1. Home
    1. Start Here: Study Guide
    2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
    3. Terms of Use
    4. Moderator Team
    5. Site Map
    6. Quizzes
    7. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    8. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  2. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics Wiki
    5. Canonics Wiki
    6. Ethics Wiki
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Physics
    4. Canonics
    5. Ethics
    6. Uncategorized Forum
    7. Study Resources Forum
    8. Ancient Texts Forum
    9. Shortcuts
    10. Featured
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  • Login
  • Register
  • Search
This Thread
  • Everywhere
  • This Thread
  • This Forum
  • Forum
  • Articles
  • Blog Articles
  • Files
  • Gallery
  • Events
  • Pages
  • Wiki
  • Help
  • FAQ
  • More Options

Welcome To EpicureanFriends.com!

"Remember that you are mortal, and you have a limited time to live, and in devoting yourself to discussion of the nature of time and eternity you have seen things that have been, are now, and are to come."

Sign In Now
or
Register a new account
  1. Home
    1. Start Here: Study Guide
    2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
    3. Terms of Use
    4. Moderator Team
    5. Site Map
    6. Quizzes
    7. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    8. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  2. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics Wiki
    5. Canonics Wiki
    6. Ethics Wiki
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Physics
    4. Canonics
    5. Ethics
    6. Uncategorized Forum
    7. Study Resources Forum
    8. Ancient Texts Forum
    9. Shortcuts
    10. Featured
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  1. Home
    1. Start Here: Study Guide
    2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
    3. Terms of Use
    4. Moderator Team
    5. Site Map
    6. Quizzes
    7. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    8. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  2. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics Wiki
    5. Canonics Wiki
    6. Ethics Wiki
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Physics
    4. Canonics
    5. Ethics
    6. Uncategorized Forum
    7. Study Resources Forum
    8. Ancient Texts Forum
    9. Shortcuts
    10. Featured
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  1. EpicureanFriends - Home of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Forum
  3. Epicurean Texts
  4. Epicurus - The "Vatican List" of Sayings
  • Sidebar
  • Sidebar

VS64 - Source in Vat.gr.1950

  • Don
  • January 24, 2024 at 10:16 PM
  • Go to last post
Sunday Weekly Zoom.  12:30 PM EDT - This week's discussion topic: "The Universe Is Infinite In Size And Eternal In Time." To find out how to attend CLICK HERE. To read more on the discussion topic CLICK HERE.
Regularly Checking In On A Small Screen Device? Bookmark THIS page!
  • Don
    ΕΠΙΚΟΥΡΕΙΟΣ (Epicurist)
    Points
    40,116
    Posts
    5,584
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    92.8 %
    • January 24, 2024 at 10:16 PM
    • #1

    I attended tonights Wednesday night VS Study Group and the VS under discussion was 64... with varying translations! It was great. Then I realized we didn't have the source text from the manuscript. So... here we are.

    Saint-Andre gives the Greek as:

    ἀκολουθεῖν δεῖ τὸν παρὰ τῶν ἄλλων ἔπαινον αὐτόματον, ἡμᾶς δὲ γενέσθαι περὶ τὴν ἡμῶν ἰατρείαν.

    Which looks correct to me from the manuscript.

    He gives the translation of: The esteem of others is outside our control; we must attend instead to healing ourselves.

    Bailey gives: Praise from others must come unasked: we must concern ourselves with the healing of our own lives.

    Epicurus Wiki gives: The [praise] by others [ought to follow] automatically while [we] (ought) to concern ourselves with own (own) healing.

    I would paraphrase this as: One must accept the spontaneous praise from others; but we are the ones who heal ourselves. Which means to me that we should accept praise or approval from others if it is automatic. We shouldn't trust the flatterer, but if someone spontaneously tells us we did a nice thing, take the compliment! But we need not rely on that. We know ourselves better than anyone else. If we give ourselves praise, then we know we truly deserve it!

    Want to see the sausage making process? Let's break this down word by word (relying somewhat on the good ol' Wiktionary)

    δεῖ = It is necessary to... One must...

    ἀκολουθεῖν = to follow one in a thing, let oneself be led by [+dative or rarely accusative = someone or something] ... LSJ also has metaphorically, follow, be guided by;

    So, what's the accusative or dative someone or something?

    τὸν παρὰ τῶν ἄλλων ἔπαινον αὐτόματον = (accusative) This has an embedded phrase...

    παρὰ τῶν ἄλλων = παρα is governed by the genitive, accusative, and dative and has different meanings with each! τῶν ἄλλων is genitive, so the genitive implies "from" or "because of" LSJ gives: "WITH GEN. prop. denoting motion from the side of, from beside, from" So, παρὰ τῶν ἄλλων would be, it appears, something "from others"

    ἔπαινον = acc.sing. of "approval, praise" or "an expression of praise; a speech praising someone."

    αὐτόματον = unbidden, spontaneous, "without external cause."

    So, ἀκολουθεῖν δεῖ τὸν παρὰ τῶν ἄλλων ἔπαινον αὐτόματον = It is necessary (It behooves one) to follow the spontaneous praise of others; ...

    ἡμᾶς δὲ γενέσθαι περὶ τὴν ἡμῶν ἰατρείαν. = but we produce/bring into being the ἰατρείαν for ourselves.

    ἰατρείαν = medical treatment; curing, correcting (brings in that whole medical analogy that Epicurus uses in other locations!)

  • Eikadistes
    Garden Bard
    Points
    14,695
    Posts
    863
    Quizzes
    3
    Quiz rate
    94.7 %
    Bookmarks
    10
    • January 24, 2024 at 10:24 PM
    • #2

    This is great! I appreciate your going to the source of the VS. Two other translations for the sake of comparison:

    - Anderson: "We should welcome praise from others if it comes unsought, but we should also be engaged in improving ourselves."

    - Inwood & Gerson: "Praise from other men must come of its own accord; and we must be concerned with healing ourselves."

  • Don
    ΕΠΙΚΟΥΡΕΙΟΣ (Epicurist)
    Points
    40,116
    Posts
    5,584
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    92.8 %
    • January 24, 2024 at 10:39 PM
    • #3
    Quote from Nate

    - Anderson: "We should welcome praise from others if it comes unsought, but we should also be engaged in improving ourselves."

    Thanks for sharing those!! I like Anderson a lot (for the most part). I'd switch "accept" for "welcome." And I do like "improving ourselves" better than "healing."

  • Pacatus
    03 - Full Member
    Points
    6,188
    Posts
    776
    Quizzes
    5
    Quiz rate
    92.3 %
    • January 26, 2024 at 5:02 PM
    • #4
    Quote from Don

    The esteem of others is outside our control; we must attend instead to healing ourselves.

    I really like this rendering. "Improving" is good -- and perhaps better in breadth -- but, for that very reason seems to me (personally!) more abstract. 8)

    heal | Search Online Etymology Dictionary
    The online etymology dictionary (etymonline) is the internet's go-to source for quick and reliable accounts of the origin and history of English words,…
    www.etymonline.com

    "We must try to make the end of the journey better than the beginning, as long as we are journeying; but when we come to the end, we must be happy and content." (Vatican Saying 48)

  • Cassius July 5, 2025 at 11:28 AM

    Changed the title of the thread from “VS64 source in Vat.gr.1950” to “VS64 - Source in Vat.gr.1950”.
  • Cassius July 5, 2025 at 11:28 AM

    Moved the thread from forum VS 64 - Praise from others must come unasked: we must concern ourselve... to forum Epicurus - The "Vatican List" of Sayings.

Unread Threads

    1. Title
    2. Replies
    3. Last Reply
    1. Mocking Epithets 1

      • Like 2
      • Bryan
      • July 4, 2025 at 3:01 PM
      • Comparing Epicurus With Other Philosophers - General Discussion
      • Bryan
      • July 4, 2025 at 6:43 PM
    2. Replies
      1
      Views
      100
      1
    3. Don

      July 4, 2025 at 6:43 PM
    1. Best Lucretius translation? 12

      • Like 1
      • Rolf
      • June 19, 2025 at 8:40 AM
      • General Discussion of "On The Nature of Things"
      • Rolf
      • July 1, 2025 at 1:59 PM
    2. Replies
      12
      Views
      678
      12
    3. Eikadistes

      July 1, 2025 at 1:59 PM
    1. Philodemus' "On Anger" - General - Texts and Resources 19

      • Like 1
      • Cassius
      • April 1, 2022 at 5:36 PM
      • Philodemus On Anger
      • Cassius
      • June 30, 2025 at 8:54 AM
    2. Replies
      19
      Views
      6.2k
      19
    3. Don

      June 30, 2025 at 8:54 AM
    1. The Religion of Nature - as supported by Lucretius' De Rerum Natura 4

      • Thanks 1
      • Kalosyni
      • June 12, 2025 at 12:03 PM
      • General Discussion of "On The Nature of Things"
      • Kalosyni
      • June 23, 2025 at 12:36 AM
    2. Replies
      4
      Views
      713
      4
    3. Godfrey

      June 23, 2025 at 12:36 AM
    1. New Blog Post From Elli - " Fanaticism and the Danger of Dogmatism in Political and Religious Thought: An Epicurean Reading"

      • Like 3
      • Cassius
      • June 20, 2025 at 4:31 PM
      • Epicurus vs Abraham (Judaism, Christianity, Islam)
      • Cassius
      • June 20, 2025 at 4:31 PM
    2. Replies
      0
      Views
      1.7k

Latest Posts

  • Conveying Epicurean Philosophy: Study and Practical Applications

    Adrastus July 5, 2025 at 12:53 AM
  • Mocking Epithets

    Don July 4, 2025 at 6:43 PM
  • Sorites Argument Referenced in Cicero's Academic Questions

    Cassius July 4, 2025 at 6:17 PM
  • Cicero's Summary of the Four Main Arguments Against the Possibility of Knowledge

    Cassius July 4, 2025 at 5:58 PM
  • Episode 289 - TD19 - "Is The Wise Man Subject To Anger, Envy, or Pity?" To Be Recorded

    Cassius July 4, 2025 at 3:16 PM
  • What place does "simple" have in Epicureanism?

    Kalosyni July 4, 2025 at 2:08 PM
  • Episode 288 - TD18 - Tusculan Disputations Part 3 - "Will The Wise Man Feel Grief Or Other Strong Emotions?"

    Don July 4, 2025 at 8:27 AM
  • Epicurus' Prolepsis vs Heraclitus' Flux

    Bryan July 3, 2025 at 9:40 PM
  • Prolepsis of the gods

    Cassius July 3, 2025 at 7:47 PM
  • Eudoxus of Cnidus - Advocate of Pleasure Prior To Epicurus

    TauPhi July 3, 2025 at 11:09 AM

Similar Threads

  • VS63 - "Frugality Too Has A Limit..."

    • Cassius
    • January 28, 2023 at 9:36 AM
    • Epicurus - The "Vatican List" of Sayings

Tags

  • VS64

EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy

  1. Home
    1. About Us
    2. Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Wiki
    1. Getting Started
  3. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. Site Map
  4. Forum
    1. Latest Threads
    2. Featured Threads
    3. Unread Posts
  5. Texts
    1. Core Texts
    2. Biography of Epicurus
    3. Lucretius
  6. Articles
    1. Latest Articles
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured Images
  8. Calendar
    1. This Month At EpicureanFriends
Powered by WoltLab Suite™ 6.0.22
Style: Inspire by cls-design
Stylename
Inspire
Manufacturer
cls-design
Licence
Commercial styles
Help
Supportforum
Visit cls-design