Recent Updates From Across EpicureanFriends.com

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I think we definitely agree on that, and that's why it is so important to see happiness as a balance in which pleasure predominates over pain, rather than expecting that TOTAL absence of pain is going to be achievable in real life.

I see this as…

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Ah! But I would posit that there is mental pain in considering all that time in the car, having to stop along the way, how much gas it might take, etc.

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I should have used "desire" instead of "motivation." And, using that, I suppose the desire is…

Episode 287 of the Lucretius Today Podcast is now available. Today our episode is entitled: "The Fear of Pain Is Overrated, But Cicero and Epicurus Disagree As To Why."

[media]https://www.spreaker.com/episode/66733199/media

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I think that if you do a lot of "calculating" then there will be times that for a particular activity, the amount of pleasure produced breaks even with the amount of effort required...therefore you could reason with yourself that you might as well not…

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This comes very close, or is at least analogous, to the question of whether all "desire" should be seen to be painful.

My personal view is that not all desire is painful, and neither is all effort. And in the case of either desire or effort, even in…

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Bingo Rolf! Exactly what I hoped you were thinking.

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Depends on the definition of pain and/or effort being used.

Any effort seems to me to be use of force or energy against some impediment or towards some goal which someone is trying overcome or to arrive at.

Sure, the motivation for the effort of…

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Speaking for myself here: I’m not putting in enough effort to remove pain if I’m still experiencing an abundance of (removable) pain. I’m putting too much effort into removing pain if the effort itself is increasing the level of pain I’m experiencing.

In other words, if one could achieve maximum pleasure with no effort, then there would be no reason to put in any effort. But since this is seldom, if ever, the case, my answer is “as much effort as it takes”.

Hmm, I’ll try to put this into words. With all due respect to Kalosyni, “effort” seems like a strange way to conceptualise the pursuit of pleasure. I suppose in a sense the answer is “as much effort as possible” - what else could be more important?


Just…

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Is effort always painful? (I don't think so myself).

Vatican Saying 41 hints at putting effort into things:

"We must laugh and philosophize at the same time, and do our household duties, and employ our other faculties, and never cease proclaiming the…

Why art thou confused, Sir Rolf ? I would like to think I can predict your concern but I am not sure.

Cassius created a new event:
epicureanfriends.com/wcf/calendar/event/2871/

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Our Sunday Zoom Meeting is held at 12:30 PM Eastern Time in the USA to allow maximum participation in the Western Hemisphere from California to Eastern Europe. Regular participants on the forum can post a request to participate in the thread here and we…

What Don says is true and also a lot turns on what definition you give to "effort." Building a stone wall with an inscription about Epicurus takes a lot of a certain type of effort. So does composing six long books of a poem. So does writing 37 books on…

I don't think "effort" is the right way to think about it.

The pleasure of aponia connotes both "without toil or trouble, effortless" and "painless; free from pain."

A more productive way to think about pursuing pleasure is to get out of its way, to…

Question to add to the FAQ section: What amount of effort should be put into pursuing pleasure? ...Is there such a thing as not enough effort or too much effort when pursuing pleasure? Also, you could ask the flip side of the question, What amount of…

That is a good idea but I don't think we have addressed that specifically before, at least in those terms, so we probably out to create a separate thread in the ethics forum so we can discuss it before distilling a FAQ answer. Can you do that please? Or…

I have a question to suggest for the FAQ section:

How much effort should I be putting into pursuing pleasure? ...Is there such a thing as not enough effort or too much effort when pursuing pleasure?

FWIW Since we're bringing up John Brown, within the past few days I came across John Brown's final court speech as presented by actor David Strathairn:

youtu.be/dmyswQs6_Bw?si=XS2GdH6tHiER9j1a

I had never heard of this before, but powerful oration.

We're still in the early editing phase of this week's edition, but I think I will go ahead and post this link to a topic that Joshua introduces fairly early in this episode. Joshua's topic is the story of John Brown, and especially statements made by…

As always, ifanyone has any issues, comments, or questions about any changes please let us know.

Hi Everyone, You may notice that there are a few changes in the forum structure...and also the drop-down menus.

Most notable is that "General Discussion" has been renamed to "Uncategorized Discussion (General)". This means that only posts on topics which…

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I don't think I was aware that Mars sided with the Trojans. I presume that would be a major point in his favor in the eyes of the Romans (and therefore Lucretius and Memmius).

That web site has a ton of interesting material. I don't get the idea that…

FYI

https://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Ares.html

HI there! I like my icon. <G> This setup is a very nice forum.

Venus is complex with many varying aspects/forms, and she comes about due to the earlier Aphrodite (also many aspects/forms).

Wikipedia article: Venus (mythology)

Here is a journal article: "Venus and Lucretius"

https://www.jstor.org/stable/641366

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Yes I am thinking in that direction. The depictions I am seeing in Greek and Roman art show Mars as a warrior but not necessarily an "ogre" or "ugly" or "horrible" as we might do today in portraying some kind of monster. Along the lines of death not…

No idea of the original source, but I saw this online and it made me think of the way people attribute human-like qualities (anger, dissatisfaction, need) to the gods - which is instrumental to the idea that they are both willing and capable of…

You can't have Venus without Mars. Old things must be destroyed, must die, for new things to be created. Otherwise, nothing would change; everything would be static.