Posts by Pacatus

Yes. That's helpful. And not letting emotions become a hindrance also harks back to your earlier comments about keeping the day-to-day politics in perspective and embracing a worldview that makes the day-to-day politics "more livable." One can surely avoid becoming mired in what I call the "soap opera" without getting lost in some blank-mind "nirvana" of numbness. The sources I am weeding out are the ones that include too much toward soap-operatic stuff (where I got caught) -- as opposed to information and analysis, and reasoned opinion, which I can get from better sources.

To live is to feel -- both sensation and emotion.

First of all: thanks to all for your generous responses. I plan to take the time to read them all carefully (and more than once, including the links that Don provided) -- they deserve no less. My own responses will likely be patchwork, as I go.

I want to say that trading is not, in itself, stressful to me -- but an enjoyable activity. I am not investing to build wealth, but merely to augment our current income a bit (which does have a secondary effect of some capital preservation). To that end, I have found a niche as a "swing trader," which works for me. We are satisfied with our fairly frugal, simple lifestyle. Although we occasionally feast, my wife (perhaps showing her inner Epicurus) often quotes to me: "Enough is a feast."

With that said, I realize that I have neglected a hedonic calculus when it comes to balancing our private life and social concerns (as Godfrey reminds me). I have also been neglecting practices that I already have (such as various forms of meditation). The result is that my life has become out of balance. I need to be more diligent. Also, I hope to incorporate some of the fine suggestions you guys have offered -- like building in more "Walden time" (thanks, Joshua; Thoreau, who was also an ardent abolitionist and wrote about civil disobedience, is a good example of someone who sustained that kind of balance -- but I would do well to revisit On Walden Pond).

I need to screen my news intake: what is helpful, what is not (hedonic calculus again) -- and start to weed out a bunch of it. The same for what I can and cannot reasonably contribute regarding social concerns -- without letting "the world's traumas" weigh me down. To monitor the kind of balance that I think Principal Doctrine 5 might describe.

And I need to remember that life is transient (thanks Cassius): "Memento mori" -- which Don pointed out to me is not reserved to the Stoics ("Epicureans remember death to remind us to pay heed to the sweetness of life in the here and now")

Again, thanks to all.

Because I self-manage a chunk of our retirement funds (trading stocks, mostly), I feel that I have to keep up with the news – not just market/financial news, but geopolitics and local politics. Therefore, I spend a good deal of my daytime hours perusing multiple news sources.

As I do so, I find that I am increasingly plagued by anxiety, dread and even rage (my reaction always to bullying of any stripe) at what I see happening – both in my own country and the world. [I will not identify specific social/political groups and activities, as I do not think that would be appropriate here.]

I do not believe I can “hide” in an Epicurean Garden (not that I think that was what Epicurus advocated – even with his recommendation to, insofar as possible, live an obscure life). Even as I live a quasi-reclusive lifestyle, I am aware that what happens in the larger world can directly impact our lives. (And I am, in consultation with my wife, diverting some resources to what I consider just causes.)

I recall that Cassius (Amicus) has spoken to this kind of thing before: e.g., in discussing the other Epicurean Cassius who participated robustly in Roman politics.

I am just asking for some counsel from the wise people here on how to maintain some ataraxia as I confront the burgeoning tumult. Thanks to any and all in advance. (And apologies if this is not appropriate.)

Pacatus

I have been married twice. The first was based on manipulation and deceit -- which, because of whatever blindness on my part (maybe unexamined passion), it took me years and years to recognize. That realization was deeply painful and disturbing: I sought counseling/therapy; and eventually ended the marriage (which action was met with great acrimony and the loss of not a few "friends" -- there were times when I could not rationally function).

My second marriage started with deep and growing friendship: we were friends -- and eventually best friends -- before any romantic intimacy. Our marriage has lasted 27 years, and now we grow old together, still as best friends.

I'm not holding that up as a model over the single life. We are all different. There are many socially-prominent and culturally-promulgated rules and notions that simply do not fit who I am. All I am trying to say is that -- even for an introvert like me -- Epicurus was, to my mind, right about friendship.

Thanks for that. I recently bought this book (which I am still reading), and have found it helpful.

I haven't been here for awhile, and just finished reading through this thread. Three comments:

First, I want to thank Godfrey and Don for pointing out that "natural and necessary" etc. refer to desires, not pleasures. I made that error on my personal outline, and will now correct.

Second, I do not find a sharp distinction between kinetic and katastemic pleasure to be personally helpful; I tend to think of them as complementary, perhaps shading into one another. With that in mind (as I play more with Latin than Greek), I tend to use amoenitas -- rather than the traditional voluptas -- to render hedone. Amoenitas can mean both pleasure/pleasureableness and pleasantness. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/amoenitas (Though I sometimes use voluptas as well.)

A phrase that I use for my own contemplation is "In amoenitate et otio manere" -- To abide in pleasantness/pleasure and ease.

Third, I think this statement by Cassius is critically important: "On an individual level it is essential that we know our own selves and identify what types of pleasure are most valuable to our own natures." And I tend by nature to be more of an introvert.

Quote from Scott

the ravages of idealist perspectives.

I was heavily conditioned ("Pavloved") in such self-ravaging perspectives growing up, and they were reinforced over and over -- by family, culture, religion -- throughout my adulthood. [I sometimes think that such conditioning is like a years'-long slow hypnosis, with deeply embedded, subconscious, post-hypnotic triggers.] It took a long time -- and some wise counsel -- to begin to overcome them. I still get caught up sometimes.

Thanks for this!

From a poem I wrote a couple of years back, entitled “Democritus Ridens.” (The quotes I posted above were the epigraph for the poem.)

He taught the world is round, fashioned of atoms whirling

in space -- that cheerfulness is a flourishing fountain

of health, a natural spring to cure our fevered fears.

Plato hated him: too much mirth, too little divine.

Epicurus, with liberating swerve, welcomed him

-- and all us commoners -- into his pleasant garden.

Now this amiable sage lampoons my gravity,

pretentious habits of self-baiting guilt and despair,

glancing askance in amusement from his portrait perch --

with an anachronistic plume-feather in his cap.

My plea, on this day weighing down like an iron sigh:

“O Philosophus Ridens, enlighten me to laugh!”

~ ~ ~

Coda:

Let us offer to those who suffer daily travail

at least the respite of cheerfulness: a festive inn,

however rustic, along the wearying long road—

_______________________________

“Plume feather”: reference to a reproduction I have of a painting by Jacob Duck (c. 1600-1667), titled “Laughing Democritus Seated Next To A Terrestrial Globe”

"A book of verses underneath the bough,
a jug of wine, a loaf of bread--and thou
beside me singing in the wilderness--

Oh, wilderness were paradise enow!"

This was a treasured statement of our philosophy when my wife and I lived a more simple life (for 15 years) in what I called our "widly garden'": growing vegetables in the kitchen garden, cutting and splitting wood for winter, planting fruit trees, gathering blackberries and wild cherries -- and my wife's homemade wine. Doesn't seem pessimistic at all to me.

But, re the Khayyam quote, I always thought Epicurus might have quipped: "Why are you in a wilderness? Are their no civilized gardens around?"

Quote from Don

I wonder if this is an echo of Democritus.

Philosophus Ridens: the Laughing Philosopher.

"Best is for a person to live a cheerful life as little distressed as possible."

"A life without festivity is a long road without an inn."

--Democritus

And among some prominent contemporary Christian groups, it is not just ancient history (if they have their way).

Welcome.

I am far too much a natural introvert (which I embrace, after years of living a -- for me -- deeply stressful extroverted life, especially my work-life: work that I was good at, but which took a toll in both physical health and any mental serenity) to "run" an Epicurean anything. Or enjoy more than a brief visit to even "the sweetest kind" of bed and breakfast. But I can see that it could be both a noble and a pleasurable venture.

(And I'm w Cassius on the nudist colony!).

I recently acquired a chain bracelet engraved with the words "Memento Mori." I know this is a phrase generally adopted by and associated with the Stoics. But, for me, it is a simple reminder to enjoy the simple pleasures and enjoyments -- and to choose happiness -- now; especially when I am on the edge of succumbing to stress, anxiety, anger, etc. -- which I have long been prone to do (along with getting caught in loops of endless overthinking). I pair "memento mori" with "laetus nunc es": be happy now.

"The sweetest kind of life"!!!

Quote from Cassius

I'd to imagine him dancing happily and joyfully in the garden.

I think sometimes we might get caught up in the notion of philosophy involving only mental exercise: study and discussion, thoughts on how to apply a hedonic calculus (or a "virtue calculus" for the Stoics), mind-focused meditation practices (and practices to "condition the mind," as Nate says), etc. The physical comes up more in terms of food and drink, sometimes sex, maybe taking a walk in nature.

But physical exercise can be free (unconditioned) in practice -- and as a practice. Socrates thought that spontaneous dance was the best exercise. As a youth, I did wild, free-form dancing after discovering Zorba the Greek. Later, in middle age, I practiced Tai Chi (very form oriented as a moving meditation). Then I discovered Tandava Yoga, which is like s free-form Qigong (no postures/asanas or prescribed movements) -- and which can be done in a very light way, like Tai Chi -- in which you breathe and allow your body to move as it wishes (that, in itself, is a kind of discipline). I find that I enjoy that very much (as well as, still, the occasional spontaneous dancing).

As Alan Watts once said: "The point is sometimes to go out of your mind -- so you can come to your senses" (rough quote from memory). I have also discovered Laughter Yoga (without the need for jokes, or funny thoughts or gestures).

My problem is a tendency to get lost in my head. Pleasurable, non-directed physical practices are helpful -- once I remember to engage them.

Thanks so much!

As I contemplate it (not much, but sometimes) in my elder years now, I find that I am not afraid of death either. {Emphasis on that word "find" -- it doesn't really feel like a decision: I just find myself in agreement with Epicurus; but maybe I have internalized his teaching on the subject as just plainly making sense.}

______________________

EDIT: But I just recalled some lines I wrote a few years ago --

How tragic for the the single flame to fear
annihilation in the larger fire,

or waterdrop to be afraid to fall
again into the vastness of the sea.

______________________

Or maybe just "nothing, nothing, nothing -- nothing at all..." (With apologies to Archibald MacLeish, "The End of the World".) And thus nothing to fear ...

Welcome.

I recall that Haris Dimitriadis wrote in his book about neurotransmitters and chemical responses underlying pleasure/happiness. Here is a visual that I found along the way: