1. Home
    1. Start Here: Study Guide
    2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
    3. Terms of Use
    4. Moderator Team
    5. Website Overview
    6. Site Map
    7. Quizzes
    8. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    9. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
      2. Kalosyni's Blog
  2. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Files
    5. Search Assistance
    6. Not NeoEpicurean
    7. Foundations
    8. Navigation Outlines
    9. Reading List
    10. Key Pages
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Physics
    4. Canonics
    5. Ethics
    6. Forum Shortcuts
    7. Forum Navigation Map
    8. Featured
    9. Most Discussed
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
    4. Search By Tag
    5. Complete Tag List
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Torquatus On Epicurean Ethics
    3. Diogenes Laertius
    4. Principal Doctrines
    5. Vatican Collection
    6. Lucretius
    7. Herodotus
    8. Pythocles
    9. Menoeceus
    10. Fragments - Usener Collection
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. More
    1. Featured Content
    2. Calendar
      1. Upcoming Events List
      2. Zooms - General Info
      3. Fourth Sunday Meet-&-Greet
      4. Sunday Weekly Zoom
      5. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
      6. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    3. Logbook
    4. EF ToDo List
    5. Link-Database
  • Login
  • Register
  • Search
This Thread
  • Everywhere
  • This Thread
  • This Forum
  • Forum
  • Articles
  • Blog Articles
  • Files
  • Gallery
  • Events
  • Pages
  • Wiki
  • Help
  • FAQ
  • More Options

Welcome To EpicureanFriends.com!

EpicureanFriends is a community of real people dedicated to the study and promotion of Classical Epicurean Philosophy. We offer what no encyclopedia, AI chatbot, textbook, or general philosophy forum can provide — genuine teamwork among people committed to rediscovering and restoring the actual teachings of Epicurus, unadulterated by Stoicism, Skepticism, Supernatural Religion, Humanism, or other incompatible philosophies.

Sign In Now
or
Register a new account
  1. Home
    1. Start Here: Study Guide
    2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
    3. Terms of Use
    4. Moderator Team
    5. Website Overview
    6. Site Map
    7. Quizzes
    8. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    9. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
      2. Kalosyni's Blog
  2. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Files
    5. Search Assistance
    6. Not NeoEpicurean
    7. Foundations
    8. Navigation Outlines
    9. Reading List
    10. Key Pages
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Physics
    4. Canonics
    5. Ethics
    6. Forum Shortcuts
    7. Forum Navigation Map
    8. Featured
    9. Most Discussed
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
    4. Search By Tag
    5. Complete Tag List
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Torquatus On Epicurean Ethics
    3. Diogenes Laertius
    4. Principal Doctrines
    5. Vatican Collection
    6. Lucretius
    7. Herodotus
    8. Pythocles
    9. Menoeceus
    10. Fragments - Usener Collection
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. More
    1. Featured Content
    2. Calendar
      1. Upcoming Events List
      2. Zooms - General Info
      3. Fourth Sunday Meet-&-Greet
      4. Sunday Weekly Zoom
      5. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
      6. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    3. Logbook
    4. EF ToDo List
    5. Link-Database
  1. Home
    1. Start Here: Study Guide
    2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
    3. Terms of Use
    4. Moderator Team
    5. Website Overview
    6. Site Map
    7. Quizzes
    8. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    9. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
      2. Kalosyni's Blog
  2. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Files
    5. Search Assistance
    6. Not NeoEpicurean
    7. Foundations
    8. Navigation Outlines
    9. Reading List
    10. Key Pages
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Physics
    4. Canonics
    5. Ethics
    6. Forum Shortcuts
    7. Forum Navigation Map
    8. Featured
    9. Most Discussed
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
    4. Search By Tag
    5. Complete Tag List
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Torquatus On Epicurean Ethics
    3. Diogenes Laertius
    4. Principal Doctrines
    5. Vatican Collection
    6. Lucretius
    7. Herodotus
    8. Pythocles
    9. Menoeceus
    10. Fragments - Usener Collection
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. More
    1. Featured Content
    2. Calendar
      1. Upcoming Events List
      2. Zooms - General Info
      3. Fourth Sunday Meet-&-Greet
      4. Sunday Weekly Zoom
      5. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
      6. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    3. Logbook
    4. EF ToDo List
    5. Link-Database
  1. EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Forum
  3. Ethics - How To Live
  4. The Term "Pleasure" Means The Same As "Absence of Pain," And Includes All Experience Which Is Not Painful Not Painful
  • Sidebar
  • Sidebar

Discussion of Blog Article: "Living For Pleasure, Or Dying For Relief From Pain?"

  • Cassius
  • June 5, 2026 at 1:38 PM
  • Go to last post

ALL CURRENT AND PROSPECTIVE PARTICIPANTS SHOULD READ THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT OF FORUM EDITORIAL POLICY:  "Against Katastematic Supremacy - Pleasure Is A Unified Good, Not A House Divided Against Itself."

New Graphics: Are You On Team Epicurus? | Comparison Chart: Epicurus vs. Other Philosophies | Chart Of Key Epicurean Quotations | Accelerating Study Of Canonics Through Philodemus' "On Methods Of Inference" | Note to all users: If you have a problem posting in any forum, please message Cassius  

PDF
  • Cassius
    5 - Administrator
    Points
    115,377
    Posts
    15,887
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • June 5, 2026 at 1:38 PM
    • #1

    This thread is for discussion of the blog article "Living For Pleasure, Or Dying For Relief From Pain?"


    Blog Article

    Living For Pleasure, Or Dying For Relief From Pain?

    […]


    Is The "Emphasis" In Epicurean Philosophy On Relief From Pain?

    In a separate article I have made the case that it is a major rhetorical and factual mistake to describe Epicurean philosophy as primarily about relief from pain. Jack Gedney, a writer on Substack, responded with an article referencing me and affirming his contention that pain relief is indeed the primary emphasis of Epicurus. The title of the second article changed the focus slightly from "primary" to "emphasizes," but Gedney…
    Cassius
    June 5, 2026 at 1:35 PM
    • PDF
  • Todd
    3 - Friend
    Points
    1,261
    Posts
    200
    • June 5, 2026 at 2:50 PM
    • #2

    Some minor feedback:

    Quote

    A person whose primary orientation is the avoidance of pain does not choose pain. Full stop.

    This is a straw man argument. Such a person would certainly choose a lesser pain as a means of avoiding a greater one.

    Quote

    Epicurus pursued nature because he recognized that every day lived in unnecessary fear — of death, of the gods, of what the neighbors will think — is a day of a finite life squandered and taken away from the pursuit of pleasure.

    "pursued nature"

    I think that should be "studied nature"

    "fear...of what the neighbors will think"

    While Epicurus would not have advised fearing what our neighbors might think, he definitely did not recommend ignoring their opinions.

    His advice was to live so as to avoid attracting either envy or contempt.

    (My source for that is DeWitt. PD 39 is certainly one of his sources, but translators seem to disagree about the meaning of that one. I have not looked into what other sources he cites.)

    • PDF
  • Cassius
    5 - Administrator
    Points
    115,377
    Posts
    15,887
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • June 5, 2026 at 3:42 PM
    • #3
    Quote from Todd

    This is a straw man argument. Such a person would certainly choose a lesser pain as a means of avoiding a greater one.

    Thanks for your comments. I don't think that is a straw man argument at all. It is exactly this part of what Epicurus says - that we DO sometimes choose pain to maximize pleasure - that is in issue.

    I wouldn't normally think it necessary to point this out (that we sometimes choose pain) but it is being ignored by the "painfree" chorus, and even if mentioned at all only in an exceptional way, never clearly stated to be something we can and should do on a routine basis to maximize pleasure.

    • PDF
  • Don
    ΕΠΙΚΟΥΡΕΙΟΣ (Epicurist)
    Points
    43,601
    Posts
    6,050
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    92.8 %
    • June 5, 2026 at 9:13 PM
    • #4
    Quote from Todd

    "fear...of what the neighbors will think"

    While Epicurus would not have advised fearing what our neighbors might think, he definitely did not recommend ignoring their opinions.

    His advice was to live so as to avoid attracting either envy or contempt.

    And also according to Diogenes Laertius' Lives:

    The wise one will also pay just enough attention to their reputation as to avoid being looked down upon. (X.120, my own translation)

    Hicks: He will pay just so much regard to his reputation as not to be looked down upon.

    Yonge: He will show a regard for a fair reputation to such an extent as to avoid being despised;

    Original text: εὐδοξίας ἐπὶ τοσοῦτον προνοήσεσθαι,

    εὐδοξίας good repute

    τοσοῦτον so far as

    Provide for good repute for as far as...

    ἐφ᾽ ὅσον μὴ καταφρονήσεσθαι:

    καταφρονέω look down upon, think slightly of

    So, the translations are accurate.

    • PDF

Finding Things At EpicureanFriends.com

Here is a list of suggested search strategies:

  • Website Overview page - clickable links arrranged by cards.
  • Forum Main Page - list of forums and subforums arranged by topic. Threads are posted according to relevant topics. The "Uncategorized subforum" contains threads which do not fall into any existing topic (also contains older "unfiled" threads which will soon be moved).
  • Search Tool - icon is located on the top right of every page. Note that the search box asks you what section of the forum you'd like to search. If you don't know, select "Everywhere."
  • Search By Key Tags - curated to show frequently-searched topics.
  • Full Tag List - an alphabetical list of all tags.

Resources

  1. Getting Started At EpicureanFriends
  2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
  3. The Major Doctrines of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  4. Introductory Videos
  5. Wiki
  6. Lucretius Today Podcast
    1. Podcast Episode Guide
  7. Key Epicurean Texts
    1. Chart Of Key Quotes
    2. Outline Of Key Quotes
    3. Side-By-Side Diogenes Laertius X (Bio And All Key Writings of Epicurus)
    4. Side-By-Side Lucretius - On The Nature Of Things
    5. Side-By-Side Torquatus On Ethics
    6. Side-By-Side Velleius on Divinity
    7. Lucretius Topical Outline
    8. Usener Fragment Collection
  8. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. FAQ Discussions
  9. Full List of Forums
    1. Physics Discussions
    2. Canonics Discussions
    3. Ethics Discussions
    4. All Recent Forum Activities
  10. Image Gallery
  11. Featured Articles
  12. Featured Blog Posts
  13. Quiz Section
  14. Activities Calendar
  15. Special Resource Pages
  16. File Database
  17. Site Map
    1. Home

Frequently Used Forums

  • Frequently Asked / Introductory Questions
  • News And Announcements
  • Lucretius Today Podcast
  • Physics (The Nature of the Universe)
  • Canonics (The Tests Of Truth)
  • Ethics (How To Live)
  • Against Determinism
  • Against Skepticism
  • The "Meaning of Life" Question
  • Uncategorized Discussion
  • Comparisons With Other Philosophies
  • Historical Figures
  • Ancient Texts
  • Decline of The Ancient Epicurean Age
  • Unsolved Questions of Epicurean History
  • Welcome New Participants
  • Events - Activism - Outreach
  • Full Forum List

Latest Posts

  • Discussion of the thread - Against Katastematic Supremacy - Pleasure Is A Unified Whole And Not A House Divided - Forum Editorial Policy

    Cassius July 17, 2026 at 3:19 PM
  • Discussion of Article: Living For the Pleasures Of The Moment Isn't Epicurean, It's Lunacy

    Cassius July 17, 2026 at 3:07 PM
  • New Article By Eikadistes on Twentiers Site -- Fragments from Philodemus "On Gods"

    Cassius July 17, 2026 at 10:38 AM
  • Welcome WilliamJ!

    Kalosyni July 17, 2026 at 8:29 AM
  • What would Epicurus have said about Homer's Odyssey?

    Kalosyni July 16, 2026 at 9:10 AM
  • During the time of Epicurus, who could read well enough to study philosophy?

    Kalosyni July 16, 2026 at 9:00 AM
  • World's Worst Epicurus Videos

    Cassius July 15, 2026 at 6:32 PM
  • Marriage, Children, & Personal Relationships - Greater Difficulties and Risk Can Make Them Harder Than Ever. Epicurean Perspectives on Remedies

    Cassius July 15, 2026 at 4:37 PM
  • Welcome Max Duboff

    Cassius July 14, 2026 at 2:56 PM
  • Episode 342 - EATAQ24 - Were Our Minds Designed To Be Good At Pursuing Knowledge?

    Cassius July 14, 2026 at 10:38 AM

Frequently Used Tags

In addition to posting in the appropriate forums, participants are encouraged to reference the following tags in their posts:

  • #Physics
    • #Atomism
    • #Gods
    • #Images
    • #Infinity
    • #Eternity
    • #Life
    • #Death
  • #Canonics
    • #Knowledge
    • #Scepticism
  • #Ethics

    • #Pleasure
    • #Pain
    • #Engagement
    • #EpicureanLiving
    • #Happiness
    • #Virtue
      • #Wisdom
      • #Temperance
      • #Courage
      • #Justice
      • #Honesty
      • #Faith (Confidence)
      • #Suavity
      • #Consideration
      • #Hope
      • #Gratitude
      • #Friendship



Click Here To Search All Tags

To Suggest Additions To This List Click Here

EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy

  1. Home
    1. About Us
    2. Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Wiki
    1. Getting Started
  3. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. Site Map
  4. Forum
    1. Latest Threads
    2. Featured Threads
    3. Unread Posts
  5. Texts
    1. Core Texts
    2. Biography of Epicurus
    3. Lucretius
  6. Articles
    1. Latest Articles
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured Images
  8. Calendar
    1. This Month At EpicureanFriends
Powered by WoltLab Suite™ 6.0.26
Style: Inspire by cls-design
Stylename
Inspire
Manufacturer
cls-design
Licence
Commercial styles
Help
Supportforum
Visit cls-design