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VS25 - Vat.gr.1950 + additional sources

  • Don
  • July 15, 2023 at 11:03 PM
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  • Don
    ΕΠΙΚΟΥΡΕΙΟΣ (Epicurist)
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    • July 15, 2023 at 11:03 PM
    • #1

    DigiVatLib

    ἡ πενία μετρουμένη τῷ τῆς φύσεως τέλει μέγας ἐστὶ πλοῦτος· πλοῦτος δὲ μὴ ὁριζόμενος μεγάλη ἐστὶ πενία.

    Poverty is great wealth if measured by the goals of nature, and wealth is abject poverty if not limited by the goals of nature. (Saint-Andre)

    This saying (U477) is also attested in Seneca's Letters (4:10):

    Quote from Seneca

    10. But I must end my letter. Let me share with you the saying which pleased me to-day. It, too, is culled from another man's Garden:[3] "Poverty brought into conformity with the law of nature, is great wealth."' (magnae divitiae sunt lege naturae composita paupertas') Do you know what limits that law of nature ordains for us? Merely to avert hunger, thirst, and cold. In order to banish hunger and thirst, it is not necessary for you to pay court at the doors of the purse-proud, or to submit to the stern frown, or to the kindness that humiliates; nor is it necessary for you to scour the seas, or go campaigning; nature's needs are easily provided and ready to hand.

    Bailey also cites Lucretius 5.1117-1119, as echoing this saying:

    Yet were man to steer

    His life by sounder reasoning, he'd own

    Abounding riches, if with mind content

    He lived by thrift; for never, as I guess,

    Is there a lack of little in the world.

    quod siquis vera vitam ratione gubernet,

    divitiae grandes homini sunt vivere parce

    aequo animo; neque enim est umquam penuria parvi.

    parce < parcus

    Charlton T. Lewis, Charles Short, A Latin Dictionary, parcus

    πενία

    Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, πενία

    If I remember correctly, Epicurus was not a fan of the Cynics who lived by begging in the streets. So, I don't think πενία should be interpreted as abject poverty or living on the edge of starvation and similar scenarios. Parcus has a connotation of frugality and thriftiness. I can see Epicurus hammering that home, that we don't need great wealth to find pleasure, to be happy. That is a common thread. Πενία and πλούτος are also opposites or antonyms, so that also plays into Epicurus's wordplay that he likes.

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    Kalosyni
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    • August 31, 2023 at 7:55 AM
    • #2

    Thanks Don, turns out that we covered this in last night's Zoom (but I had forgotten you had posted your translation on it) and so hoping kochiekoch, TauPhi, Martin, Cassius take note of this thread. (and Onenski also).

    Quote from Don

    Parcus has a connotation of frugality and thriftiness. I can see Epicurus hammering that home, that we don't need great wealth to find pleasure, to be happy.

    It reads from this that we can think of the goal of nature is to live a pleasant life -- and this would be more like quiet pleasure rather than over-the-top pleasure (which requires wealth).

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    • August 31, 2023 at 7:59 AM
    • #3
    Quote from Don

    So, I don't think πενία should be interpreted as abject poverty or living on the edge of starvation and similar scenarios.

    Your translation of this brings up a reminder regarding translations. Cassius are we going to assemble a recommended translation at some point on VSs and PDs?

  • Cassius July 5, 2025 at 11:16 AM

    Changed the title of the thread from “VS25 in Vat.gr.1950 + additional sources” to “VS25 - Vat.gr.1950 + additional sources”.
  • Cassius July 5, 2025 at 11:16 AM

    Moved the thread from forum VS 25 - Poverty, when measured by the natural purpose of life... to forum Epicurus - The "Vatican List" of Sayings.

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