Posts by Don

If you look at the end of the Arundel manuscript of Diogenes Laertius, you don't see any numbers... Just the text

http://www.bl.uk/manuscripts/Vi…l_ms_531_fs001r

I don't know when the traditional numbering started.

Any way you can use one of the text versions posted to Internet Archive? It would probably require some editing but might include more options?

I was considering doing an interlinear of the Principal Doctrines or the Letter to Menoikeus until I remembered the Epicurus Wiki did a good job on both: http://wiki.epicurism.info/Main_Page/ I'll keep working on my in-depth analysis of the Letter and possibly integrate some interlinear text there.

I am so excited too see how this project shakes out! I see some applications for myself! Thanks for being the trailblazer, Joshua !!

Quote from JJElbert

For my purposes I want it in print, so the online version will likely have to be a PDF.

PDF is a great choice. Easily viewable online and also printable.

The only caveat I'd provide is that an interlinear can still only give one translation for a word. In today's Lucretius Today conversation (yet to be posted) I brought up the multiple connotations of pedetemptim. Having access to that level of interpretation would be very helpful. I'm thinking specifically of Jonathan Star's edition of the Tao Te Ching: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/292570/t…-jonathan-star/

Well, this makes me think I should get back to my in depth commentary and translation of the Letter to Menoikeus. That's a snap compared to 6 books of De Rerum Natura.

This is the only one I found from a quick search:

https://nodictionaries.com/lucretius/de-rerum-natura-1/1-49

THAT is an ambitious undertaking, but I can think of no one who is better suited to tackle the poetic aspect of Lucretius than you.

Have you verified there's not an interlinear out there?

I will say I have an interlinear Beowulf that I enjoy perusing from time to time.

Quote from JJElbert

After all, Vatican Sayings no. 52 doesn't say that friendship dances around the block, or down to the social club and back; "Friendship dances around the world bidding us all to awaken to the recognition of happiness."

Hey, how do I give two thumbs up?

PS There we go!

The closest Epicurus ever gets to an "absolute" is his basis for just actions in society: to neither harm nor be harmed. But this isn't an absolute decree from some higher supernatural authority. It's simply his proposed "natural" baseline agreement that a community needs to function.

Quote from Dubitator314

an Epicurean ethical action?

Another quick thought... I would be careful about that phrasing. If you're equating an "ethical action" with a "virtuous action", remember that virtue in Epicureanism is instrumental to pleasure and not an end in itself. Why do we practice virtuous acts? Because they bring us pleasure.

Okay, now I'll step back and let others chime in.

Quote from Dubitator314

For example, if a person gets pleasure from giving to a battered woman's shelter, would that be an an Epicurean ethical action?

Yep (from my perspective)

For me, it goes back to Epicurus's assertion in his Principle Doctrine 5:

"It is not possible to live a pleasurable life without the traits of wisdom, morality, and justice; and it is impossible to live with wisdom, morality, and justice without living pleasurably. When one of these is lacking, it is impossible to live a pleasurable life. It is not possible to live a pleasurable life without the traits of wisdom, morality, and justice; and it is impossible to live with wisdom, morality, and justice without living pleasurably. When one of these is lacking, it is impossible to live a pleasurable life. "

It's also practical. If I'm "altruistic" (or just a nice person) that makes it more likely or at least probable that I will be seen favorably by others. If I need a favor or assistance in the future, I'll be more likely to receive it if people around me see me that way. That makes for the possibility of more pleasure for me in the future.

I'll stop there for now. I'm sure others will have thoughts too.

Looking for info and found this:

https://www.persee.fr/doc/dhs_0070-6760_2003_num_35_1_2587

And I believe Adams is referencing Jean-François de La Harpe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Fran…rpe?wprov=sfla1

There are numerous "peace and safety" references in EaHP, but this will do to illustrate my point. Citation 117 simply points to Lucian's Alexander the Oracle-monger, 25:44-46. 118 just points to I Thessalonians 5:3. That's it. And I believe most of not all of the other "peace and safety" point to the same Bible verse.

Quote

The followers of Epicurus after his death, though diligent cultivators of peace and safety, continued to display the same belligerency as their founder. According to Lucian it was chiefly the Epicureans who summoned up courage to defy Alexander the False Prophet, and the only man to accuse him to his face on a specific charge was an Epicurean,who almost paid for his daring by his life.117 Upward of a century before the date of this alleged occurrence it was the Epicureans in Thessalonica who by their derision aroused the indignation of St. Paul, then prophesying the second coming of Christ. In his retort he denied them the honor of mention by name but identified them adequately by those catchwords of their creed, "Peace and Safety."118 It may be added that the Epicureans, as usual, were in the right; the prophecy was not fulfilled. (NWD, EahP, p 285)

Just one example from Epicurus and His Philosophy.

FYI https://www.bibleref.com/1-Thessalonian…onians-5-3.html

This is a better option: https://www.bibleref.com/1-Thessalonian…onians-5-3.html

Quote from Cassius

A similar instance is DeWitt's "sound mind in a sound body" which I think is more likely to be accurate and representative, but which might be an embellishment to imply that it was a formulation that the Epicureans used. It's a pretty obvious concept and the more obvious something is the less likely I think the Epicureans would have considered it something unique to them.

I'll give Dewitt that the Epicureans had that concept: health of the body and the serenity of the soul/mind/psychē (Letter to Menoikeus).

Not that I ever remember seeing. There is no mention of Epicureans in Thessalonians either only in Acts. And those Epicureans just say WTF about Paul's teaching.

I've personally chalked this one up to Dewitt's penchant for writing embellished historical fiction.

PS: I have no problem with DeWitt's historical fiction, but I find that in checking the citations in Epicurus and His Philosophy that he'll sometimes take a tiny detail or one word and extrapolate a whole story from that. This might be one of those instances unless someone knows where there is mention of Peace and Safety as a greeting or motto in the Epicurean texts. I'll happily give a mea culpa.

Quote from Cassius

What are you guys thinking about this way of asking the question. I think I see your answer, but can this be answered clearly yes or no?

"Does Epicurus' answer allow for the possibility of the Sun being larger than the earth?"

I think there are multiple possible responses that answer that question. But, if that's the case, I guess the answer to that specific question is yes.

Quote from Nate

It would be uncharacteristic and inconsistent of Epicurus to support this, especially when he posits the explicit existence of exoplanets.

All great points, Eikadistes , but I do want to fine tune your statement quoted here.

What Epicurus posited was an "infinite number of cosmoi (cosmoses?):"

τὴν ἀπειρίαν τῶν κόσμων.

...tēn apeiran tōn cosmon.

We live in a cosmos composed of the Earth at the center with the sun and moon and stars encircling us.

Other cosmoses with their own sun, moon and stars exist according to his theory, but they're their own world-system. They don't inhabit our world-system or cosmos. And the gods live in between these cosmoi in the metacosmia/intermundia. And all those cosmoi are part of the All, Το Παν, To Pan, the Universe.

Sorry to be pedantic, but I don't want to equate our knowledge of exoplanets in our cosmos, as it were, with what Epicurus would have understood that to mean.