1. Home
    1. Study Guide
    2. Community Standards
    3. Site Map
    4. Quizzes
    5. Articles On Physics
    6. Articles On Canonics
    7. Articles On Ethics
    8. All Articles
    9. Elli's Blog Posts
    10. Kalosyni's Blog
    11. All Blog Posts
  2. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Files
    4. Search Assistance
    5. Foundations
    6. Navigation Outlines
    7. Reading List
    8. Key Pages
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Ancient Texts Forum
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Forum Shortcuts
    8. Forum Navigation Map
    9. Featured
    10. Most Discussed
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
    4. Search By Tag
    5. Complete Tag List
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Torquatus On Ethics
    3. Velleius On Divinity
    4. Diogenes Laertius
    5. Principal Doctrines
    6. Vatican Collection
    7. Lucretius
    8. Herodotus
    9. Pythocles
    10. Menoeceus
    11. Fragments - Usener Collection
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Latest Images
    2. Featured images
    3. Latest Comments
  8. More
    1. Featured Content
    2. Calendar
      1. Upcoming Events List
      2. Zooms - General Info
      3. Fourth Sunday Meet-&-Greet
      4. Sunday Weekly Zoom
      5. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
      6. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    3. Logbook
    4. EF ToDo List
    5. Link-Database
  • Login
  • Register
  • Search
This Thread
  • Everywhere
  • This Thread
  • This Forum
  • Forum
  • Articles
  • Blog Articles
  • Files
  • Gallery
  • Events
  • Pages
  • Wiki
  • Help
  • FAQ
  • More Options
  1. Home
    1. Study Guide
    2. Community Standards
    3. Site Map
    4. Quizzes
    5. Articles On Physics
    6. Articles On Canonics
    7. Articles On Ethics
    8. All Articles
    9. Elli's Blog Posts
    10. Kalosyni's Blog
    11. All Blog Posts
  2. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Files
    4. Search Assistance
    5. Foundations
    6. Navigation Outlines
    7. Reading List
    8. Key Pages
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Ancient Texts Forum
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Forum Shortcuts
    8. Forum Navigation Map
    9. Featured
    10. Most Discussed
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
    4. Search By Tag
    5. Complete Tag List
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Torquatus On Ethics
    3. Velleius On Divinity
    4. Diogenes Laertius
    5. Principal Doctrines
    6. Vatican Collection
    7. Lucretius
    8. Herodotus
    9. Pythocles
    10. Menoeceus
    11. Fragments - Usener Collection
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Latest Images
    2. Featured images
    3. Latest Comments
  8. More
    1. Featured Content
    2. Calendar
      1. Upcoming Events List
      2. Zooms - General Info
      3. Fourth Sunday Meet-&-Greet
      4. Sunday Weekly Zoom
      5. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
      6. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    3. Logbook
    4. EF ToDo List
    5. Link-Database
  1. Home
    1. Study Guide
    2. Community Standards
    3. Site Map
    4. Quizzes
    5. Articles On Physics
    6. Articles On Canonics
    7. Articles On Ethics
    8. All Articles
    9. Elli's Blog Posts
    10. Kalosyni's Blog
    11. All Blog Posts
  2. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Files
    4. Search Assistance
    5. Foundations
    6. Navigation Outlines
    7. Reading List
    8. Key Pages
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Ancient Texts Forum
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Forum Shortcuts
    8. Forum Navigation Map
    9. Featured
    10. Most Discussed
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
    4. Search By Tag
    5. Complete Tag List
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Torquatus On Ethics
    3. Velleius On Divinity
    4. Diogenes Laertius
    5. Principal Doctrines
    6. Vatican Collection
    7. Lucretius
    8. Herodotus
    9. Pythocles
    10. Menoeceus
    11. Fragments - Usener Collection
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Latest Images
    2. Featured images
    3. Latest Comments
  8. More
    1. Featured Content
    2. Calendar
      1. Upcoming Events List
      2. Zooms - General Info
      3. Fourth Sunday Meet-&-Greet
      4. Sunday Weekly Zoom
      5. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
      6. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    3. Logbook
    4. EF ToDo List
    5. Link-Database
  1. EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Forum
  3. Ethics - How To Live
  4. The Term "Pleasure" Means The Same As "Absence of Pain," And Includes All Experience Which Is Not Painful Not Painful
  • Sidebar
  • Sidebar

The Problem of Leaving "Ataraxia" Untranslated

  • Cassius
  • May 6, 2020 at 10:09 AM
  • Go to last post
  • Cassius
    5 - Administrator
    Points
    114,506
    Posts
    15,820
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • May 6, 2020 at 10:09 AM
    • #1

    What bothers me most is for example here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ataraxia

    This entry is a series of assertions about philosophical positions - but on what is it based? I see no texts citing words of the philosophers themselves for these definitions. In describing the alleged philosophical positions we are relying entirely on the commentator as authority for his own assertions.

    Given how widely differently Epicurus used the term "gods" than we use that word today, I think it is entirely possible that the common definition of ataraxia, even among Greeks, may be widely different than any particular philosopher used it.

    When you go beyond the root meanings, which apparently are pretty clear: (Ataraxia (ἀταραξία, alpha privative negation of tarachê -- disturbance, trouble;[1] hence, "unperturbedness", generally translated as "imperturbability", "equanimity", or "tranquility") how do we know than any of the added atttributes beyond this are what Epicurus (or any other philosopher) was saying?

    For example " a lucid state of robust equanimity characterized by ongoing freedom from distress and worry. In non-philosophical usage, the term was used to describe the ideal mental state for soldiers entering battle. " REALLY? Are we really sure that a particular reference was intended to confey all this added meaning beyond just "undisturbed"?

    I would think it would be much better to start with root meanings and make absolutely sure that if we add more to that, we have the addition specified by the philosopher himself, so that we do not get our conclusions polluted by commentators who may be sincere, but may be totally wrong.

    Check the references to that wikipedia article. Okeefe, Warren.... In particular how it is alleged that the Epicurean view of ataraxoa revolves around katatestematic pleaures: "Katastematic pleasures were regarded to be better than kinetic pleasures by Epicurus, believing that one could feel no more pleasure than the removal of all pain."

    By letting people with a particular view of Epicurus define the term which supposedly (in some people's minds) represent the goal of the philosophy you are letting them define the philosophy itself.

    This is very dangerous. - to allow a single word definition to overrule and decide the outcome of every significant issue in the philosophical debate - and that's just what Jason L was suggesting yesterday - he's suggesting that we NOT translate it and just go with the definition war that is being dominated by the Okeefe versions of epicurean philosophy. All someone has to do is flip over to that wikipedia definition, believe that it reflects Epicurus, and they are - rightly - going to be totally turned off to Epicurus.

  • Cassius
    5 - Administrator
    Points
    114,506
    Posts
    15,820
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • May 6, 2020 at 10:10 AM
    • #2

    Elli's vocabulary list -- which is excellent - but which unfortunately we cannot expect most new people to have access to:

  • Cassius January 23, 2021 at 8:22 AM

    Moved the thread from forum "Tranquility" - Understanding the concept of "Ataraxia" to forum The Relationship of Pleasure To Absence of Pain And Disturbance.

Finding Things At EpicureanFriends.com

Here is a list of suggested search strategies:

  • Website Overview page - clickable links arrranged by cards.
  • Forum Main Page - list of forums and subforums arranged by topic. Threads are posted according to relevant topics. The "Uncategorized subforum" contains threads which do not fall into any existing topic (also contains older "unfiled" threads which will soon be moved).
  • Search Tool - icon is located on the top right of every page. Note that the search box asks you what section of the forum you'd like to search. If you don't know, select "Everywhere."
  • Search By Key Tags - curated to show frequently-searched topics.
  • Full Tag List - an alphabetical list of all tags.

Resources

  1. Getting Started At EpicureanFriends
  2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
  3. The Major Doctrines of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  4. Introductory Videos
  5. Wiki
  6. Lucretius Today Podcast
    1. Podcast Episode Guide
  7. Key Epicurean Texts
    1. Chart Of Key Quotes
    2. Outline Of Key Quotes
    3. Side-By-Side Diogenes Laertius X (Bio And All Key Writings of Epicurus)
    4. Side-By-Side Lucretius - On The Nature Of Things
    5. Side-By-Side Torquatus On Ethics
    6. Side-By-Side Velleius on Divinity
    7. Lucretius Topical Outline
    8. Usener Fragment Collection
  8. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. FAQ Discussions
  9. Full List of Forums
    1. Physics Discussions
    2. Canonics Discussions
    3. Ethics Discussions
    4. All Recent Forum Activities
  10. Image Gallery
  11. Featured Articles
  12. Featured Blog Posts
  13. Quiz Section
  14. Activities Calendar
  15. Special Resource Pages
  16. File Database
  17. Site Map
    1. Home

Frequently Used Forums

  • Frequently Asked / Introductory Questions
  • News And Announcements
  • Lucretius Today Podcast
  • Physics (The Nature of the Universe)
  • Canonics (The Tests Of Truth)
  • Ethics (How To Live)
  • Against Determinism
  • Against Skepticism
  • The "Meaning of Life" Question
  • Uncategorized Discussion
  • Comparisons With Other Philosophies
  • Historical Figures
  • Ancient Writers and Texts
  • Decline of The Ancient Epicurean Age
  • Unsolved Questions of Epicurean History
  • Welcome New Participants
  • Events - Activism - Outreach
  • Full Forum List

Latest Posts

  • Virtues are Entirely Instumental

    Kalosyni September 22, 2026 at 8:36 AM
  • What Happened at an Epicurean Symposium?

    Kalosyni September 21, 2026 at 2:21 PM
  • Suggestions For - "What I Wish I Had Known At 21 That I Now Know From Studying Epicurus"

    Cassius September 21, 2026 at 8:02 AM
  • Episode 349 - EATAQ31 - Navigating Questions of Knowledge With Ships and Heaps

    Patrikios September 20, 2026 at 9:39 AM
  • Happy Twentieth of September 2026!

    Cassius September 20, 2026 at 9:27 AM
  • Revisiting Issues of The Use of AI in Epicurean Philosophy

    Kalosyni September 20, 2026 at 8:01 AM
  • Episode 352 - EATAQ34 - Dogs, Wolves, And What Is That In Sheeps' Clothing? - Not Yet Recorded

    Cassius September 19, 2026 at 7:36 PM
  • Episode 351 - EATAQ33 - Heap Big Trouble For The Stoic - Platonic Approach To Knowledge

    Cassius September 19, 2026 at 6:36 AM
  • Exposition therapy,Courage and when choosing Pain

    SillyApe September 18, 2026 at 6:11 PM
  • A Systematic Review of the Determinants of Happiness (Article)

    Kalosyni September 14, 2026 at 4:13 PM

Frequently Used Tags

In addition to posting in the appropriate forums, participants are encouraged to reference the following tags in their posts:

  • #Physics
    • #Atomism
    • #Gods
    • #Images
    • #Infinity
    • #Eternity
    • #Life
    • #Death
  • #Canonics
    • #Knowledge
    • #Scepticism
  • #Ethics

    • #Pleasure
    • #Pain
    • #Engagement
    • #EpicureanLiving
    • #Happiness
    • #Virtue
      • #Wisdom
      • #Temperance
      • #Courage
      • #Justice
      • #Honesty
      • #Faith (Confidence)
      • #Suavity
      • #Consideration
      • #Hope
      • #Gratitude
      • #Friendship



Click Here To Search All Tags

To Suggest Additions To This List Click Here

EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy

  1. Home
    1. About Us
    2. Classical Epicurean Philosophy
    3. Rules, Terms & Policies
  2. Wiki
    1. Getting Started
  3. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. Site Map
  4. Forum
    1. Latest Threads
    2. Featured Threads
    3. Unread Posts
  5. Texts
    1. Core Texts
    2. Biography of Epicurus
    3. Lucretius
  6. Articles
    1. Latest Articles
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured Images
  8. Calendar
    1. This Month At EpicureanFriends
Powered by WoltLab Suite™ 6.0.27
Style: Inspire by cls-design
Stylename
Inspire
Manufacturer
cls-design
Licence
Commercial styles
Help
Supportforum
Visit cls-design