Posts by Tony Fox

This text has made the meaning of that last sentence a lot clearer, thanks!

This translation comes from Peter Saint-Andre. Do you have a clearer translation? I want to thoroughly understand the first point stated by Epicurus.

Letter to Menoikos, by Epicurus

Letter to menoeceus

"The things that most people say about the gods are based on false assumption, not a firm grasp of the facts, because they say that the greatest goods and the greatest harms come from the gods."

Some myths affirm the immortality of the gods, but not their blissfulness. For example, in the myths, zeus gets enraged by prometheus for he stole the fire. In response he would have punished humanity by sending pandora.

The firm grasp of the facts, the basic understanding of the concepts, epicurus held about the gods, contradicts the myths. For in all the myths, the gods are troubled, and the heavens are unstable. In later religion, his view could be applied. A god could not concern himself with humanity, nor act as judge or saviour. He could not be wrathful, nor could he become himself human, as the christians believe. Indeed, if jezus christ was a god, he could not have suffered and died on the cross.

These myths relate to human affairs, but they would be alien to the immortal and blissful gods.

"because they say that the greatest goods and the greatest harms come from the gods."

All harms and goods are perceived through the senses. It is not the gods that make us taste bread or feel rain pour down our shoulders. Clearly we sense bread itself, and rain itself, this is what we feel, and is not the result of a creative mind.

If a green fire were to wreak havoc on california and the scientists had no explanation for his, I could blame all the gods having to do with fire, ra, gibil, agni, pele, xiuhtecuhtli, svarog, nyamhe, ogun, zhurang, jowangsin, amaterasu, odqan, arski tenger, turgmum, utar, alaz, aed, caca, huracán, tohil, jocaruitz, haashch'ééshzhiní, caricaueri', manqu, qhapaq, ti'iti'i, ngá mánuwa and aahitúoa. Clearly it's impossible to say who of the gods interfered, clearly, this isn't very usefull. We can't sense what gods were or were not involved, but what we sense is the green fire, and multible natural causes are possible.

"For since they are at home with what is best about themselves, they accept that which is similar and consider alien that which is different."

I have a question about this phrase. What is meant with 'the best'? Are the gods sometimes more blissful than usual? Else they could not have a 'best'. If the gods are blissful, do they still have degrees of pleasure?

I would very much like to attend, though I work on sundays. So I might consider bathtubs to be both natural and necessary that day

I'm very pleased to hear about the lecrutius podcast. It's a fascinating text.

I'm from the netherlands, an extremely secular country compared to the world, it's culturally abrahamic however. Most believe in primordial spiritual virtues, and think Epicurus was a hedonist. Still, moderation and discussion are considered virtues here, and there is some folkish epicureanish wisdom to be found. I'd love to hear where everyone is from!

It would seem so, I never thought of that commonality!

Rather than leaving it with the paradox or living as an atheist, I want to seek out the truth, (not live mY truth in particular).

Hello nice to be here,

I was raised catholic but I could never get around the contradictions of the christians. The problem of evil was always painful for me. Later I discovered there was this 'epicurean paradox' explaining the issue.

Later I discovered this was a groundless attribution by lactantious, a christian. It turns out the text could instead originate from Carneades, a sceptic.

So I wondered what Epicurus really taught. So far I read and studied his letter to menoeceus, his physics, his last will, and 'on the nature of things' by Titus Lucretius. I love his ideas on death, the myths and justice, and his physics.

Glad to be here, and I'm looking forward to talking in this garden.

I intend to read, learn, and share all the wisdom we need to live well,

Tony Fox