Posts by Patrikios

Quote from Pacatus

“As a practical matter it seems to me that Epicurus was right that it would be impossible for us to live happily if we did not organize our lives as if we are confident that we have some amount of free agency. … That has to be good enough and I judge it to be good enough - at least for me.”

– Cassius post #4 above.

Cassius Your commentary is quite timely, especially for those of us making decisions related to the vagaries of storms & hurricanes.

First, my wife & I are back home safely Thursday morning on the bay, after riding out Milton 6 miles inland on west coast of FL with strong winds & rain. Yet the stillness we experienced last night standing outside during the Eye of the Storm, brought a few moments of tranquility from the wind noise. The Eye also let us know to expect the stronger winds as the back wall of winds hit a few minutes later last night.

Second, we are fortunate to have benefits of science that enables us to organize our lives, track the storm better and make prudent decisions to deal with the necessity of shelter, food & water; while accepting nature’s vagaries of chance, especially with such a powerful storm (wind speeds & direction, rainfall amounts).

Thirdly, according to these principles of Epicurus, we can choose to re-organize our lives prudently to live happily & harmoniously with some new realities of nature, while not attributing the good or bad effects of such natural events to any gods.

Again I appreciate the relevancy of these Epicurean Friends dialogues. 🙏

Quote from TauPhi

Clotho (Κλωθώ) - The Sister of Choice, the Spinner. She weaves the thread of our lives. She employees us as actors in 'The Life' play where we make the choices which are ours despite the fact that they are limited by the chances and necessities of the stage and the theatre.

I like this idea of the “thread of life” as a metaphor to view our journey through life. Seeing the 3 sides of the Moirai, makes sense to me in better understanding our roles & responsibilities in Life. As I understand, Epicurus tells us to learn from Devine Nature how all 3 of these facets work to achieve a balanced, happy life. In other words, by recognizing that necessity and chance do occur in everyday life, we should also recognize that our free will is not prevented by them, but we can prudently evaluate the opportunities and obstacles from those two sisters. Then we can exercise our free will to choose the best path for our continued journey steps.

Thanks for an interesting topic, Pacatus.

"due to a cultural background or training (either religious or cultural) that eschews pleasurable pursuits as frivolous or inappropriate."

Here is an example of the religious culture defining appropriate pursuit of happiness. In some of my family's Christian evangelical circles, any pursuit of personal pleasure is only appropriate if you follow the JOY priority of how you spend your time to bring happiness to your life:

Jesus first

Others second

Yourself last.

That was a formula that resulted in more anxiety and dis-ease. Some in those groups would use that meme as a tool for judging any "inappropriate" pursuits; often couched in condescendingly sayings such as "we'll pray for you", while thinking [and your poor lost atheist soul]. This may be an example where their interpretations of 'scripture' led them to their own 'hedonophobia', which they attempted to spread to others in their circle.

Through our studies of Epicurus, I have come to understand the importance to instead follow the airplane rule: "put on your oxygen mask first, before you help someone else." Through our prudent evaluation of pleasures and the work/effort required to obtain them, we can be thoughtful and supportive of the needs of family and friends, while maintaining an Epicurean practice that enables us to operate from a core sense of happiness, as our basic necessities are met.

Quote from Kalosyni

… if there are any other introductory members (or established members who have never attended) interested please let us know and we can add you to the Zoom link list (link goes out the day before the meeting).

I would love to attend the zoom meeting on 7th.

Quote from Cassius

I am glad we reached this section before we do our special episode on the "real vs ideal" debate. This section contains some very interesting material on images, a subject that most seem to agree play into the question of prolepsis.

I’m looking forward to your upcoming podcast discussion of the Epicurean idea of "images flowing" and how this ties into human perception and knowledge. From my reading of Epicurus (although I can’t cite source), all objects continuously emit thin films of atoms called eidola or "images." These images flow through space and interact with our senses, particularly our eyes, to create perceptions. These images maintained the shape and properties of the objects they came from, allowing us to perceive the world accurately. I find this to be a reasonable explanation for perception, consistent with Epicurean atomic theory, and refined (not discredited) today’s scientific knowledge.

As I understand it, Prolepsis is closely tied to the theory of flowing images because these preconceptions are ultimately derived from sensory experiences caused by these images. It's a way of explaining how we form general concepts from particular experiences, bridging the gap between atomic theory and human cognition.

I look forward to the fascinating discussion on the podcast, with maybe some commentary on how this system of thought - from flowing images to sensory perception to prolepsis - forms a coherent materialist explanation for how we perceive and understand the world today, which was a cornerstone of Epicurean philosophy over 2000 years ago.

Quote from Joshua

There is an interesting remark by Stephen Greenblatt in The Swerve about libraries in antiquity, but I haven't been able to track down a source for the claim.

Quote

At the games in the Colosseum one day, the historian Tacitus had a conversation on literature with a perfect stranger who turned out to have read his works. Culture was no longer located in close-knit circles of friends and acquaintances; Tacitus was encountering his "public" in the form of someone who had bought his book at a stall in the Forum or read it in a library.

In any case, This article (PDF) gives an interesting look into how these texts might have been distributed in antiquity. Just in case Don needs a cheering-up!

Joshua , interesting question on how Epicurean texts got circulated in Ancient Greece & Italy. When I visited Greece earlier this month my tour included Olympia and Delphi, which was home to the “Pythian Games”. Each location held their games every 4 years off-set by 2 years. While the athletic games only lasted 3 or 4 days, the festival was 8 days or more.

These gatherings included opportunities for dialogue with people from around the Mediterranean. Next to the stadiums was the theater, where lectures given, along with plays and music. Many of the travelers to Olympia and Delphi paid some appropriate “alms” to the temple(s), on their way to the stadiums and theaters. Yet, many also then listened or had dialogue with teachers from Epicurean schools in Greece. While there wasn’t any direct archaeological evidence for the spreading of Epicurean discussions at these large festivals in Greece.

So, it is very likely that similar gatherings occurred around the Colosseum and Forum in Rome until around 4th century CE. My facts and memory may not be exact, but in Greece the crossroads of ideas frequently occurred around the festivals.

Here’s the Wikipedia text on Pythian Games.

“The Pythian Games (Greek: Τα Πύθια, translit. Ta Pythia) were one of the four Panhellenic Games of Ancient Greece. They were held in honour of Apollo at his sanctuary in Delphievery four years, two years after the Olympic Games, and between each Nemean and Isthmian Games. The Pythian Games were founded sometime in the 6th century BC. In legend they were started by Apollo after he killed Python and set up the Oracle at Delphi. They continued until the 4th century AD.”

Quote from Kalosyni

Vatican Saying 48:

"While you are on the road, try to make the later part better than the earlier part; and be equally happy when you reach the end."

Seems like an Epicurean would evaluate and then take action to make their life better (perhaps based on natural and necessary for happiness).

I appreciate the sentiments expressed by Kalosyni to keep a focus on nature. While I am still learning about #Epicurus teachings, I find his focus on Nature as the ruler on what is “real”. My understanding of Nature is that everything is in motion and creating (growing/aging still involves creation of new cells). So, I try to find “meaning” in my life by prioritizing on finding new solutions to issues that arise in different facets of our lives (home, work, community, personal self, etc.).

Hello, Friends of Epicurus.

Thanks to Cassius for the forum on-boarding assistance.

My interest in this forum is to continue learning more about the teachings of Epicurus. I am interested in understanding the Ethics and how to apply them daily. I enjoy the discussions on Lucretius Today podcast every week. I try to listen to them on the weekend, for my Sunday ‘sermon’, and contemplation.

The Physics of Epicurus I am finding is fascinatingly prescient as current Quantum Field Theory & Quantum Gravity theory are providing the scientific revealing from Nature.

I look forward to continuing my education through this forum and the wealth of resources here.

Patrick (Patrikios for my Greek friends)