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Twin Jugs of Lesbian Wine

  • Eikadistes
  • January 26, 2022 at 9:30 AM
  • 1,314 Views
  • 5 Comments

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Epicurean Friends Image Gallery

Welcome to the EpicureanFriends Image Gallery, where our Level 3 and above participants post and share images for public use in the teaching and promotion of Epicurean philosophy. Please limit contributions to those which directly relate and support the philosophy of Epicurus. Choose the topic to display by selecting from the "Categories" listed ( at left on a wide-screen device or in the footer below on a mobile device). To view the Latest Images, click here.

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Twin Jugs of Lesbian Wine

L'Apéritif or "The Appetizer" (1908) by Raoul Dufy

"Then, in the Murderer (Ό ἀνδροφόνος), Bato adds sex to the 'Epicurean' vice of drinking by day. After an unidentified character ridicules an unnamed 'decent' philosopher (in some lines that Athenaeus does not record), he continues,

ἐξὸν γυναῖκ’ ἔχοντα κατακεῖσθαι καλὴν καὶ Λεσβίου χυτρῖδε λαμβάνειν δύο· ὁ φρόνιμός ἐστι <τοῦτο,> τοῦτο τἀγαθόν. Έπίκουρος ἔλεγε ταῦθ’ ἃ νῦν ἐγὼ λέγω. εἰ τοῦτον ἔζων πάντες ὃν ἐγὼ ζῶ βίον, οὔτ’ ἄτοπος ἦν ἂν οὔτε μοιχὸς οὐδὲ εἷς.

(Ath. 7.279 c–d)

[When he can lie down with a beautiful woman and take twin jugs of Lesbian wine—This is a wise man. This is the good. Epicurus used to say the things I am saying now. If everybody lived the life that I live, not a single man would be wicked or an adulterer.]

Unfortunately, without further clues about the specific context, it is hard to tell whether the character is claiming that wicked people would not exist in an Epicurean world or whether the character means to assert that no one would be called wicked. Perhaps the sense is that a man who can drink with a woman out in the open has no need for wicked love affairs that require stealth and decep- tion.16 Is this hedonist the murderer of the title? Could the Epicurean be the victim? e comic Epicureans seem generally to have been hilariously decadent, rather than sinister, but certainty is impossible." (Pamela Gordon, The Invention and Gendering of Epicurus 22)

Comments 5

Cassius
January 26, 2022 at 12:34 PM

Ive never seen this one and i can't tell what level of confidence to place in this since it seems to be part of an attack on Epicurus. It's easy to turn his well sourced comments about not knowing the good.... Into something salacious but maybe not exactly what he said.

But either way the quote is a good way to raise the ultimate issue as to pleasure being the foundational motivator of life rather than cultural norms.

Would he have said this in his 37 books on nature or any formal setting? I doubt it. Could he have said it as a joke or in less formal setting where it would be more appropriate? By no means would I rule it out.

But of course these quotes are generally attacks so as to make him look course or ridiculous, and I would fight back against those implications.

Scott
January 26, 2022 at 6:33 PM

What you say certainly seems correct Cassius *IF* this painting is intended to reference Epicurus. But @Nate do we know this is pointed at him? Is that explained by Pamela Gordon? My guess is yes, and this painting is an example of an attempt by a non-Epicurean to present Epicurus and Epicureanism (in a pretty common way it is ridiculed) as decadent and foolish.

Cassius
January 26, 2022 at 7:23 PM

I am thinking that it is unlikely the painting was intended to reference Epicurus (was it Nate?) . It's more that this is one of a series of "memes" that Nate has produced by adding Epicurean text to a graphic of some kind, with the intent of showcasing interesting Epicurean quotes. The idea is that such things are useful in a variety of ways for sharing such as on Twitter, Facebook, etc, or use as screensavers or the like. In this case seeing the meme requires some background to properly interpret it, which isn't always a good idea for a meme, yet can work very well in some circumstances.

Don
January 26, 2022 at 9:11 PM

https://ia803100.us.archive.org/1/items/thedei…/images/438.png

The quote is from The Deipnosophists.

Don
January 26, 2022 at 9:15 PM

https://ia803100.us.archive.org/1/items/thedei…1-h/36921-h.htm

For full context, see quote right before section [439] at the Internet Archive link above.

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