Posts by frank1syl

Quote from Cassius

I wonder whether it's not more practical to line things up in order of significance in terms of pain and pleasure, and then to deal with them in that order (considering whether they can be changed or not as part of the analysis)?

I would like to hear some examples of what Cassius says above. Let's say the situation is this: Sally has decided to follow the path of Epicureanism, much to the chagrin of her close-knit family of Catholics. She is experiencing a lot of mental anguish over the comments family members make (I'll let ya'll imagine what they are saying to her). Sally says to herself, "I think it would be practical to line things up in order of significance in terms of pain and pleasure and then deal with this situation in order of what I can change entirely, what I might be able to partially change, and what I can't change at all as part of my analysis of pain and pleasure." How would you line things up for Sally?

If I were Sally, perhaps I might make a list of family-related pain and pleasure:

1. Pain of being separated from my family, pleasure of being with my family.

2. Pain of falling into discord with family, pleasure of being in accord with them.

3. Pain of being separated from family, pleasure of finding and making a new "family" with like-minded Epicureans.

For each item on this list there are some aspects of it which are up to me (e.g. staying or leaving, being kind or rude), some aspects which are only partially up to me (e.g. choosing not to argue while family continue to try to argue), and some aspects which are not up to me at all (e.g. my family decides to shun me).

My main interest is practical. If mental pain is greater (impacts us more) than physical pain, then my focus ought to be on things entirely under my control (my free will), and secondarily, things I have some partial control over (chance?), and lastly, should not concern myself with things I can't control (destiny).

There is so much going on in this thread I can scarce take it in. I had never heard the world "nociceptive" but it's a good one to keep in mind.

The idea of things under our control and things not under our control reminds me of something that Epicurus (I believe it was he who said it) about some things come about deterministically, some by chance, and some by our own choice or will. If anyone knows the 'address' of that saying I'd appreciate it.

I understand things coming to us which are outside our control, and our having control of what we choose and the direction of our will, but can't think of any example of things coming by chance, unless he's referring to "the swerve".

The reason I had asked the question about the written source of the Epicurean belief that mental pain is worse or longer lasting than physical pain is that I was thinking about how this has a connection to the Stoic principle that "some things are in our power while others are not". The Stoics believe that the things in our power are the things that come from us (our attitudes, beliefs, judgments, desires, aversions, intentions, motives, will to act). In other words, the things in our power are mental abilities and capacities. I believe this is true, although I'm not a Stoic. I believe that Epicureanism has it right when it says that mental pain is worse than physical pain. But, taking my cue from the Stoics, the way to lessen mental pain is to realize that this is an area in which we have considerable power, and to focus on our mental capacities and abilities, rather than external events or circumstances, is the best way to approach mental pain. This is often the opposite of how we try to lessen mental pain, which is to try to change our circumstances -- go on a cruise, buy a new car, redecorate our homes, take a pill, increase our aim for what is neither natural nor necessary, etc.

Hello Cassius,

My name is Frank and I live in Los Angeles. I have been interested in philosophy for some time. Most recently I was studying Stoicism. I was reading the letters of Seneca and noticed that he often quoted Epicureans, even though he was a Stoic, and that led me to explore Epicureanism. I have listened to all of the Lucretius Today podcasts on De Witt's book, "Epicurus and His Philosophy". All of Epicureanism interests me, though I admit to having the least interest in Epicurus's beliefs about the gods.

Frank

I would like to find quotes from Epicurus or other Epicureans which state that mental pleasure and pains are greater or last longer than physical pleasures and pains. Thanks!