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Bryan
PostJanuary 24, 2026 at 11:59 AM […]
Regarding critique of form, Epicurus disapproved of the study of Homer in terms of comparative literature and analysis of poetic meter (which were very popular pastimes among the elites in his day -- elites who were not inclined to take Homer… -
Cassius
January 24, 2026 at 4:06 AM Replied to the thread Happy Birthday General Thread.PostHappy Birthday to EricR! Learn more about EricR and say happy birthday on EricR's timeline: EricR -
Bryan
January 23, 2026 at 10:17 PM Replied to the thread The "Suggested Further Reading" in "Living for Pleasure".Post[…]
This looks like good "seeing the forest through the trees" material, but we need an audio version... Looking at the whole forest is too tedious -- but it is easier to listen to the whole forest. -
Bryan
January 23, 2026 at 9:33 PM Replied to the thread New "TWENTIERS" Website.Post[…]
Your productivity has made it difficult to keep up lately, but that is a great problem to have. This is wonderfully done! The translation and the presentation are both spectacular.
As you know, we need to do this to all the P.Hercs. The task is large.… -
TauPhi
January 23, 2026 at 8:36 PM Replied to the thread The "Suggested Further Reading" in "Living for Pleasure".Post[…]
Hi Cleveland Okie . Good to hear from you.
You've read a lot of secondary material on Epicurean Philosophy already so recommending you another contemporary book would make you read the same, rehashed ideas all over again. I'll try something more… -
Eikadistes
January 23, 2026 at 6:04 PM Replied to the thread New "TWENTIERS" Website.Post[…]
Great suggestion! (and solid reasoning) I'm immediately stealing it.
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TauPhi
January 23, 2026 at 5:11 PM Replied to the thread New "TWENTIERS" Website.PostThank you Eikadistes . To read something completely new so close to the source is a real treat.
I especially like this part: 'and [we will] forever [live] having remembered [them] exactly as during [their] time living, [thoughtful] of the natural end,… -
Bryan
PostJanuary 23, 2026 at 4:54 PM […]
Yes, of course we have this section, 2.20, but it does not expand on the idea very much.
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Cassius
PostJanuary 23, 2026 at 4:25 PM I am unable to find an academic article on point, but I am sure that my searching is incomplete. Desire and Pleasure are such common topics that references to the point could be made any number of places, but we're looking for something very specific to… -
Cassius
PostJanuary 23, 2026 at 4:01 PM […]
Yes that's why I highlighted that point in my post above. I do think the distinction makes sense, but when I see these respected translators seemingly using the words interchangeably, here and in Tusculan Disputations, I really don't know what to… -
Godfrey
PostJanuary 23, 2026 at 3:52 PM Notice that Plato is discussing necessary/unnecessary pleasures, whereas Epicurus distinguishes necessary/unnecessary desires. As we've discussed elsewhere, this is an important distinction, specially since all pleasures are defined as good by Epicurus. -
Cassius
PostJanuary 23, 2026 at 3:13 PM It's going to be very difficult to digest the context in which this appears, what use Plato was making of it, and how and why Epicurus objected. Nevertheless the subject is very clearly discussed by Plato in Book 8 of the Republic in reference to the… -
wbernys
January 23, 2026 at 2:49 PM Replied to the thread Fourth Sunday Zoom - Jan. 25, 2026 - Epicurean Philosophy Discussion Via Zoom - Agenda.PostUnfortunately I seemingly always work these times on Sunday. Hopefully I can eventually go, or maybe schedule something. Hope to see you all at some point. -
Cassius
January 23, 2026 at 2:15 PM Replied to the thread Inferential Foundations of Epicurean Ethics - Article By David Sedley.PostOh Ok good catch! I meant my comment only to apply to the issue of dividing all feelings (all good and bad, since there is nothing intrinsically good but pleasure nor bad but pain) into either pleasure or pain.
I would not want anyone to read that more… -
Joshua
January 23, 2026 at 2:09 PM Replied to the thread Inferential Foundations of Epicurean Ethics - Article By David Sedley.Post[…]
My point is that when it comes to ethics almost everything falls outside of that structure. This is parallel to atomism only by happenstance; there is no Sith rule-of-two that governs every aspect of Epicureanism, or of nature, or of human life. -
Cassius
PostJanuary 23, 2026 at 2:04 PM Here's a link to Plato's Republic Book 8, which presumably is the start of the discussion that continues into Book 9 discussing Plato's views of natural and necessary -
Cassius
January 23, 2026 at 2:00 PM Replied to the thread Inferential Foundations of Epicurean Ethics - Article By David Sedley.PostJoshua it would probably help people reading along if you could elaborate on these two when you get time:
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At least as I am understanding the discussion, all we are talking about here is that Epicurus held there to be only two feelings, pleasure and… -
Cassius
PostJanuary 23, 2026 at 1:35 PM I should say that I included the commentary above not because I think it is correct, but that it points to an important connection to Plato. In fact, I disagree with most of the commentary he gives on Epicurus, especially "For him, the pleasure that… -
Joshua
January 23, 2026 at 1:15 PM Replied to the thread Inferential Foundations of Epicurean Ethics - Article By David Sedley.Post[…]
Not only do I reject the Ethical side of this argument except insofar as it is restricted exclusively to pathos, I also notice that this is exactly the kind of absolutism that Cicero employs himself:
[…]
So I say again, it is no good blaming Cicero for… -
Cassius
PostJanuary 23, 2026 at 12:08 PM Wait -- "Anorexia" in the Greek means someone suffering from a general lack of desire? And it doesn't refer specifically to food in the Greek? I didn't know that! So the term is much more applicable to to many more situations than I would have… -
Cassius
PostJanuary 23, 2026 at 11:53 AM I am still looking for further sources on CONVENTION but in looking at history of discussion of natural and necessary I see this (of immediate interest is the part on the CYNICS and the use of CONVENTION in this context). But this isn't a direct… -
Cassius
FileJanuary 23, 2026 at 11:29 AM -
Cassius
PostJanuary 23, 2026 at 11:16 AM As to other ancient sources beyond Diogenes Laertius and Cicero that might be of help, I see that Diogenes of Oinoanda repeats the main citations but offers no additional explanation:
Fragment 32
Each (virtue?) therefore ............... means of (?) ...… -
Cassius
PostJanuary 23, 2026 at 11:11 AM As to Lucretius, I am finding zero reference to the natural and necessary categories. There are lots of ethical references in Lucretius to restraining desires, but I am not seeing the specific "natural and necessary" classification.
I find this even more… -
Cassius
PostJanuary 23, 2026 at 11:01 AM Thanks for those quotes Bryan!
Those lead me to ask: In this context does "convention" focus on "agreement between multiple people"? I could almost seeing these quotes referring to "the conclusions of reason" or even something indicated by prolepsis /… -
Cassius
PostJanuary 23, 2026 at 10:53 AM I am going to attempt to see what other citations I can find that might shed light on the relationship. I woke up this morning thinking that given how ethically-oriented it is, surely Frances Wright at least mentions the natural and necessary categories… -
Bryan
PostJanuary 23, 2026 at 10:50 AM I will throw in a few related quotes:
"Epicurus {as reported by Colotes} acts with the purest effrontery when he claims to lay down the same first principles, but nevertheless does not say that "color is by convention" and thus the qualities sweet,… -
Godfrey
PostJanuary 23, 2026 at 10:40 AM Rereading my last post, it would seem that I do agree with "we would never... pursue a desire that is neither natural or necessary." I pursue desires that are unnecessary, but I do try to avoid the unnatural.
To my embarrassment it seems that I misread… -
Kalosyni
January 23, 2026 at 10:31 AM Replied to the thread Fourth Sunday Zoom - Jan. 25, 2026 - Epicurean Philosophy Discussion Via Zoom - Agenda.PostA shout-out to our newer members and anyone who hasn't previously attended a Zoom meeting...
Inviting all forum members to "Fourth Sunday" (this next Sunday)...which will have time for questions about the forum and Epicurean philosophy.
And Cassius will be…
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