Posts by Don

Quote from Cassius

Sedley's articles and in the appendices to the DeLacy book "On Methods of Inference"

Cassius : Are those all linked somewhere on the forum site here?

Quote from Bryan

Godfrey, absolutely! In a way this is my preparation for revisiting the rather difficult On Signs.

That text has been on my list for too long. Maybe your revisitation will spur me to try digging into it.

And the CC licensing is not revocable, per the CC site.

(It's a similar license under which I released the Menoikeus commentary. Mine has: This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License. To view a copy of this license, visit http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/ )

They appear to have changed the license under which it's published:

Creative Commons:

Creative Common License - CC Creative Common License - BY Creative Common License - NC Creative Common License - ND

This content is Open Access and distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution licence CC-BY-NC-ND 4.0 https://creativecommons.org/creativelicenses

Open access, baby!! Woohoo!

Quote from Bryan

Don, regarding ἡ ἐπιμαρτύρησις et al., I know we have -ησις as a general suffix to form abstract nouns. But I feel that ἡ ῥῆσις "saying" "manner of speaking" must also part of the construction. I cannot quite tell right now if this is obviously there or if I am forcing it.

I could see that, but then ῥῆσις has the -σις abstract suffix. I think the -σις is just doing the work of "nouning" (to coin a clunky word) the μᾰρτῠρέω.

ῥῆσις: Etymology From stem ῥη- of εἴρω (eírō, “to say”) +‎ -σις (-sis, abstract noun suffix).

Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, μαρτυ^ρ-έω

Derived terms:
ἀντιμᾰρτῠρέω (antimarturéō)
ἀπομᾰρτῠρέω (apomarturéō)
δῐᾰμᾰρτῠρέω (diamarturéō)
εἰσμᾰρτῠρέω (eismarturéō)
ἐκμᾰρτῠρέω (ekmarturéō)
ἐπιμᾰρτῠρέω (epimarturéō)
κᾰτᾰμᾰρτῠρέω (katamarturéō)
προσμᾰρτῠρέω (prosmarturéō)
σῠμμᾰρτῠρέω (summarturéō)
ὑπομᾰρτῠρέω (hupomarturéō)
ψευδομᾰρτῠρέω (pseudomarturéō)

I think Philonides was the court advisor I was trying to think of:

Philonides of Laodicea - Wikipedia

And here's a paper my Dr. Fish:

The Closing Columns of Philodemus’ ON THE GOOD KING ACCORDING TO HOMER, PHERC. 1507 COLS. 95-98 (= COLS. 40-43 DORANDI)

This article presents a reedition of the nal columns of Philodemus’ On the Good King According to Homer (columns 95-98 = cols. 40-43 Dorandi). In the nal…

www.academia.edu

And yes I fully realize I'm not responding to Peter Konstans 's specific questions yet. Patience

Here's McConnell's paper on Academia.edu

Epicureans on kingship

Diogenes Laertius lists in his catalogue of Epicurus' works (10.28) a treatise On Kingship, which is unfortunately no longer extant. Owing to the…

www.academia.edu

Thanks, Bryan.

No great insights here from me tonight, but just linguistic trivia:

ἰδιοτήτος idiotetos > which is related to where English gets the word "idiot" meant in Ancient Greek more like - as Bryan notes from Sedley - individuality or being apart from the masses, a private person, one not engaged in public affairs. One who wasn't engaged in public affairs was an ἰδιώτης idiotes. It could also be used patronizingly for "ignorant person," from idios "one's own"

ἐπιμαρτυρήσεων and the rest > epi-martyreseon > note the root "martyr" in the Greek. That's the same word used for the Christians killed "for their faith" (debatable, but I'll let it slide). They were "witnesses" to their religion, they showed others how their religion made them act - even unto death. So, that idea of providing evidence is intrinsic to the Greek words with the root -martyr-, then you add on the prefixes and change the meaning.

Language is fun

Quote from Peter Konstans

or made any sort of exhortation about how people should best govern themselves

They did have thoughts on how those who govern should act.

There's a missing book of Epicurus titled Of Kingship.

Philodemus wrote On The Good King According to Homer.

There were Epicurean advisors to kings.

It seems to me they had specific ideas on how to govern but they would rather advise rulers than rule themselves.

PS. On a more serious note, I literally just finished listening to the entire episode. I am humbled and honored by Joshua 's use of my translation and commentary, and I'm grateful that it is being useful. I'm still hoping to record a study session series on the letter before the end of the year. 🤞

LOL! I didn't realize I would be featured in this episode. Thanks for using my Menoikeus! And I like salmon, too, just for the record.

https://www.angio.net/pi/bigpi.cgi

Epicurus (Ἐπίκουρος Epikouros): 341–270 BC

The string 341270 occurs at position 1,860,579 counting from the first digit after the decimal point. The 3. is not counted.
The string and surrounding digits 08124239256923940821 341270 10920235469290643125

Quote from Cassius

I need to find the proper cite for this one, which needs addition here in this thread.

11. The stable condition of well-being in the body and the sure hope of its continuance holds the fullest and surest joy for those who can rightly calculate it.

Where does your "11" come from? This sounds like just an alternative translation of Fragment 68. To those who are able to reason it out, the highest and surest joy is found in the stable health of the body and a firm confidence in keeping it.

τὸ γὰρ εὐσταθὲς σαρκὸς κατάστημα καὶ τὸ περὶ ταύτης πιστὸν ἔλπισμα τὴν ἀκροτάτην χαρὰν καὶ βεβαιοτάτην ἔχει τοῖς ἐπιλογίζεσθαι δυναμένοις.

From Attalus:

[ U68 ]

Plutarch, That Epicurus actually makes a pleasant life impossible, 4, p. 1089D: It is this, I believe, that has driven them, seeing for themselves the absurdities to which they were reduced, to take refuge in the "painlessness" and the "stable condition of the flesh," supposing that the pleasurable life is found in thinking of this state as about to occur in people or as being achieved; for the "stable and settled condition of the flesh," and the "trustworthy expectation" of this condition contain, they say, the highest and the most assured delight for men who are able to reflect. Now to begin with, observe their conduct here, how they keep decanting this "pleasure" or "painlessness" or "stable condition" of theirs back and forth, from body to mind and then once more from mind to body.

Aulus Gellius, Attic Nights, IX.5.2: Epicurus makes pleasure the highest good but defines it as sarkos eustathes katastema, or "a well-balanced condition of the body."

I'm betting all "rules" were fluid back then.

Looking online at an ancient Great grammar book:

Quote from Introduction to Attic Greek

Nu is often assimilated to the following consonant in compounds or in phrases pronounced as a unit: it is assimilated to the following consonant before Λ, Μ, Ρ, Σ, labialzed to M before the labial plosives (Β, Π, Φ), and converted to velar nasal Γ before the velar plosives (Κ, Γ, Χ)

Quote from Bryan

Quote from Bryan

Epicurus, On Nature 28.10.1a (Sedley reconstruction) "πραγματικῶν θεωρημάτων ἐνδίξει καὶ τὴν μερίληψιν... τῆς δόξης... περὶ ταύτης τε τῆς εἰς τοῦτο ἐμβαλλούσης ὑπολήψεως. ὄντων δ' οὖν τοιούτων οἶον... τούτων κατὰ τὴν αἵρεσιν πραττόντων... τῆς ἐπαγωγῆς γιγνέσθω τῆς πραγματικῆς..."

τὴν μερίληψιν (tēn merílēpsin): Part-taking, Partiality, Fragmentation

28.10.1a is SO fragmentary! Your smooth transcription somewhat obscures that. There is a LOT of missing papyrus in that column.

It also looks like Sedley has περ̣[ίληψ]ιμ where you have μερίληψιν (Sedley pi π.., your mu μ..).

Here's the engraving of that column from Papyri.info!

Oh my! It looks even worse when you see the papyrus itself. Getting more than a few words strung together at a time from that seems highly problematic.