1. New
    1. Member Announcements
  2. Home
    1. Get Started - Activities
    2. Posting Policies
    3. Community Standards
    4. Terms of Use
    5. Moderator Team
    6. Site Map
    7. Quizzes
    8. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
      2. Blog Posts at EpicureanFriends
  3. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  4. Forum
    1. New Activity
    2. New Threads
    3. Welcome
    4. General Discussion
    5. Featured
    6. Activism
    7. Shortcuts
    8. Dashboard
    9. Full Forum List
    10. Level 3+
    11. Most Discussed
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    5. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    6. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    7. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  • Login
  • Register
  • Search
This Thread
  • Everywhere
  • This Thread
  • This Forum
  • Forum
  • Articles
  • Blog Articles
  • Files
  • Gallery
  • Events
  • Pages
  • Wiki
  • Help
  • FAQ
  • More Options

Welcome To EpicureanFriends.com!

"Remember that you are mortal, and you have a limited time to live, and in devoting yourself to discussion of the nature of time and eternity you have seen things that have been, are now, and are to come."

Sign In Now
or
Register a new account
  1. New
    1. Member Announcements
  2. Home
    1. Get Started - Activities
    2. Posting Policies
    3. Community Standards
    4. Terms of Use
    5. Moderator Team
    6. Site Map
    7. Quizzes
    8. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
      2. Blog Posts at EpicureanFriends
  3. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  4. Forum
    1. New Activity
    2. New Threads
    3. Welcome
    4. General Discussion
    5. Featured
    6. Activism
    7. Shortcuts
    8. Dashboard
    9. Full Forum List
    10. Level 3+
    11. Most Discussed
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    5. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    6. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    7. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  1. New
    1. Member Announcements
  2. Home
    1. Get Started - Activities
    2. Posting Policies
    3. Community Standards
    4. Terms of Use
    5. Moderator Team
    6. Site Map
    7. Quizzes
    8. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
      2. Blog Posts at EpicureanFriends
  3. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  4. Forum
    1. New Activity
    2. New Threads
    3. Welcome
    4. General Discussion
    5. Featured
    6. Activism
    7. Shortcuts
    8. Dashboard
    9. Full Forum List
    10. Level 3+
    11. Most Discussed
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    5. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    6. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    7. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  1. EpicureanFriends - Home of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Forum
  3. Modern Books, Articles, and Videos
  4. Other Books On Epicurean Philosophy
  5. St Paul And Epicurus - Norman DeWitt
  • Sidebar
  • Sidebar

Fact-checking DeWitt's "St. Paul and Epicurus"

  • Titus
  • October 7, 2023 at 7:40 PM
  • Go to last post
Regularly Checking In On A Small Screen Device? Bookmark THIS page!
  • Titus
    03 - Member
    Points
    1,063
    Posts
    133
    Quizzes
    2
    Quiz rate
    88.9 %
    • October 7, 2023 at 7:40 PM
    • #1

    Although I do not expect any new revelations from examining DeWitt's work on the epistles of St. Paul, I still consider his study a quite remarkable approach to decipher and understand St. Paul under the light of Epicureanism. Others claim that he creates in a quite persuasive way scientific fiction.

    Unfortunately, a quick research via search engines doesn't show any kind of reception by theologians or other researchers. I'm uncomfortable with the fact that on the one hand, there are some astonishing clues by DeWitt, which would bring light to tricky passages in the writings of Paul. On the other hand, having no critiques or recensions by experts at all, makes fact-checking a tricky task. Personally, I don't have any knowledge of Ancient Greek, too.

    My strategy would be this way:

    1. Starting a systematic literature research. Perhaps there may be some hidden articles on the issue which are invisible to a superficial investigation.

    2. Trying to consult theology professors/professionals who are specialized on the New Testament.

    Do you have any ideas/proposals on how to handle such an investigation? Has anyone of you already tried to do a check?

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    101,858
    Posts
    13,945
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • October 7, 2023 at 8:01 PM
    • #2

    Titus I would propose that you just set up a thread for each suggestion by DeWitt you find interesting and people can then pursue that specific reference over time. I agree this is worth pursuing whether anyone has in the past followed DeWitts lead or not. Let me look and see if we have one and if we don't I will set up a sub forum specifically for this book and you can create a thread on each verse or topic.

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    101,858
    Posts
    13,945
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • October 7, 2023 at 8:08 PM
    • #3

    OK Titus here is a forum specifically dedicated to St Paul and Epicurus. Unless you have a better idea I would suggest that you or others interested in this just open a thread for each specific verse or issue that is contained in the book. I think we have at least a couple of posts on this book somewhere already so i will try to round them up and put them there too.

    "Here" now means the forum where you are reading this:

    Norman DeWitt's "St Paul And Epicurus"

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    101,858
    Posts
    13,945
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • October 7, 2023 at 10:24 PM
    • #4

    I am particularly looking forward to the analysis of whether Epicurus was in their mind as the, or one of the, antichrist(s)!

    ;)

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    101,858
    Posts
    13,945
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • October 7, 2023 at 10:28 PM
    • #5

    Plus, other than the statement of Cicero about Epicurean philosophy taking Italy by storm in 50BC, I am not aware of much discussion at all about how popular Epicurean philosophy was in the Hellenized world by 50 AD. How much of the population of Greece ever was a blend of something that could be considered Epicurean? When Paul was complaining in general about the non-Christians, I have no idea how many in fact might have been Epicureans for these allusions DeWitt is drawing to be likely. Were the Epicureans always a small sect, or is it possible that in the relevant areas that we are talking about Epicurean views had in fact penetrated strongly. I am not sure I have read anything which even tried to project that. Is it possible that the Epicureans attained a level of popularity that no one today really suspects or admits? Is it possible that they far outnumbered the Stoics? I have no clue.

    We have a tendency to think that Epicurean popularity somehow nosedived after Lucretius, but is it possible that that is not in fact the case and that it continued to be extremely popular, or perhaps even a majority, until the Christians took over?

  • Online
    Don
    ΕΠΙΚΟΥΡΕΙΟΣ (Epicurist)
    Points
    39,494
    Posts
    5,507
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    92.8 %
    • October 7, 2023 at 10:34 PM
    • #6

    The only *explicit* mention of Epicureans in the Bible is in Acts:

    Acts 17:18

    Also some Epicurean and Stoic philosophers debated with him. Some said, “What does this pretentious babbler want to say?” Others said, “He seems to be a proclaimer of foreign divinities.” (This was because he was telling the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.)

    Bible Gateway passage: Acts 17 - New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition
    The Uproar in Thessalonica - After Paul and Silas had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a Jewish synagogue.…
    www.biblegateway.com

    But they were obviously around!

    Paul was writing probably 48-60 CE.

    Plus, remember the composition of Acts is usually dated to around 80–90 CE, although some scholars suggest 110–120 CE. So, there were most likely a significant number of Epicureans at that time for the reading audience to know who these "Epicureans" were.

  • Online
    Don
    ΕΠΙΚΟΥΡΕΙΟΣ (Epicurist)
    Points
    39,494
    Posts
    5,507
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    92.8 %
    • October 7, 2023 at 11:29 PM
    • #7

    Haven't read this yet but could prove interesting or applicable:

    Paul and the Athens Epicureans: Between Polytheisms, Atheisms and Monotheisms, Diogenes 205, 2004, p. 47-60.
    Paul the apostle seems to have considered philosophy as a rival more than an enemy: when he approached the Athens Aeropagus to explain the Christians' new…
    www.academia.edu

Unread Threads

    1. Title
    2. Replies
    3. Last Reply
    1. ⟐ as the symbol of the philosophy of Epicurus 73

      • Like 2
      • michelepinto
      • March 18, 2021 at 11:59 AM
      • General Discussion
      • michelepinto
      • May 20, 2025 at 6:13 PM
    2. Replies
      73
      Views
      8.9k
      73
    3. Don

      May 20, 2025 at 6:13 PM
    1. "All Models Are Wrong, But Some Are Useful" 5

      • Like 3
      • Cassius
      • January 21, 2024 at 11:21 AM
      • General Discussion
      • Cassius
      • May 20, 2025 at 5:35 PM
    2. Replies
      5
      Views
      1.3k
      5
    3. Novem

      May 20, 2025 at 5:35 PM
    1. Analysing movies through an Epicurean lens 16

      • Like 1
      • Rolf
      • May 12, 2025 at 4:54 PM
      • General Discussion
      • Rolf
      • May 19, 2025 at 12:45 AM
    2. Replies
      16
      Views
      889
      16
    3. Matteng

      May 19, 2025 at 12:45 AM
    1. Is All Desire Painful? How Would Epicurus Answer? 24

      • Like 1
      • Cassius
      • May 7, 2025 at 10:02 PM
      • General Discussion
      • Cassius
      • May 10, 2025 at 3:42 PM
    2. Replies
      24
      Views
      1.3k
      24
    3. sanantoniogarden

      May 10, 2025 at 3:42 PM
    1. Pompeii Then and Now 7

      • Like 2
      • kochiekoch
      • January 22, 2025 at 1:19 PM
      • General Discussion
      • kochiekoch
      • May 8, 2025 at 3:50 PM
    2. Replies
      7
      Views
      1.2k
      7
    3. kochiekoch

      May 8, 2025 at 3:50 PM

Latest Posts

  • ⟐ as the symbol of the philosophy of Epicurus

    Don May 20, 2025 at 6:13 PM
  • "All Models Are Wrong, But Some Are Useful"

    Novem May 20, 2025 at 5:35 PM
  • Article: Scientists in a race to discover why our Universe exists

    kochiekoch May 20, 2025 at 1:26 PM
  • Happy Twentieth of May 2025!

    Cassius May 20, 2025 at 9:05 AM
  • Episode 281 - Is Pain The Greatest Evil - Or Even An Evil At All? - Part One - Not Yet Recorded

    Eikadistes May 19, 2025 at 6:17 PM
  • New "TWENTIERS" Website

    Cassius May 19, 2025 at 4:30 PM
  • Sabine Hossenfelder - Why the Multiverse Is Religion

    Eikadistes May 19, 2025 at 3:39 PM
  • What Makes Someone "An Epicurean?"

    Eikadistes May 19, 2025 at 1:06 PM
  • Analysing movies through an Epicurean lens

    Matteng May 19, 2025 at 12:45 AM
  • Personal mottos?

    Kalosyni May 18, 2025 at 9:22 AM

EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy

  1. Home
    1. About Us
    2. Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Wiki
    1. Getting Started
  3. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. Site Map
  4. Forum
    1. Latest Threads
    2. Featured Threads
    3. Unread Posts
  5. Texts
    1. Core Texts
    2. Biography of Epicurus
    3. Lucretius
  6. Articles
    1. Latest Articles
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured Images
  8. Calendar
    1. This Month At EpicureanFriends
Powered by WoltLab Suite™ 6.0.22
Style: Inspire by cls-design
Stylename
Inspire
Manufacturer
cls-design
Licence
Commercial styles
Help
Supportforum
Visit cls-design