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Wednesday Night Zoom - Focusing On Usener's Epicurea - Find Notices About This Month's Meeting Here!

  • Kalosyni
  • March 28, 2024 at 11:05 AM
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    • September 26, 2024 at 10:26 AM
    • #61

    For our Wednesday Zoom of October 2nd, 2024, we will be resuming the Epicurea discussion at [U67] on page 187/188 of the current PDF. For the latest copy, click here and go to the last post in that thread.

    The topic of U67 is discussion of references to Epicurus' Work "On The End-Goal," which began at the Section 45 heading on page 186.

    While we don't have any surviving copies of "On The End-Goal," this section of Usener collects references which preserve for us some of what Epicurus wrote in that work.

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    • October 3, 2024 at 9:29 AM
    • #62

    For next Wednesday, October 09, we will wrap up discussion on U67 and the implications of the various recorded statements of Epicurus to the effect of:

    • And indeed Epíkouros, while not hiding himself, says loudly "I myself am not able to conceive the good – if I removed the pleasure from flavor, and removed the pleasure from Aphrodisian activities." For this wise man believes that even the life of profligates can be irreproachable – if It should be safe and favorable for one of them! Therefore, the Poets of comedy, who are perhaps disdainful of pleasure and intemperance, call out the Epicureans and Followers.

    We are going to focus especially on the first sentence of this passage, but I have left the remainder of the quote so we can see the manner in which it is combined with PD10 for purposes of disparagement. This point "I myself am not able to conceive the good...." will also be a focus to be covered in our "First Monday" meeting of October.

    Find the full U67 on page 188 of Bryan's PDF version of Epicurea here:

    https://www.epicureanfriends.com/wcf/attachment/4995-epicurea-9-11-pdf/

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    • October 10, 2024 at 8:09 AM
    • #63

    On October 16 we will start with the following text, which is part of [U67] and on page 191 of the current PDF

    Cicero, De Finibus, 2.29

    he truly does not see the greatest argument is: that this [kinetic] pleasure – which, when removed, He denies that he understands at all what the good is(but he nevertheless pursues it in this way: That which is perceived by the palate, That [which is perceived] by the ears; He adds other things, which, if You mention, Honor must [also] be proclaimed) – this [kinetic pleasure], therefore, which the severe and serious Philosopher knows to be "the sole good," he likewise does not see that it should not even be sought, because, according to this same author, We do not long for that pleasure when We are free from pain

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    • October 17, 2024 at 9:09 AM
    • #64

    Wednesday October 23 we will pick up the discussion on page 194 of the current PDF which is the beginning of Section 48 - On Nature. Bryan is including in this section excerpts from On Nature which are not in Usener's collection, so the PDF may change before our meeting next week.

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    • October 23, 2024 at 10:20 PM
    • #65

    Wednesday October 30 we will again pick the discussion on page 194 of the current PDF which is the beginning of Section 48 - On Nature. On October 23 we had an excellent discussion including a significant summary presented by Tau Phi, which we appreciate very much. Unless something new and unexpected comes up, on the 30th we will likely begin the text on page 194.

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    • October 30, 2024 at 7:34 AM
    • #66

    Under the "New Items" section of our normal agenda tonight let's discuss briefly what we know about the new collection of essays on Epicurean Philosophy brought to our attention by Matteng:

    Post

    RE: Epicureanism and Scientific Debates Epicurean Tradition and its Ancient Reception - New (2023) Collection of Commentaries

    Yes there is a Volume 1 it is about other topics,: language, medicine and metereology

    https://www.academia.edu/107573476/Epic…_Late_Reception
    Matteng
    October 30, 2024 at 5:37 AM
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    • November 13, 2024 at 9:50 PM
    • #67

    Tonight we resumed discussion of Usener's Epicurea and began discussion of the section On Nature. Next week will be the 20th, so on 11/27, for those who can make Thanksgiving Eve, we will pick up with section 2.2 On Films (images) on page 220 of the PDF.

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    • November 13, 2024 at 10:18 PM
    • #68

    My phone battery died mid-call, sorry to have missed the end!

  • Kalosyni
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    • November 14, 2024 at 6:41 AM
    • #69
    Quote from Joshua

    My phone battery died mid-call, sorry to have missed the end!

    Oh no! We missed you.

    Last night you said something really good about the nature of justice and also quoted Thomas Jefferson...wondering if you have written anything or can write on that? I think it is an important topic. (We do have this sub-forum).

  • Cassius December 4, 2024 at 7:40 PM

    Changed the title of the thread from “Wednesday Night Zoom - Focusing On Usener's Epicurea” to “Wednesday Night Zoom - Focusing On Usener's Epicurea - Find Notices About This Month's Meeting Here!”.
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    • February 20, 2025 at 9:53 AM
    • #70

    On February 26 we'll pick up in the Usener discussion at 25.23 Silent Memorization, page 333 of the current PDF.

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    • March 5, 2025 at 9:12 PM
    • #71

    On March 12 we will pick up in the PDF around topic 25.31 - Emergent Causation.

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    • March 5, 2025 at 9:38 PM
    • #72

    I thought I would clarify a statement I made tonight:

    Bryan raised the point that the swerve was not discussed at length in the section of Lucretius devoted to the operation of the soul/mind. i raised that I thought the swerve was mentioned in regard to the racehorse analogy and that I thought that might be in book two but wasn't sure.

    After checking, yes, the famous references to the swerve comes near the beginning of Book TWO, while the majority of discussion of the Soul/mind is in Book THREE.

    And that reminds me that I find it tricky to fit the six books into neat packages. Book two seems to be more of a discussion of the movement of atoms, while three is more focused on the human soul. But while it's pretty easy to see that Book three is focused on the soul being mortal and leading to a discussion of death at the end, It's not so clear to me how Lucretius came to a decision in his own mind as to what to include about the atoms in book one as against book two.


    • [2:216] But atoms are not carried downward in a straight line at no fixed time and no fixed place, the atoms swerve slightly from the fixed path downward, and we know this because if they did not do so, no collisions would ever occur to bring all bodies into being.
    • [2:225] Do not think that these collisions could have been brought about by heavier atoms falling onto lighter ones, because all atoms move through the void at equal speed. It is the swerve that brings about collisions, but this swerve is no more than the very least change in direction, and certainly not sideways. We can plainly see that bodies on their own cannot travel sideways, but our senses are not strong enough to detect the deviation of the swerve from the straight downward path.
    • [2:251] If all motions were predetermined from prior motions without any swerve of the atoms, all events would be decreed by fate, and there would be no free will for living things, but due to the swerve we have free will to move and follow pleasure where it leads our minds to choose.
    • [2:263] An example of this is the racehorse, straining against the barriers, which desires first in its mind to burst forth from the gates before the movement is carried from the minds to the body and limbs.
    • [2:271] Another example is how we can decide in our minds to resist blows or forces from outside ourselves.
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    • March 5, 2025 at 10:03 PM
    • #73
    Quote from Cassius

    And that reminds me that I find it tricky to fit the six books into neat packages.

    I always liked the overall structure of De Rerum Natura presented in the lecture below. If you don't feel like watching the whole thing, start at 5th minute and within the next ten minutes, all books will neatly fit into the packages you require.

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    • March 5, 2025 at 10:34 PM
    • #74

    David Sedley attempts a reconstruction of Epicurus's On Nature in his book Lucretius and the Transformation of Greek Wisdom, and explores the Roman poet's reception and restructuring of the work of Epicurus as he wove it into his own poem. That would be the first place to look!

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    • March 6, 2025 at 6:46 AM
    • #75

    Just a reminder to Martin and TauPhi that Daylight savings time kicks in on March 9th -- the USA goes one hour forward.

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    • March 12, 2025 at 9:25 PM
    • #76

    On March 19 we will begin on page 354 of the PDF with section 25.35 [Character, Passageways] Epíkouros, Peri Phýseōs, Book 25, P.Herc. 1191 fr. 109

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    • April 16, 2025 at 9:30 PM
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    • #77

    On April 23rd we will pick up on page 436 of the PDF under section 28.30 - Practical Indication vs False Equivocation.

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