Posts by Bryan

Excellent list. Understanding how we come to our conclusions is necessary in order to have certainty about them.

“οὑχὶ καὶ [διαφέρει] τοῦ φανεροῦ Tάφανὲς; καὶ παρακρούειν ἡμᾶς Ἔχουσι σθεναρῶς, ἐπειδὴ τὰ παρ' ἡμῖν ζῷα [παραφυλάττοντες] εἶναι φθαρτὰ, τοὺς θεοὺς ἀφθάρτους ὑπάρχειν λέγομεν; Kαὶ πάντων γενητῶν καὶ φθρτῶν ὄντων, τὰς τῶν ὀλων ἀρχὰς ἀγενήτους εἶναι καὶ ἀφθάρτους [ἀξιοῦμεν]; Φιλοδήμου Περὶ Cημείων XX.20-30

Isn’t the invisible [different] from the visible? Can’t they strongly slap us aside, because [while observing] that the living things around us are destructible, we say that the gods are indestructible? And although all things are created and destructible, [we think] that the elements of all things are uncreated and indestructible?”

Philodemus quoting Bromius (Cf. De Lacy “On Methods of Inference” pg. 69-70)

Hello Elli, yes that is right on topic, very amusing, and new to me! Thank you.

"Observation is everything" is the position of a type of skeptic, who does not want to form a workable and understandable mental model of how nature works. We are far closer to "everything we think we base on observation, and we infer by analogy from this empirical basis in order to conceive that which cannot be observed."

I very much agree. This gives the translation just a little bit of added interpretation, but is certainly more natural.

"Τhis very thing is pleasure:

Escaping from pain-

because It is not possible for pleasure to be placed anywhere

when neither What is painful nor What is distressing is any longer making way for it."

-Metródoros

"The limit in the amount of pleasures

is the Removal of all pain.

Whenever there is Pleasure,

then for that time that it is present,

there is no Pain or Sadness

or any Mixture of both."

Metródoros makes the same point from a different angle:

"Τhis very thing is the good:

Escaping from the bad-

because It is not possible for the Good to be placed anywhere

when neither What is painful nor What is distressing is any longer making way for it."

Τοῦτο αὐτὸ τὸ ἀγαθόν ἐστι:

τὸ φυγεῖν τὸ κακόν-

ἔνθα γὰρ τεθήσεται Tἀγαθόν οὐκ Ἔστιν

ὅταν μηθὲν ἔτι ὑπεξίῃ μήτε Ἀλγεινὸν μήτε Λυπηρόν"

–preserved by Plutarch at 1091 A-B in his diatribe "Ότι ουδέ ήδεως ζην έστιν κατ' Επίκουρον"

"What is complete and independent neither itself has troubles nor hands any over to another, therefore it is not wrapped up in tempers or favors- because everything of that sort exists in what is imperfect."

Regarding weakness/imperfection, Philodemus directly connects human weakness with our need for friendship. While discussing the importance of mutual friendship (ἡ συμφυλία) he says that generosity is necessary:

"...ἀμέλει δὲ καὶ ἐφ' ἡμῶν τῶν ἀσθενῶν

καὶ προσδεομένων πρὸς τὰ χρειώδη τῆς φιλίας"

"...particularly for us who are imperfect/weak and

and in need also of the necessary things that come from friendship"

De Dis (Book 3), PHerc 26.fr.87 second paragraph, beginning half way through line 5 (http://163.1.169.40/gsdl/collect/P….a.01.hires.jpg)

Thank you, Elli, for your kind greeting! I have benefited greatly from your wise comments in the past, and I am happy to be here and to begin doing so again.

Cassius this is a very nice website! Brilliant content, easy to navigate, and it is wonderful to see the organization that you have achieved here so effectively on the message boards.

Rearranging and organizing Diogenes' comments is a good idea. The translation you have is excellent and follows my own preference for simplicity where it is possible.

Here are some personal notes I have on the Principle Doctrines along with some new translations.