum
    1. New Activity
    2. New Threads
    3. Welcome
    4. General Discussion
    5. Featured
    6. Activism
    7. Shortcuts
    8. Dashboard
    9. Full Forum List
    10. Level 3+
    11. Most Discussed
  1. EpicureanFriends - Home of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Forum
  3. Modern Books, Articles, and Videos
  4. Recommended Books
  5. A Few Days In Athens - Frances Wright
  6. A Few Days In Athens - Chapter Specific Threads
  • Sidebar
  • Sidebar

AFDIA - Chapter Eleven - Text and Discussion

  • Cassius
  • February 15, 2019 at 6:57 PM
  • Go to last post
Regularly Checking In On A Small Screen Device? Bookmark THIS page!
Western Hemisphere Zoom.  This Sunday, May 18th, at 12:30 PM EDT, we will have another zoom meeting at a time more convenient for our non-USA participants.   This will be another get-to-know-you meeting, followed by topical meetings later. For more details check here.
  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    101,804
    Posts
    13,936
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • February 15, 2019 at 6:57 PM
    • #1

    CHAPTER XI.

    The sun had far declined from his meridian, yet no cool breeze tempered the fervors of the heat. The air was chained in oppressive stillness, when suddenly a bustling wind shook the trees, and a low growling reverberated round the horizon. The scholars retired before the threatening storm; but Theon, his ear still filled with the musical voice of the sage, and his heart imbued with his gentle precepts, lingered to feed alone upon the thoughts they had awakened in him. "How mad is the folly of man," he said, as he threw his back against a tree. "Professing to admire wisdom and love virtue, and yet ever persecuting and slandering both. How vain is it to look for credit by teaching truth, or to seek fame by the road of virtue!"

    "Thy regret is idle, my son," said a well known voice in his ear.

    "Oh! my guardian spirit!" cried the startled youth — "Is it you ?"

    "I linger," said the Gargettian, "to watch the approach of the storm, and I suppose you do the same."

    "No," returned the youth; "I hardly heeded the heavens."

    "They are singular, however, at this moment." Theon looked where the sage pointed; a dark mass of vapors was piled upon the head of Hymettus, from which two columns, shooting forth like the branches of some giant oak, spread themselves over the sky. The opposing sun, fast traveling to the horizon, looked red through the heated atmosphere, and flashed a deep glare on their murky sides. Soon half the landscape was blackened with the sinking clouds, that each moment increasing in bulk and density, seemed to touch the bosom of the earth. The western half glowed with a brilliant light, like molten gold. The distant outline was marked with a pencil of fire, while the gardens and villas that speckled the plain, seemed illuminated in jubilee.

    "See," said the sage, stretching his hand towards the gilded scene; "see the image of that fame which is not founded in virtue. Thus bright may it shine for a moment, but the cloud of oblivion or infamy comes fast to cover its glory."

    "Is it so?" said Theon. "Do not the vile of the earth fill the tongues of men, and are not the noble forgotten? Does not the titled murderer inscribe his name on the tablets of eternity, with the sword which is dipped in the blood of his fellows? And does not the man who has spent his youth, and manhood, and age, in the courts of wisdom — who has planted peace at the hearth, and given truth to the rising age, does he not go down to the grave in silence, his bones unhonored, and his name forgotten?"

    "Possibly his name; but, if he have planted peace at the hearth, and given truth to the rising age, surely not his better part — his virtues. Do not confound noise with fame. The man who is remembered, is not always honored; and reflect, what a man toils for, that probably will he win. The titled murderer, who weaves his fate with that of empires, will with them go down to posterity. The sage, who does his work in the silence of retirement, unobserved in his own generation, will pass into the silence of the grave, unknown to the future."

    "But suppose he be known. How few worshipers should crowd to his shrine, and what millions to that of the other!"

    "And those few, my son, who are they? The wise of the earth, the enlightened patriot, the discerning philosopher. And who are the millions? The ignorant, the prejudiced, and the idle. Nor yet, let us so wrong the reason of our species, as to say, that they always give honor to the mischievous rather than the useful — gratitude to their oppressors, rather than their benefactor. In instances they may be blind, but in the gross they are just. The splendor of action, the daring of enterprise, or the glitter of majesty, may seize their imagination, and so drown their judgment; but never is it the tyranny of power, the wantonness of cruelty, the brutality of vice, which they adore, any more than it is the innocence and usefulness of virtue, which they despise. The united experience of mankind has pronounced virtue to be the great good: nay, so universal is the conviction, that even those who insult her in their practice, bow to her in their understanding. Man is for the most part more fool than knave, more weak than depraved in action, more ignorant than vicious in judgment; and seldom is he so weak and so ignorant, as not to see his own interest, and value him who promotes it. But say that he often slanders the virtuous, and persecutes the wise; he does it more in error than from depravity. He is credulous, and on the report of malice, takes virtue for hypocrisy; — he is superstitious, and some of the truths of wisdom appear to him profane. Say he does homage to vice —you will find when he does it, he believes her to be virtue. Hypocrisy has masked her deformity, or talent decked her with beauty. Is here, then, subject for wrath? Rather, surely, for compassion. Is here matter for disgust? Rather, surely, for exertion. The darker the ignorance, the more praise to the sage who dispels it; — the deeper the prejudice, more fame to the courage which braves it. But may the courage be vain? May the sage fall the victim of the ignorance he combats? He may; he often has. But ere he engage, knows he not the risk? The risk is to himself; the profit to mankind. To a benevolent soul, the odds is worth the throw; and though it be against him at the present, he may win it in the future. The sage, whose vision is cleared from the mists of prejudice, can stretch it over the existing age, to the kindling horizon of the succeeding, and see, perhaps, unborn generations weeping the injustice of their fathers, and worshiping those truths which they condemned. Or is it otherwise? Lives he in the old age of the world, and does he see the stream of time flowing through a soil yet more rank with prejudice and evil? Say then — were the praise of such a world a fit object of his ambition, or shall he be jealous of the fame which ignorance yields to the unworthy? But any way, my son, it is not the voice of fame that we should seek in the practice of virtue, but the peace of self-satisfaction. The object of the sage is to make himself independent of all that he cannot command within himself. Yet, when I speak of independence, I mean not indifference; while we make ourselves sufficient for ourselves, we need not forget the crowd about us. We are not wise in the contempt of others but in calm approbation of ourselves."

    "Still dost thou droop thy head, my son?" said the gentle philosopher, laying a hand on the shoulder of his young friend.

    "Your words sink deep into my soul," replied Theon; "yet they have not chased the melancholy they found there. I have not such a world in myself as to be independent of that about me, nor can I forgive the offenses of my fellows, merely because they commit them from ignorance. Nay, is not their very ignorance often a crime, when the voice of truth is whispering in their ear?"

    "And if they do not hear her whisper in the one ear, it is because prejudice is crying aloud into the other."

    "Prejudice! I hate prejudice," said Theon.

    "And so do I," said the master.

    "Yes, but I am provoked with it."

    "I suspect that will not remove the evil."

    "Nothing will remove it. It is inherent in men's nature."

    "Then as we are men, it may be inherent in ours. Trust me, my son, it is better to correct ourselves, than to find fault with our neighbors."

    "But is it not allowed to do both? Can we help seeing the errors of the world in which we live, and seeing, can we help being angry at them?"

    "Certainly not the seeing them, but I hope, very possibly, the being angry with them. He that loses temper with the folly of others, shows that he has folly himself. In which case they have as much right to complain of his, as he of theirs. And have I not been trying to show you, that when you are wise you will be independent of all that you cannot command within yourself? You say you are not so now. I admit it, but when you are wise you will be so. And till you are wise, you have surely no title to quarrel with another's ignorance."

    "I can never be independent of my friends," returned Theon. "I must ever feel the injustice done to them though I might be regardless of that which affected merely myself."

    "Why so? What would enable you to disregard that done to yourself?"

    "Conscious innocence. Pride, if you will. Contempt of the folly and ignorance of my judges."

    "Well, and are you less conscious of the innocence of your friend? If you are, where is your indignation? And if you are not, have you less pride for him than for yourself? Do you respect that folly and ignorance in his judges, that you despise in your own?"

    "I believe it will not stand argument," said Theon. "But you must forgive me if, when I contemplate Epicurus, I feel indignant at the slander which dares to breathe upon his purity."

    "And do you think you were yourself an object of indignation, when you spoke of him as a monster of vice ?"

    "Yes, I feel I was."

    "But he felt otherwise," said the master, "and which, think you, is likely to feel most wisely ?"

    "Ah! I hope it is Epicurus," said the youth, snatching his instructor's hand. This conversation was here interrupted by the bursting of the storm. The fire flashed round the horizon, the thunder cracked over the zenith, and the first big drops fell from the burdened clouds. "We are near the Temple," said the sage, "let us seek shelter under its portico. We may watch the storm there, without a wet skin." They had hardly gained it, when the rain poured down in torrents. Ilisus, whom the burning sun had of late faded into a feeble rill, soon filled and overflowed his bed; wave after wave, in sudden swell, came roaring down, as if he now first burst to life from the womb of his parent mountain. But the violence of the storm soon spent its strength. Already the thunder broke with longer intervals, and a faint light, like the opening of morning, gleamed over the western heavens. At length the sun cleared his barrier of clouds. He stood on the verge of the waves, and shot his level rays over the blazing Salamis and the glistening earth. The sage stood with his young friend in silent admiration, when the eye of the latter was attracted by a horseman, who came full gallop over the plain, directly towards them. The object of his attention had nearly reached the river, when he perceived the rider to be a female. The swift feet of the steed now touched the opposing bank. "Great Jove, he will not attempt the passage," exclaimed the youth, as he sprung towards the river. "Stop, stop," he cried. She checked the rein, but too late. The animal, accustomed to the passage, and blinded by speed, plunged into the flood. Theon tore his robe from his shoulders, and was about to make the plunge on his side, when he was grasped by Epicurus.

    "Be not rash. The horse is strong, and the rider skillful." The voice that uttered these words was calm and distinct, but its wonted music was changed into the deep tone of suppressed horror. Even at that moment, the accent struck Theon's ear.

    "Do you know her? Is she your friend? Is she dear to you? If so" — he made another effort to throw himself forward, but was still restrained by Epicurus. He looked into the philosopher's face. There was no motion in it, save a quivering round the mouth, while the eyes were fixed in aching gaze on the struggling animal. He breasted the water midway, when seemingly frightened at the rapidity of the current, he tried to turn. The rider saw the danger, she curbed the rein, she tried with voice and effort to urge him to the conflict. Theon looked again at the sage. He saw he had loosened his mantle, and was prepared to try the flood. "I conjure you, by the gods!" said the youth, "what is my life to yours?" He grasped the sage in his turn. "Let me save her! I will save her — I swear it." They both struggled a moment for the leap. "I swear," continued Theon, with furious energy, "that if you go I will follow." He made another effort, and dashed from the hold of Epicurus into the river. Naturally strong, he was doubly so at this moment. He felt not fear, he saw not danger. In a moment he was in the centre of the current —another stroke, and he had seized the mane of the steed. But the terrified animal even then gave way to the stream. The rider still struggled for her seat. But her strength fast failed, she stretched out her hand with a feeble cry of despair. Theon shot forward yet swifter than the tide; he drove with a shock against the horse, and caught with one arm the expiring girl. Then, half yielding to the current, he parted with the other the roaring waters, and with effort almost superhuman, grappled with their fury. Panting, choking, bewildered, yet never relaxing, he reached, but he knew not how, the land. When he recovered recollection, he found himself lying on a couch, in the arms of Epicurus. "Where am I," he said, "and where is the lovely girl?"

    "Safe, safe, as her generous deliverer. Oh, my son! now indeed my son, when I owe to thee my Hedeia."

    "Was it your adopted child, then," cried the youth, with a shout of delirious joy, as he threw himself on the breast of the sage. "But tell me," he said, rising and looking round on Metrodorus, who, with two other scholars, stood beside the couch, "how came I here?"

    "I believe," said Metrodorus, "the master swam to your aid — at least we found him lifting you and Hedeia from the water."

    "I watched your strength, my son, and reserved mine till it should fail; when I observed it do so, I came to your assistance. Now, compose yourself awhile, and I will go and put myself into a dry tunic.”

  • Cassius February 5, 2022 at 7:53 AM

    Changed the title of the thread from “AFDIA - Chapter Eleven” to “AFDIA - Chapter Eleven - Text and Discussion”.
  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    101,804
    Posts
    13,936
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • April 12, 2022 at 4:45 PM
    • #2

    As we previewed last week, this Chapter 11 is the long-awaited "Epicurus wades into the roaring stream as a man of action to save the day" Chapter.

    This is going to be one of our best opportunities to marshal together all the citations and arguments we can muster (a good military analogy) to make the point that Epicureans are not pointy-headed intellectuals who live passively in their caves, so please be thinking about material we can talk about in addition to the Seneca reference to the lost letter to Idomeneus about taking action "seasonably"


    Post

    RE: AFDIA - Chapter Eight - Text and Discussion

    And here's the graphic by Elli with her commentary:

    epicureanfriends.com/wcf/attachment/2623/

    Posts by Elli at Facebook:

    Hi Cassius🙂. this fragment is from Epicurus' epistle to Idomeneus "on the urgent need for action" (survived by Seneca). I remember that I've made this graphic long time ago as I connected this fragment with Odysseus, and how he escaped from the cave of Polyphemus.

    This fragment by Epicurus is against "fatalism and apathy", so I made and this post. …
    Cassius
    April 3, 2022 at 5:04 AM


    Post

    RE: AFDIA - Chapter Eight - Text and Discussion

    And here's the graphic by Elli with her commentary:

    epicureanfriends.com/wcf/attachment/2623/

    Posts by Elli at Facebook:

    Hi Cassius🙂. this fragment is from Epicurus' epistle to Idomeneus "on the urgent need for action" (survived by Seneca). I remember that I've made this graphic long time ago as I connected this fragment with Odysseus, and how he escaped from the cave of Polyphemus.

    This fragment by Epicurus is against "fatalism and apathy", so I made and this post. …
    Cassius
    April 3, 2022 at 5:04 AM

    Images

    • pasted-from-clipboard.png
      • 440.45 kB
      • 738 × 524
      • 3
  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    101,804
    Posts
    13,936
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • April 12, 2022 at 5:18 PM
    • #3

    Another point of reference, from David Sedley's "Ethics of Brutus and Cassius"

    Quote

    If the aim of Brutus' question was to test Statilius' suitability as a conspirator against Caesar, it must have been one which Brutus knew an Epicurean could in principle answer either way. That is, if Statilius had been sympathetic to the conspiracy -like its instigator his fellow Epicurean Cassius -he might in principle have given the positive answer that the wise should be prepared to sacrifice tranquillity on account of non-philosophers: otherwise there would have been little point in Brutus' putting the question to him. Indeed, since Brutus had already discussed the conspiracy with Cassius, it is a reasonable guess that his test question about jeopardizing one's ataraxia for the public good somehow borrowed from Cassius' own moral reasoning with regard to the assassination.

    This constitutes indirect but not negligible evidence that Cassius saw in the current political situation factors which might justify even Epicurean sages in sacrificing their own tranquil detachment. It was, as a matter of fact, an Epicurean tenet already familiar to Cicero (Rep. 1.10) that in exceptional crises the 'no politics' rule might have to be suspended.31 We have no direct evidence as to how such crises were specified or how the suspension was defended on Epicurean principles. One plausible guess might have been that it was simply a prudential matter of the wise accepting short-term worry for the sake of their own greater long-term tranquillity -for example, working for improved social or political conditions which will, once established, safeguard an Epicurean lifestyle. But Brutus' question implies a very different rationale: it implies that the wise were supposed by some contemporary Epicureans, perhaps including Cassius, to be on occasion driven by an overriding sense of obligation to their non-philosophical fellow-citizens.

    3 1 cf. Sen., De Otio 3.2, where it is attributed to Epicurus himself. For further discussion of this and other Epicurean principles regarding political involvement, see Fowler, op. cit. (n. I).

    NOTE: That last note appears to be a reference to D. Fowler, Lucretius and Politics', 120-50.


    NOTE 2 -- Sedley seems to be concerned about a conflict between Cassius' Epicurean views and the "public good." I see no reason to focus on that - the issue was the good (the future pleasure and happy living) of Cassius and his friends - not some abstract "public good." Cassius need not have been concerned about the future of his Rome because he was concerned about the public good - it would be equally or more reasonable for him to be evaluating the future under Caesar for its impact on the happiness of himself and his friends (however wide a group he construed that to be).

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    101,804
    Posts
    13,936
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • April 17, 2022 at 2:51 PM
    • #4

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    101,804
    Posts
    13,936
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • April 17, 2022 at 2:53 PM
    • #5

    Starting at this point in the thread which discusses Philodemus on Anger are a number of slides / quotes that would also be relevant to today's chapter, both on the issue of anger itself, which is discussed in the first part of the chapter, and as to taking action when appropriate, which is discussed in the second.

    I would say that Frances Wright is a little too flatly against "anger" than the Philodemus text reveals, and that she would have been better off with the same subtly she shows to "taking action" and also as to feeling the pain of the death of a loved one - in both of which cases a firm and even emotional response can be appropriate under certain circumstances.

    And in fact perhaps the subtly is in fact there, such as in the scene in the prior chapter where Epicurus appears to get angry with Metrodorus for endorsing anger!

    Post

    RE: Epicurean Views On How To Integrate "Anger" Into A Healthy Life

    In terms of commentary, the Preface helpfully suggests that those wanting an immediate overview should refer to sections 4 and 5 of the Introduction. I see that section 3 discusses the prior position of Plato and Aristotle, so that looks good too.

    Here is a good baseline for comparison with the stoics: The Stoics held that there is no such thing as any kind of rational or natural anger, and this will be different from the Epicurean position, who are apparently going to focus on "vengeance" as…
    Cassius
    April 1, 2022 at 5:49 PM
  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    101,804
    Posts
    13,936
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • April 23, 2022 at 11:47 AM
    • #6

    Our Recorded Session for Chapter 11 Is Now Available:

Unread Threads

    1. Title
    2. Replies
    3. Last Reply
    1. Analysing movies through an Epicurean lens 16

      • Like 1
      • Rolf
      • May 12, 2025 at 4:54 PM
      • General Discussion
      • Rolf
      • May 19, 2025 at 12:45 AM
    2. Replies
      16
      Views
      825
      16
    3. Matteng

      May 19, 2025 at 12:45 AM
    1. ⟐ as the symbol of the philosophy of Epicurus 58

      • Like 1
      • michelepinto
      • March 18, 2021 at 11:59 AM
      • General Discussion
      • michelepinto
      • May 17, 2025 at 9:14 PM
    2. Replies
      58
      Views
      8.6k
      58
    3. kochiekoch

      May 17, 2025 at 9:14 PM
    1. "All Models Are Wrong, But Some Are Useful" 4

      • Like 2
      • Cassius
      • January 21, 2024 at 11:21 AM
      • General Discussion
      • Cassius
      • May 14, 2025 at 1:49 PM
    2. Replies
      4
      Views
      1.2k
      4
    3. kochiekoch

      May 14, 2025 at 1:49 PM
    1. Is All Desire Painful? How Would Epicurus Answer? 24

      • Like 1
      • Cassius
      • May 7, 2025 at 10:02 PM
      • General Discussion
      • Cassius
      • May 10, 2025 at 3:42 PM
    2. Replies
      24
      Views
      1.2k
      24
    3. sanantoniogarden

      May 10, 2025 at 3:42 PM
    1. Pompeii Then and Now 7

      • Like 2
      • kochiekoch
      • January 22, 2025 at 1:19 PM
      • General Discussion
      • kochiekoch
      • May 8, 2025 at 3:50 PM
    2. Replies
      7
      Views
      1.1k
      7
    3. kochiekoch

      May 8, 2025 at 3:50 PM

Latest Posts

  • Analysing movies through an Epicurean lens

    Matteng May 19, 2025 at 12:45 AM
  • What Makes Someone "An Epicurean?"

    Patrikios May 18, 2025 at 4:09 PM
  • Personal mottos?

    Kalosyni May 18, 2025 at 9:22 AM
  • The Garland of Tranquility and a Reposed Life

    Kalosyni May 18, 2025 at 9:07 AM
  • ⟐ as the symbol of the philosophy of Epicurus

    kochiekoch May 17, 2025 at 9:14 PM
  • May 20, 2025 Twentieth Gathering Via Zoom Agenda

    Kalosyni May 17, 2025 at 1:50 PM
  • Telling Time in Ancient Greece and Rome

    Don May 17, 2025 at 12:59 PM
  • Introductory Level Study Group via Zoom - May 18, 2025 12:30pm EDT

    Cassius May 16, 2025 at 9:10 AM
  • Episode 281 - Is Pain An Evil? - Part One - Not Yet Recorded

    Cassius May 15, 2025 at 5:45 AM
  • Happy Birthday General Thread

    Cassius May 15, 2025 at 4:07 AM

Tags

  • History.Texts.AFewDaysInAthens

EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy

  1. Home
    1. About Us
    2. Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Wiki
    1. Getting Started
  3. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. Site Map
  4. Forum
    1. Latest Threads
    2. Featured Threads
    3. Unread Posts
  5. Texts
    1. Core Texts
    2. Biography of Epicurus
    3. Lucretius
  6. Articles
    1. Latest Articles
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured Images
  8. Calendar
    1. This Month At EpicureanFriends
Powered by WoltLab Suite™ 6.0.22
Style: Inspire by cls-design
Stylename
Inspire
Manufacturer
cls-design
Licence
Commercial styles
Help
Supportforum
Visit cls-design
  • Everywhere
  • This Thread
  • This Forum
  • Forum
  • Articles
  • Blog Articles
  • Files
  • Gallery
  • Events
  • Pages
  • Wiki
  • Help
  • FAQ
  • More Options
foo
Save Quote