1. Home
    1. Study Guide
    2. Community Standards
    3. Site Map
    4. Quizzes
    5. Articles On Physics
    6. Articles On Canonics
    7. Articles On Ethics
    8. All Articles
    9. Elli's Blog Posts
    10. Kalosyni's Blog
    11. All Blog Posts
  2. Lexicon
    1. Lexicon Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Files
    4. Search Assistance
    5. Foundations
    6. Navigation Outlines
    7. Reading List
    8. Key Pages
    9. Last Changes
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Ancient Texts Forum
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Forum Shortcuts
    8. Forum Navigation Map
    9. Featured
    10. Most Discussed
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
    4. Search By Tag
    5. Complete Tag List
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Torquatus On Ethics
    3. Velleius On Divinity
    4. Diogenes Laertius
    5. Principal Doctrines
    6. Vatican Collection
    7. Lucretius
    8. Herodotus
    9. Pythocles
    10. Menoeceus
    11. Fragments - Usener Collection
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Latest Images
    2. Featured images
    3. Latest Comments
  8. More
    1. Featured Content
    2. Logbook
    3. EF ToDo List
  • Login
  • Register
  • Search
This Thread
  • Everywhere
  • This Thread
  • This Forum
  • Forum
  • Articles
  • Blog Articles
  • Files
  • Gallery
  • Pages
  • Wiki
  • FAQ
  • More Options
  1. EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Forum
  3. Comparisons With Other Philosophies
  4. Epicurus vs. Democritus And The Atomic Determinists

Did Democritus Think That Atoms Can Be Alive?

  • Cassius
  • April 3, 2025 at 2:40 PM
  • Go to last post
  • Cassius
    5 - Administrator
    • I Too Am An Epicurean
    • Advocate
    • Lucretius Today Podcast Co-Host
    • 2025 Contributor
    • Active Member 5 Years or more
    Points
    115,825
    Posts
    15,958
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • April 3, 2025 at 2:40 PM
    • #1

    In this week's Lucretius Today podcast (Episode 274), Cicero relates this about Democritus (the underlined section):

    Quote from Tusculan Disputations - Part 1 - Section XVIII

    I will have nothing at all to do with that fortuitous concourse of individual light and round bodies, notwithstanding Democritus insists on their being warm, and having breath, that is to say, life. But this soul, which is compounded of either of the four principles from which we assert that all things are derived, is of inflamed air, as seems particularly to have been the opinion of Panætius, and must necessarily mount upwards; for air and fire have no tendency downwards, but always ascend; so should they be dissipated, that must be at some distance from the earth; but should they remain, and preserve their original state, it is clearer still that they must be carried heavenward; and this gross and concrete air, which is nearest the earth, must be divided and broken by them; for the soul is warmer, or rather hotter than that air, which I just now called gross and concrete; and this may be made evident from this consideration,—that our bodies, being compounded of the earthy class of principles, grow warm by the heat of the soul.


    Thus the question in the title - Democritus did not apparently come up with the swerve, but did he think that atoms can be alive?


    I checked and I don't think we have made any effort to make up a chart of differences between Epicurus and Democritus, and we need to develop one. If anyone already has one or knows of links please post, and let's develop one. There seem to be many and deep differences and we need to have this information readily available. Democritus was certainly a great man, but did he fully break from supernatural religion? That, at the very least, needs to be something we are very clear about.

  • TauPhi
    Guest
    • August 25, 2025 at 7:08 PM
    • #2

    A good place to start would be 'Die Fragmente der Vorsokratiker' (The Fragments of the Pre-Socratics) by Hermann Diels (1903). This book would probably answer all your questions. Unfortunately, it's never been translated into English. The good news is we have the next best thing - 2 books by Kathleen Freeman:

    1) 'The Pre-Socratic Philosophers; A Companion to Diels, Fragmente der Vorsokratiker' (1946)
    2) 'Ancilla to the pre-Socratic philosophers: a complete translation of the fragments in Diels, Fragmente der Vorsokratiker' (1948)

    1) is available on archive.org. If you have an hour or so to spare, read through pages 285-326. The amount of information, heavily supported by testimonia and actual fragments, is all you can wish for and then some more. The arrangement by subject-matter is also helpful to quickly see similarities and differences between Democritus and Epicurus.

    The Pre-socratic Philosophers : Kathleen Freeman : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
    Book Source: Digital Library of India Item 2015.276045dc.contributor.author: Kathleen Freemandc.date.accessioned: 2015-07-29T20:12:21Zdc.date.available:...
    archive.org

    2) is not available on archive.org but it's digitally available at 'sacred-texts' website (link below). The link will take you to the ancilla containing fragments of plethora of Pre-Socratics. It's the only place online I'm aware of where all Democritus' fragments are available in English.

    Ancilla to the Pre-Socratic Philosophers Index | Sacred Texts Archive
    Classical Greek and Roman texts including mythology, philosophy, and literature. Browse 92+ texts in this comprehensive collection.
    www.sacred-texts.com

Resources

  1. Getting Started At EpicureanFriends
  2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
  3. The Major Doctrines of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  4. Introductory Videos
  5. Lexicon
  6. Lucretius Today Podcast
    1. Podcast Episode Guide
  7. Key Epicurean Texts
    1. Chart Of Key Quotes
    2. Outline Of Key Quotes
    3. Side-By-Side Diogenes Laertius X (Bio And All Key Writings of Epicurus)
    4. Side-By-Side Lucretius - On The Nature Of Things
    5. Side-By-Side Torquatus On Ethics
    6. Side-By-Side Velleius on Divinity
    7. Lucretius Topical Outline
    8. Usener Fragment Collection
  8. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. FAQ Discussions
  9. Full List of Forums
    1. Physics Discussions
    2. Canonics Discussions
    3. Ethics Discussions
    4. All Recent Forum Activities
  10. Image Gallery
  11. Featured Articles
  12. Featured Blog Posts
  13. Quiz Section
  14. Special Resource Pages
  15. File Database
  16. Site Map
    1. Home

Frequently Used Forums

  • Frequently Asked / Introductory Questions
  • News And Announcements
  • Lucretius Today Podcast
  • Physics (The Nature of the Universe)
  • Canonics (The Tests Of Truth)
  • Ethics (How To Live)
  • Against Determinism
  • Against Skepticism
  • The "Meaning of Life" Question
  • Uncategorized Discussion
  • Comparisons With Other Philosophies
  • Historical Figures
  • Ancient Writers and Texts
  • Decline of The Ancient Epicurean Age
  • Unsolved Questions of Epicurean History
  • Welcome New Participants
  • Events - Activism - Outreach
  • Full Forum List

Latest Posts

  1. Episode 359 - EATAQ41 - Cicero Begins His Defense of Academic Skepticism

    Cassius
    November 10, 2026 at 4:55 AM
  2. Under What Circumstances, If Any, Would An Epicurean Choose A Course That Produced (For Example) 98% Pleasure And 2% Pain Over A Course That Was 100% Pleasure and 0% Pain?

    Cassius
    November 9, 2026 at 1:52 PM
  3. Welcome DevinH!

    Godfrey
    November 8, 2026 at 6:52 PM
  4. Using AI to create flow charts of Lucretius' De Rerum Natura

    Cassius
    November 7, 2026 at 3:41 PM
  5. Does Self-Determination Theory Fit in With Epicurean Philosophy?

    Cassius
    November 7, 2026 at 3:34 PM
  6. Episode 358 - EATAQ40 - The Hypocrisy And Darkness of Academic Skepticism

    Cassius
    November 6, 2026 at 4:00 PM
  7. Music and Auditory Pleasure and Neuroscience - transcript of interview

    Kalosyni
    November 4, 2026 at 1:31 PM
  8. Welcome Thomas Karion!

    Kalosyni
    November 3, 2026 at 10:10 AM
  9. Should Epicureans Celebrate Something Else Instead of Celebrating Halloween?

    Cassius
    November 3, 2026 at 9:36 AM
  10. Happy Halloween 2026 - Death is Nothing to Us!

    Joshua
    November 1, 2026 at 11:42 AM

Frequently Used Tags

In addition to posting in the appropriate forums, participants are encouraged to reference the following tags in their posts:

  • #Physics
    • #Atomism
    • #Gods
    • #Images
    • #Infinity
    • #Eternity
    • #Life
    • #Death
  • #Canonics
    • #Knowledge
    • #Scepticism
  • #Ethics

    • #Pleasure
    • #Pain
    • #Engagement
    • #EpicureanLiving
    • #Happiness
    • #Virtue
      • #Wisdom
      • #Temperance
      • #Courage
      • #Justice
      • #Honesty
      • #Faith (Confidence)
      • #Suavity
      • #Consideration
      • #Hope
      • #Gratitude
      • #Friendship



Click Here To Search All Tags

To Suggest Additions To This List Click Here

Similar Threads

  • Episode 240 - Cicero's OTNOTG 15 - The False Allegation That "General Assent" Was The Epicurean Basis For Divinity

    • Cassius
    • August 1, 2024 at 1:04 PM
    • The Lucretius Today Podcast

EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy

  1. Home
    1. About Us
    2. Classical Epicurean Philosophy
    3. Rules, Terms & Policies
  2. Lexicon
    1. Getting Started
  3. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. Site Map
  4. Forum
    1. Latest Threads
    2. Featured Threads
    3. Unread Posts
  5. Texts
    1. Core Texts
    2. Biography of Epicurus
    3. Lucretius
  6. Articles
    1. Latest Articles
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured Images
  8. Calendar
    1. This Month At EpicureanFriends
Powered by WoltLab Suite™ 6.2.9
Style: Inspire by cls-design
Stylename
Inspire
Manufacturer
cls-design
Licence
Commercial styles
Help
Supportforum
Visit cls-design