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Bryan
July 18, 2025 at 6:42 PM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.Post[…]
Although I think that would require adding τοῦ before καλοῦ, giving μετὰ [τοῦ] καλοῦ πλείονος, but even then we would expect μετὰ πλείονος [τοῦ] καλοῦ -- all of which is more of a change than from πλειονος to παιωνος.
In further support of this, we do… -
Cassius
ThreadJuly 18, 2025 at 2:24 PM It seems to me that the content of many of our Lucretius Today episodes over the last several years makes them worthy of exposure to a wider audience. I am therefore going to experiment with creating edited transcripts of them for posting as articles on… -
Cassius
July 18, 2025 at 2:06 PM Replied to the thread Episode 190 - Cicero's On Ends - Book One - Part 01.PostFighting Back Against the Anti-Epicureans - Part 01
The following episode of episode 190 of the Lucretius Today podcast was released on August 28, 2023. This transcript is being republished as part of a new series of articles entitled "Fighting Back… -
Kalosyni
July 18, 2025 at 8:17 AM Replied to a comment by Pacatus on the image A Life Full of Pleasure.Reply (Image/Video)Pacatus My idea was to keep the categories at a fairly high level of abstraction. I am not sure that those specific pleasures you mentioned are necessary for everyone. And thinking further I should probably remove music and traveling from the list if… -
Don
July 18, 2025 at 7:14 AM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.PostAnd if you go back to our discussion at the start of this thread: remember that παιωνος "triumph song" doesn't appear in the manuscript. It's πλειονος. -
Eikadistes
July 17, 2025 at 9:25 PM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.Post[…]
Yeah, no explicit reference to that word, just the general idea of dismissing death.
[…]
I'm glad you brought this up because I want your take on it. I read ζῆν as an infinitive, so, even though its awkward, I try to squeeze a "to..." into the… -
Bryan
July 17, 2025 at 8:48 PM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.Post[…]
I am not seeing a reference to fears. I am seeing "...but whenever what must happen (τὸ χρεών) leads us out: having greatly spat on life and on those who cling to it in vain, we go out of life..."
(Although, of course, τὸ ζῆν is more "living"… -
Pacatus
July 17, 2025 at 5:49 PM Commented on the image A Life Full of Pleasure.Comment (Image/Video)I love this. Especially: “how life is a full rainbow of adding pleasure and removing pain.”
With due reference to the discussion of "katastematic hedonism” here: Preuss - "Epicurean Ethics - Katastematic Hedonism", I wonder what katastematic pleasures… -
Don
July 17, 2025 at 5:24 PM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.Post -
Eikadistes
July 17, 2025 at 3:58 PM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.Post[…]
I'd say ... paraphrasing, it could mean, either: [1] we are to live while embracing the grand inevitability of death, or else, [2] we are to live while spitting upon the universal fear of death. -
DaveT
July 17, 2025 at 3:49 PM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.PostComments please.
I've come across the following post questioning the attribution of VS 47 to Epicurus himself: VS 47" I have anticipated thee, Fortune, and entrenched myself against all thy secret attacks. And we will not give ourselves up as captives to… -
Bryan
July 17, 2025 at 2:47 PM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.Post[…]
We do have Johannes Stobaeus (fl. f. 450 CE) in his Anthology: volume 3, chapter 17, section 24 quoting Epicurus: "I teem with what is pleasant for this little body – using only water and bread – and I spit on the pleasures from extravagances: not… -
Cassius
July 17, 2025 at 2:18 PM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.PostHow does this relate to the phrasing of the fragment translated as about spitting on good (or is it beauty?) unless it bring pleasure? -
Eikadistes
July 17, 2025 at 2:09 PM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.PostI just wanted to add another brief reflection on the "embracing" versus "spitting" nuance:
There are a variety of ways in which people seem to interface with death: fearing death, fleeing from death, fighting death, chasing immortality, damning life, … -
Bryan
July 17, 2025 at 12:49 PM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.PostIf we take the sigma, I think we have προσπτύω. Given the active form of προσπτύσαντες, it is difficult to pair with προσπτύσσομαι. -
Cassius
July 17, 2025 at 12:37 PM Replied to the thread Episode 290 - TD20 - TipToeing Around All Disturbance Is Not Living.Post[…]
You have passed all applicable tests!
In fact in the future we may have to come up with a new award for future use: "Users who no one would ever dream are using AI!"
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Adrastus
July 17, 2025 at 11:18 AM Replied to the thread Episode 290 - TD20 - TipToeing Around All Disturbance Is Not Living.PostI sometimes like to use some strange phrasings for fun, and to a lesser extent, to demonstrate in some way I didn't use any A.I. to write.
Yes, I see Epicurus' last day as a preparation for death. An acceptance but relishing in the memories of close… -
Eikadistes
July 17, 2025 at 11:02 AM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.Post -
Eikadistes
July 17, 2025 at 10:47 AM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.Post[…]
Great question!
I found differing renderings from different authors. Bailey seems to be an outlier in his transposition; note the verb προπτύσαντες (proptúsantes) versus προσπτύσαντες (prosptúsantes).
Screenshot 2025-07-17 at 10.33.27 AM.png
The first… -
Don
July 17, 2025 at 10:37 AM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.Post[…]
Yes. I believe προσπτυσαντες conveys literally spitting upon.
Another curiosity of this VS is that it's Metrodorus writing and not Epicurus. -
Cassius
July 17, 2025 at 9:34 AM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.PostIn the meantime here is the Epicurism.info version with the Greek:
https://wiki.epicurism.info/Vatican_Saying_47/
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Kalosyni
July 17, 2025 at 8:59 AM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.PostVS47. "I have anticipated thee, Fortune, and entrenched myself against all thy secret attacks. And I will not give myself up as captive to thee or to any other circumstance; but when it is time for me to go, spitting contempt on life and on those who… -
Kalosyni
July 17, 2025 at 8:55 AM Replied to the thread Episode 290 - TD20 - TipToeing Around All Disturbance Is Not Living.PostI have some questions about the wording of VS47 and will ask over in this thread for examining the translation:
VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere -
Cassius
July 17, 2025 at 8:08 AM Replied to the thread Episode 290 - TD20 - TipToeing Around All Disturbance Is Not Living.Post[…]
Good post Adrastas and I agree with it, but it might be worth discussing the two words I underlined there, "despair" and "unassuagedly disturbed." I don't think Joshua or I used those words in the podcast, and this would be worth discussing.
All these… -
Don
July 17, 2025 at 7:23 AM Replied to the thread Episode 290 - TD20 - TipToeing Around All Disturbance Is Not Living.Post -
Adrastus
July 17, 2025 at 7:02 AM Replied to the thread Episode 290 - TD20 - TipToeing Around All Disturbance Is Not Living.PostBrings me so much joy hearing this episode. I feel like the ataraxic mind guards against the perils and pains of life, but I think Epicurus redeems the somewhat listless ataraxic state by arguing that emotions are there to guide us towards a sagely life… -
Cassius
July 17, 2025 at 4:05 AM Replied to the thread Happy Birthday General Thread.PostHappy Birthday to ehaimerl! Learn more about ehaimerl and say happy birthday on ehaimerl's timeline: ehaimerl -
Kalosyni
July 16, 2025 at 7:54 PM Uploaded the image A Life Full of Pleasure.Image/Video
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Cassius
July 16, 2025 at 4:55 PM Posted the thread Welcome Ehaimerl!.ThreadWelcome ehaimerl
There is one last step to complete your registration:
All new registrants must post a response to this message here in this welcome thread (we do this in order to minimize spam registrations).
You must post your response within 24 hours,… -
Cassius
July 16, 2025 at 3:31 PM Posted the thread Episode 291 - TD21 - Not Yet Recorded.ThreadWelcome to Episode 291 of Lucretius Today. This is a podcast dedicated to the poet Lucretius, who wrote "On The Nature of Things," the most complete presentation of Epicurean philosophy left to us from the ancient world.
Each week we walk you through the…
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