1. New
    1. Member Announcements
  2. Home
    1. Get Started - Activities
    2. Posting Policies
    3. Community Standards
    4. Terms of Use
    5. Moderator Team
    6. Site Map
    7. Quizzes
    8. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
      2. Blog Posts at EpicureanFriends
  3. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  4. Forum
    1. New Activity
    2. New Threads
    3. Welcome
    4. General Discussion
    5. Featured
    6. Activism
    7. Shortcuts
    8. Dashboard
    9. Full Forum List
    10. Level 3+
    11. Most Discussed
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    5. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    6. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    7. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  • Login
  • Register
  • Search
This Thread
  • Everywhere
  • This Thread
  • This Forum
  • Forum
  • Articles
  • Blog Articles
  • Files
  • Gallery
  • Events
  • Pages
  • Wiki
  • Help
  • FAQ
  • More Options

Welcome To EpicureanFriends.com!

"Remember that you are mortal, and you have a limited time to live, and in devoting yourself to discussion of the nature of time and eternity you have seen things that have been, are now, and are to come."

Sign In Now
or
Register a new account
  1. New
    1. Member Announcements
  2. Home
    1. Get Started - Activities
    2. Posting Policies
    3. Community Standards
    4. Terms of Use
    5. Moderator Team
    6. Site Map
    7. Quizzes
    8. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
      2. Blog Posts at EpicureanFriends
  3. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  4. Forum
    1. New Activity
    2. New Threads
    3. Welcome
    4. General Discussion
    5. Featured
    6. Activism
    7. Shortcuts
    8. Dashboard
    9. Full Forum List
    10. Level 3+
    11. Most Discussed
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    5. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    6. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    7. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  1. New
    1. Member Announcements
  2. Home
    1. Get Started - Activities
    2. Posting Policies
    3. Community Standards
    4. Terms of Use
    5. Moderator Team
    6. Site Map
    7. Quizzes
    8. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
      2. Blog Posts at EpicureanFriends
  3. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  4. Forum
    1. New Activity
    2. New Threads
    3. Welcome
    4. General Discussion
    5. Featured
    6. Activism
    7. Shortcuts
    8. Dashboard
    9. Full Forum List
    10. Level 3+
    11. Most Discussed
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    5. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    6. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    7. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  1. EpicureanFriends - Home of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Forum
  3. Epicurean Art And Symbolism
  4. Iconography of Epicurus - Past and Present
  • Sidebar
  • Sidebar

The Facial Expression of Epicurus

  • Kalosyni
  • December 14, 2023 at 6:38 PM
  • Go to last post
Regularly Checking In On A Small Screen Device? Bookmark THIS page!
  • Kalosyni
    Student of the Kepos
    Points
    16,696
    Posts
    2,020
    Quizzes
    2
    Quiz rate
    90.9 %
    • December 14, 2023 at 6:38 PM
    • #1

    I often wish that the imagery of Epicurus had more "warmth", however smiling in portraiture is a late modern phenomenon which came about following advances in photographic technology.

    Back in ancient times, for the likeness to be captured correctly I would imagine that people would sit and pose for the sculptor.

    In early photography the subject had to hold still for a certain length of time.

    Mark Twain had this to say: "A photograph is a very important document, and there is nothing more damning for posterity than a silly smile captured forever."

    Likely people in ancient Greece felt the same (about sculptures), and this article sheds further light:

    Why Is No One Smiling in Classic Portraits and Photographs? | Blog | Domestika
    Learn why smiling was so uncommon in paintings and early photographs "Smile!" We listen to this phrase practically every time we pose for a photograph.…
    www.domestika.org
  • Bryan
    Θησαυροθήρας
    Points
    4,689
    Posts
    573
    Quizzes
    4
    Quiz rate
    97.6 %
    • December 14, 2023 at 7:17 PM
    • #2

    I agree. Let me throw these into the mix.

    Images

    • epicurus-with-a-smile-with-plants-all-around-him-upscaled (6).png
      • 3.82 MB
      • 1,920 × 1,097
      • 5
    • epicurus-with-a-white-beard-and-a-small-smile-wi-upscaled (1).png
      • 3.3 MB
      • 1,920 × 1,097
      • 7
    • in-the-art-style-of-monet-epicurus-with-a-smile-upscaled (10).png
      • 3.43 MB
      • 1,920 × 1,097
      • 7
    • epicurus-with-a-white-beard-and-a-small-smile-i-upscaled (38).png
      • 3.47 MB
      • 1,920 × 1,097
      • 7
    • in-the-art-style-of-monet-epicurus-with-a-smile-upscaled (9).png
      • 3.55 MB
      • 1,920 × 1,097
      • 10
    • younger-epicurus-with-a-small-smile-with-a-black-upscaled (1).png
      • 3.44 MB
      • 1,920 × 1,097
      • 10
    • epicurus-in-robes-with-a-smile-green-robes-whit-upscaled (1).png
      • 3.68 MB
      • 1,920 × 1,097
      • 6
    • epicurus-with-a-white-beard-and-a-small-smile-i-upscaled (2).png
      • 3.25 MB
      • 1,920 × 1,097
      • 6
    • epicurus-with-a-white-beard-and-a-small-smile-i-upscaled (7).png
      • 3.33 MB
      • 1,920 × 1,097
      • 8
    • epicurus-with-a-white-beard-and-a-small-smile-i-upscaled (8).png
      • 3.53 MB
      • 1,920 × 1,097
      • 9
  • Eikadistes
    Garden Bard
    Points
    14,380
    Posts
    836
    Quizzes
    3
    Quiz rate
    94.7 %
    Bookmarks
    10
    • December 14, 2023 at 7:25 PM
    • #3
    Quote from Kalosyni

    I often wish that the imagery of Epicurus had more "warmth"

    We felt the same way. ;)

  • Kalosyni
    Student of the Kepos
    Points
    16,696
    Posts
    2,020
    Quizzes
    2
    Quiz rate
    90.9 %
    • December 14, 2023 at 9:03 PM
    • #4

    What expression do you think looks best on Epicurus (as an icon) for representing his philosophy? 8

    The result is only visible to the participants.

    Okay, I have been pondering this (which I didn't fully explain in the first post above) ...bear with me here...I think that there is a time and place for a "smiling Epicurus"...

    ...but I am now thinking that perhaps that place is in one's imagination. Likely if Epicurus was teaching about the nature of things (atoms and void, etc.) then he had a serious expression. Smiling evolved from primates as a sign of submission, and even now a lecturer or presentor who smiles too much appears less confident.

    So I am thinking now that the Epicurus who represents the teachings should be somewhat serious looking.

  • Eikadistes
    Garden Bard
    Points
    14,380
    Posts
    836
    Quizzes
    3
    Quiz rate
    94.7 %
    Bookmarks
    10
    • December 14, 2023 at 10:26 PM
    • #5

    I have to defer to the recommendation of Diogenes of Oinoanda who wrote that "the statues of the gods should be made genial and smiling, so that we may smile back at them, rather than be afraid of them."

  • Kalosyni
    Student of the Kepos
    Points
    16,696
    Posts
    2,020
    Quizzes
    2
    Quiz rate
    90.9 %
    • December 15, 2023 at 7:26 AM
    • #6

    Sometime in the future I would hope that our logo could be upgraded...and I would propose a knowing face (neither smiling nor frowning).

    It looks likely that the source for the current drawing might have been this:

    But you can see it is a slightly different facial expression on our logo.

  • Kalosyni December 15, 2023 at 7:34 AM

    Changed the title of the thread from “The Stern Face of Epicurus” to “The Facial Expression of Epicurus”.
  • Kalosyni
    Student of the Kepos
    Points
    16,696
    Posts
    2,020
    Quizzes
    2
    Quiz rate
    90.9 %
    • December 15, 2023 at 8:01 AM
    • #7

    Of course everyone has individual preferences. I notice too that whether the face is looking directly forward or 3/4 angle also changes the feeling...as does eyes looking up or straight forward. And whether there is a slight smile - that is up to individual perception perhaps (how slight a smile could be to qualify as as being slight).

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    101,674
    Posts
    13,917
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • December 15, 2023 at 9:23 AM
    • #8

    I just realized that I don't think my preferred description is in the poll options. I would opt for "serious" and would see that as having a different connotation from "stern" or "disapproving." I generally see Epicurus as happy and upbeat, but if one single image had to be preserved for all time, it would probably be a look of seriousness at confronting what a mess the standard philosophers and religions had made of the world, and an earnest desire to change it.

  • Kalosyni
    Student of the Kepos
    Points
    16,696
    Posts
    2,020
    Quizzes
    2
    Quiz rate
    90.9 %
    • December 15, 2023 at 10:35 AM
    • #9

    I would say that "serious" falls into "a knowing face (neither smiling nor frowning)".


  • Pacatus
    03 - Member
    Points
    6,198
    Posts
    775
    Quizzes
    5
    Quiz rate
    92.3 %
    • December 15, 2023 at 3:22 PM
    • #10

    I doubt that any one image can capture anything close to "the whole of the man." I use mostly the three below (in no particular order), depending on my mood or intuition of the moment:

    "We must try to make the end of the journey better than the beginning, as long as we are journeying; but when we come to the end, we must be happy and content." (Vatican Saying 48)

  • Pacatus
    03 - Member
    Points
    6,198
    Posts
    775
    Quizzes
    5
    Quiz rate
    92.3 %
    • December 15, 2023 at 4:07 PM
    • #11

    Interesting: Heraclitus was known as the weeping philosopher (grieving the state of the world), while Democritus was known as the laughing philosopher (with some argument over whether that was a mocking laughter at the state of the world, or – my preferred interpretation – trying to inject some cheer into the world, since cheerfulness was a main virtue for Democritus).

    Perhaps, for Epicurus, a visage that captures at once his sadness at “what a mess the standard philosophers and religions had made of the world;” his sincere (serious) determination to right those wrongs as best he can, out of compassion for humanity; and a bit of a good-humored smile and twinkle in the eyes that reflect that compassion and kindness. At least, that’s the way I like to see it. And in that vein, I think that Genevra Catalano’s (Nate’s wife’s) rendering of the elder Epicurus (on the right of the three renderings I posted above) captures all of that the best. (The one on the left is by Allesandro Tomassi, and I posted it before with attribution; it reminds me of a person wise beyond his years that I briefly knew.)

    Note: Catalano’s "Epicurus Dines" (also available on Etsy) shows a more pensive Epicurus.

    +++++++++++++++++++++

    Democritus:

    “Best is for a person to live a cheerful life as little distressed as possible.”

    “A life without festivity is a long road without an inn.”

    “cheerfulness”: Democritus’ Greek word was euthumia, which could also mean tranquility and contentment (cheerfulness is the predominant translation). Cheerfulness becomes a practice and a discipline that is seldom effortless.

    "We must try to make the end of the journey better than the beginning, as long as we are journeying; but when we come to the end, we must be happy and content." (Vatican Saying 48)

  • Eikadistes
    Garden Bard
    Points
    14,380
    Posts
    836
    Quizzes
    3
    Quiz rate
    94.7 %
    Bookmarks
    10
    • December 15, 2023 at 4:13 PM
    • #12

    Epicure in Charcoal by splatteredvenue (2007)


    Epicure Part 2 by splatteredvenue (2007)


    Epicurus (wrongly titled Plato) by Rubens in 1638 (BM Asset 876575001)


    Epicurus & Seneca by Guia do Estudante


    Epicurus by Evi Sarantea (2012)


    Epicurus by fogbird


    Epicurus by Gijs Kast Huijgen


    Epicurus By Granger


    Epicurus by Lucy Calder


    Epicurus by Martin Rowson

  • Eikadistes
    Garden Bard
    Points
    14,380
    Posts
    836
    Quizzes
    3
    Quiz rate
    94.7 %
    Bookmarks
    10
    • December 15, 2023 at 4:16 PM
    • #13

    Epicurus by YouriAlden (2013)


    Epicurus Coloring Book (?)


    Epicurus from Ward and Lock's Illustrated History of the World (1882)


    Epicurus Greek Philosopher Date by Mary Evans (2018)


    Epicurus Laughing by SimoneDebuvua


    Epicurus New Yorker Caricature


    Epicurus NFT by Greek Philosophers Club


    Epicurus Vector Sketch Portrait by Ivona17


    Epicurus, Pemikir Kebahagiaan yang Tak Bisa Dibiarkan (indonesian)


    Thinker Epicurus in Tamil

  • Pacatus
    03 - Member
    Points
    6,198
    Posts
    775
    Quizzes
    5
    Quiz rate
    92.3 %
    • December 15, 2023 at 4:38 PM
    • #14

    Eikadistes

    Just for curiosity, is the red fruit in "Epicurus Dines" pomegranate (perhaps) or tomatoes or ... ?

    Tomatoes would be anachronistic, but -- as a poet of sorts -- I completely affirm anachronisms as a valid and vital part of artistic license! :) What is important is what the images (and, in poetry, also rhythms and word-sounds) evoke.

    "We must try to make the end of the journey better than the beginning, as long as we are journeying; but when we come to the end, we must be happy and content." (Vatican Saying 48)

  • Eikadistes
    Garden Bard
    Points
    14,380
    Posts
    836
    Quizzes
    3
    Quiz rate
    94.7 %
    Bookmarks
    10
    • December 15, 2023 at 6:02 PM
    • #15
    Quote from Pacatus

    Eikadistes

    Just for curiosity, is the red fruit in "Epicurus Dines" pomegranate (perhaps) or tomatoes or ... ?

    Tomatoes would be anachronistic, but -- as a poet of sorts -- I completely affirm anachronisms as a valid and vital part of artistic license! :) What is important is what the images (and, in poetry, also rhythms and word-sounds) evoke.

    I recall Gen mentioning to me that she leaves it up to the observer. It is definitely not tomatoes, and I'm glad you brought that up, because I only learned as an adult that tomatoes were not introduced to Europe until 1521.

  • Kalosyni
    Student of the Kepos
    Points
    16,696
    Posts
    2,020
    Quizzes
    2
    Quiz rate
    90.9 %
    • December 15, 2023 at 6:13 PM
    • #16

    As I look at all the images that Eikadistes shared, it does seem that the low brow bone and furrowed forehead is a distinctive feature of Epicurus' face.

  • Don
    ΕΠΙΚΟΥΡΕΙΟΣ (Epicurist)
    Points
    39,333
    Posts
    5,486
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    92.8 %
    • December 15, 2023 at 6:53 PM
    • #17

    It might be useful to remember all the bearded Epicurus images are based on probably 2, maybe 3, statues and maybe a ring or two(?) at most from the ancient world.

    I'm disregarding the School of Athens one traditionally with the wreath and the bald one seen on various medieval or Renaissance images.

    The modern ones are all jazz riffs on that ancient image.

  • Pacatus
    03 - Member
    Points
    6,198
    Posts
    775
    Quizzes
    5
    Quiz rate
    92.3 %
    • December 15, 2023 at 7:26 PM
    • #18
    Quote from Don

    The modern ones are all jazz riffs on that ancient image.

    And those few ancient images may well have been "riffs" themselves?

    "We must try to make the end of the journey better than the beginning, as long as we are journeying; but when we come to the end, we must be happy and content." (Vatican Saying 48)

  • Don
    ΕΠΙΚΟΥΡΕΙΟΣ (Epicurist)
    Points
    39,333
    Posts
    5,486
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    92.8 %
    • December 15, 2023 at 7:38 PM
    • #19
    Quote from Pacatus

    And those few ancient images may well have been "riffs" themselves?

    Good point. Roman copies of Greek originals.

  • Martin
    04 - Moderator
    Points
    4,044
    Posts
    570
    Quizzes
    7
    Quiz rate
    85.9 %
    • December 15, 2023 at 10:43 PM
    • #20

    My impression from the visit at the Archaeological Institute in Goettingen is that the Roman copies were usually accurate. In case of the restored statue of Epicurus from the remains of two copies, even the folds of the clothing match. There are multiple copies of the same lost originals.

Unread Threads

    1. Title
    2. Replies
    3. Last Reply
    1. Analysing movies through an Epicurean lens 3

      • Like 1
      • Rolf
      • May 12, 2025 at 4:54 PM
      • General Discussion
      • Rolf
      • May 12, 2025 at 10:10 PM
    2. Replies
      3
      Views
      87
      3
    3. Godfrey

      May 12, 2025 at 10:10 PM
    1. ⟐ as the symbol of the philosophy of Epicurus 47

      • Like 1
      • michelepinto
      • March 18, 2021 at 11:59 AM
      • General Discussion
      • michelepinto
      • May 12, 2025 at 8:57 PM
    2. Replies
      47
      Views
      7.7k
      47
    3. Eikadistes

      May 12, 2025 at 8:57 PM
    1. Is All Desire Painful? How Would Epicurus Answer? 24

      • Like 1
      • Cassius
      • May 7, 2025 at 10:02 PM
      • General Discussion
      • Cassius
      • May 10, 2025 at 3:42 PM
    2. Replies
      24
      Views
      936
      24
    3. sanantoniogarden

      May 10, 2025 at 3:42 PM
    1. Pompeii Then and Now 7

      • Like 2
      • kochiekoch
      • January 22, 2025 at 1:19 PM
      • General Discussion
      • kochiekoch
      • May 8, 2025 at 3:50 PM
    2. Replies
      7
      Views
      1.1k
      7
    3. kochiekoch

      May 8, 2025 at 3:50 PM
    1. Names of Bits of Reality 4

      • Thanks 2
      • Eikadistes
      • May 8, 2025 at 12:12 PM
      • General Discussion
      • Eikadistes
      • May 8, 2025 at 1:31 PM
    2. Replies
      4
      Views
      261
      4
    3. Eikadistes

      May 8, 2025 at 1:31 PM

Latest Posts

  • Analysing movies through an Epicurean lens

    Godfrey May 12, 2025 at 10:10 PM
  • ⟐ as the symbol of the philosophy of Epicurus

    Eikadistes May 12, 2025 at 8:57 PM
  • Introductory Level Study Group via Zoom - Interest Level and Planning

    Cassius May 12, 2025 at 8:56 PM
  • May 20, 2025 Twentieth Gathering Via Zoom Agenda

    Kalosyni May 12, 2025 at 5:32 PM
  • Episode 280 - Wrapping Up Cicero's Arguments On Death

    Cassius May 11, 2025 at 10:58 AM
  • Ancient Greek Gods and Goddesses Positive Attributes

    Cassius May 11, 2025 at 7:10 AM
  • Is All Desire Painful? How Would Epicurus Answer?

    sanantoniogarden May 10, 2025 at 3:42 PM
  • Happy Birthday General Thread

    Cassius May 10, 2025 at 4:08 AM
  • Welcome LukeTN!

    Cassius May 9, 2025 at 9:34 PM
  • Pompeii Then and Now

    kochiekoch May 8, 2025 at 3:50 PM

Similar Threads

  • Epicurean Symbolism in Herculaneum Art - Something To Track Down

    • Cassius
    • August 26, 2021 at 9:57 PM
    • General Discussion - Texts From Philodemus

EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy

  1. Home
    1. About Us
    2. Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Wiki
    1. Getting Started
  3. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. Site Map
  4. Forum
    1. Latest Threads
    2. Featured Threads
    3. Unread Posts
  5. Texts
    1. Core Texts
    2. Biography of Epicurus
    3. Lucretius
  6. Articles
    1. Latest Articles
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured Images
  8. Calendar
    1. This Month At EpicureanFriends
Powered by WoltLab Suite™ 6.0.22
Style: Inspire by cls-design
Stylename
Inspire
Manufacturer
cls-design
Licence
Commercial styles
Help
Supportforum
Visit cls-design