A Ciceronian Witticism Referencing Epicurus

    This reference from Cicero's "On Divination seems fairly funny, and it might not even be demeaning to Epicurus, as Cicero can often be. But I bet there is more to the reference of "corn rising on the market" than is immediately obvious to me, so I thought I would post and maybe over time we can consult the Latin and track down a more precise meaning. As it is, this translation reference to corn (I think by Yonge) seems a little broad, so probably there's some subtlety to be dug out of it. I was just scanning over this looking for references to Epicurus and it's not immediately clear to me whether this is Cicero speaking for himself, or someone else speaking...

    I take it as:

    • The mice eat Epicurus's work on Pleasure.
    • The mice become obsessed with the pleasure of the belly.
    • The mice eat up all the grain in the market.
    • Grain is scarce.
    • The price goes up.

    That sounds reasonable. The mice eating Plato's Republic reflects "negatively" on the state of the commonwealth, so the mice eating "On Pleasure" reflects negatively on pleasure - and the price of grain going up might account for the pleasure of people being affected negatively.

    But is it clear that "the mice becoming obsessed with the pleasure of the belly" is a clear connection? Did the mice become obessesed with politics by eating the Republic, or is just an "indication" sent by the gods or something?

    Anyone else see any different possibilities? Otherwise I think Don's probably makes the most sense.

    Yes this is not quite at Epicurus' expense, as Cicero is of course primarily attacking divination here.

    Cicero, On Divination, 2.27.59: But are we simple and thoughtless enough to think it a portent for mice to gnaw something, when gnawing is their one business in life?... if my book by Epicurus On Pleasure had been eaten – should I have thought that the yearly produce in the market will be more expensive?

    Nos autem ita leues atque inconsiderati sumus, ut si mures corroserint aliquid, quorum est opus hoc unum, monstrum putemus?… si Epicuri De Voluptate liber rosus esset – putarem annonam in macello cariorem fore?

    Maybe a non-charitable take would go something like:

    Plato knows a lot about laws, so if the mice eat Plato, then there will be no laws.

    Epicurus knows a lot about delicacies, so if the mice eat Epicurus, there will be no delicacies (only a bunch of people desperate for corn). As in, something like scarcity.

    The idea being, I suppose, that a mouse's dietary choices are an omen presaging a social decline of sort.

Finding Things At EpicureanFriends.com

Here is a list of suggested search strategies:

  • Website Overview page - clickable links arrranged by cards.
  • Forum Main Page - list of forums and subforums arranged by topic. Threads are posted according to relevant topics. The "Uncategorized subforum" contains threads which do not fall into any existing topic (also contains older "unfiled" threads which will soon be moved).
  • Search Tool - icon is located on the top right of every page. Note that the search box asks you what section of the forum you'd like to search. If you don't know, select "Everywhere."
  • Search By Key Tags - curated to show frequently-searched topics.
  • Full Tag List - an alphabetical list of all tags.