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I don't think Bryan meant to imply that, If following dominant interpretations were always a good idea, Epicurus would have accepted intelligent design for his physics and we would all be Abrahamists today! 😀

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Both are true. Neither don't necessarily adequately fully describe our lived experience.

There certainly appear to be such things as atoms and subatomic particles.

There certainly appear to be such things as quantum fluctuations in quantum fields.

My…

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Fascinating! Does this mean that we as Epicureans would be wise to align ourselves with modern scientific understanding, adopt this view as the most probable explanation, and ditch the Epicurean view on static atoms and void?

The following is from post 10 in the thread on Philodemus (referenced above), and a good summary:

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The current dominant interpretation in theoretical physics is far closer to Heraclitus’ flux, which imagines a universe in constant transformation, where particles are not solid entities but fleeting excitations in dynamic fields. In this view, reality…

Welcome dlippman

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I really enjoyed chewing on these ancient slurs.

I appreciate that there seems to be a universal preconception for "Hater" or "Haters".

In particular, I like thinking that Plato is not just "golden", but "gilded", as in, "cheap" and "superficial", like…

The "rage" probably implicates the discussion of the "good" vs "bad" types of anger in Philodemus and elsewhere. I can see the argument that being angry with your disease (or deterioration with age) would be of assistance in prolonging life and pleasure.

Welcome Ben Hari

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That's interesting; I've never come across that idea named before.

Back in theatre school, they used to tell us (as regards auditions), "You're basically three people..."; I've heard this from so many, random acting coaches and casting agents: "Who…

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My post #43 is just a collection of the sources De Witt cites.

So, no issues taken, there! He's accurate.

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Thanks Don and Kalosyni for your perspectives on effort & pain.


While there can be pain in the effort to learn a new skill or a new exercise, there may come a time where the effort produces no pain, but joy in accomplishment. In some cases for…

I think for me at least the difference between Toxic Positivity and whatever we may deem as healthy, is having methods to be comfortable and ultimately resolve any painful, unpleasant or relationship altering feelings. Still though, happiness is a choice…

FWIW

https://www.sparknotes.com/poetry/do-not-go-gentle/overview/

And here's a dramatic performance of the poem from Thomas' fellow Welshman, Michael Sheen

youtu.be/w-sM-t1KI_Y?si=Jny5yyCI_TRDF-mv

I'm a big fan of this poem, but I feel it's acutely anti-Epicurean. "Raging against the dying of the light" brings to mind a bitter and agonising response to dying. Of course an Epicurean would hardly welcome death (beyond very specific scenarios),…

And I'd say this Vatican Saying calls for comparison:

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I don't know anything about the context of Dylan Thomas or whether he's commented about what he means or any background. Anyone looked into the poem and found anything they'd care to recommend? All I know is that it is well known.

"do not go gentle"…

Dylan Thomas' poem is not that long, so here it is in its entirety:

Do not go gentle into that good night,

Old age should burn and rave at close of day;

Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,

Because their…

Let's do a separate thread on the Dylan Thomas poem:

Epicurus And The Dylan Thomas Poem - "Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night"

Don referenced this poem so maybe we should discuss it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_not_go…that_good_night

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Fixed it.

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I'm not willing to agree to that.

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I'm not arguing against that, but that's exactly what I'm trying to get across. My primary position is against taking "extraordinary" measures to preserve life "at all costs" when death is imminent or…

Lots of interesting stuff there including the rage against the dying light which might need its own thread to analyze.

But I think we are establishing that drinking unmixed wine was known to be very dangerous and thus Epicurus would have known at the…

That term toxic positivity deserves a 😀 but no doubt the problem is real - or a LACK of being real.

I would say Epicurus' and the school's general advocacy of cultivating gratitude comes close to a modern idea of positivity.

However, don't be lured into the trap of toxic positivity either:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_positivity

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I'm not sure if there is anything directly talking about having (or how to have) a positive attitude within Epicurean philosophy, but I want to recommend a book that I found to be very good: "Positivity" by Barbara Fredrickson, and which has…

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Hicks translates that section as (my emphasis): He died, according to Hermippus, through drinking too freely of unmixed wine which affected his reason; he was already seventy-five and regarded by the Athenians with unparalleled good-will.

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And Hicks…

In this episode and probably the next, it will be good to remember these two Vatican Sayings , as they are directly relevant to Cicero's discussion of preparing for hardship and dealing with it.



VS47. I have anticipated thee, Fortune, and entrenched…

I take from the poem, and the whole passage, that in Laertius' writings "drinking unmixed wine" certainly stands for "intentional death."

This was already rather clear, but I think 4.44 makes it undeniable.

So you're reading that to mean that unmixed wine can kill(?), but Bryan I find Laertius' poem hard to decipher too. What is he saying - that he died unintentionally?