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I've always thought a clip of just Epicurus's eyes from one of the famous portraits or busts sandwiched between
SFO
(eyes)
TSE
would make an interesting Tshirt design with small print of Sic fac omnia tamquam spectet Epicurus on top and Do all things as if Epicurus were watching one the bottom
Then EpicurueanFriends.com on the back?
"Pleasure is not a four letter word"
Then it must be a three letter word!
Yes? Yes!
LOL "Take your pleasure seriously" is right up there with "Pleasure is not a four letter word" for my never-to-be-written book 
You don’t have to tell your body “move this foot, then move that foot” - you just tell it “start walking” and after a step or two it’s going on autopilot.
Which is one reason why we trip maybe. Our brains are like "Woah! That hole wasn't in the walking plan! Oops!"
I think this is right on point with this discussion. And it doesn't negate Epicurus's basic premise that we have to rely on our senses. We have no other direct connection with the physical world than our senses and pleasure/pain. Our minds will "play tricks on us" but the "input" is coming from real, physical, material phenomena.
I hesitated to post this then realized it speaks directly to the "reliability" of the senses and what we *think* we perceive. There is still a material physical reality with which our senses interact, but we only really perceive what our brains (in many ways) *expect* us to perceive. Just like the brain research of Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett and others show, our brains are prediction machines. Our sense may take in all kinds of sense data, but most of it never gets processed. It just gets matched up to previous experiences and if it matches or matches close enough, our minds move on to the next split second.
This is fascinating stuff.
To be honest, all the new meetings remind me (and just me, this is VERY subjective) like church attendance at Bible Study and Youth Group and Fellowship Meeting and Wednesday Service... And if you don't or can't attend, you're not a good church member.
Again, this is just me and I KNOW that was never the intention of scheduling all these. It was to increase opportunities for attendees. I just felt obligated to throw this into the mix.
PS. While I suppose I can see the humor in this initial post (Thanks, Kalosyni ), I feel I should be frank in sharing I did not intend it that way. I *do* hope people will see the various virtual opportunities *as* opportunities to interact with others curious about Epicurus's philosophy. However, I can see (speaking from my perspective) how some might see the plethora of "meetings" as overwhelming or off-putting. "Do I have to attend *all* of these?" asks the curious newcomer? No, of course not! But I would just caution how they may be perceived. Two meetings a week + once a month? That can add up.
If anyone feels I'm way off-base, please feel free to let me know.
I wouldn't advocate for something pre-recorded. People can watch/listen on their own for those.
The 20th it seems to me was/is about openness, community, welcoming, learning, and joyful celebration.
I'd keep those keywords in mind for this discussion in how to structure the 20th.
Just a thought: With all the new meetings, I'd suggest trying to make the 20th "special" and not just *another* online meeting. That date is literally the connection to the Ancient Epicurean community. I don't have any ideas currently on making it special, just raising the point for discussion.
are you trying to paper over misery with a coating of pleasure?
Just out of curiosity - is this what Epicurus was doing in his final days when he was (apparently) cheerful and in high spirits even though he was in tremendous pain? Where is the line drawn for when it's ideal to find pleasure in less than ideal circumstances and when that's a delusion being used to mask the pain?
I get the impression that Godfrey was referring to when we try fooling ourselves. With Epicurus, no doubt that he felt and acknowledged his pain - no getting around that - but he could also experience pleasure in the memory of talking with friends. What he wrote was:
My continual sufferings from strangury and dysentery are so great that nothing could augment them ; but over against them all I set gladness of mind at the remembrance of our past conversations.
The word for "over against them" had the connotation of holding ground against as in the line of battle. So, he was in great pain, but he fought against that - arrayed himself against that - with memories of friendship. He didn't paper over anything, he used his life's philosophy to fight against what would otherwise have been overwhelming and what did in short order actual kill him.
So we have to do both: study the details of the Greek and be sure we get the most accurate understanding of it, and then re-express the same thoughts in understandable English
Which is exactly what I was trying to provide in my letter to Menoikeus to give people a gateway to the original language and to allow them to arrive at a personal, meaningful paraphrase for themselves.
Sounds interesting, but I think I'm going to just stick with the 20th's when I can. That said, I sincerely applaud what you're trying to do in creating a more "regular" online Garden gathering. I'll look forward to hearing how it goes! I would say "Good luck!" but Βραχέα σοφῷ τύχη παρεμπίπτει "Only a little does Chance creep into the sage's life."
This is important to note, and to ask the question as to why this might have happened
My impression was that Stoicism as a research focus is probably more "popular" within academic research whereas Epicurean studies are more niche.
Erlend D MacGillivray | University of Aberdeen - Academia.edu
I tried to find him in the U of Aberdeen directory to no avail. He also seems to have gone down an Epictetus/Stoic track after the initial interest in Epicureanism. Just FYI. That doesn't diminish the utility of his papers and research!
Not sure if you saw this, but here's another later paper by the same author:
Not to belabor this any longer than necessary, but I also found the very end of that saying enjoyable as well:
ἐκ τῆς ὀρθῆς φιλοσοφίας φωνὰς ἀφιέντας.
ek tēs orthēs philosophias phōnas aphientas.
That last word, translated as "recount" had the connotation (see LSJ entry above) of "let loose" or "let fly from oneself." So, I see echoes of the epicurean "triumph-song" noted elsewhere in the texts. Let loose, baby!!
The orthēs is the same ortho- as in orthodox or orthography.
41. At one and the same time we must philosophize, laugh, and manage our household and other business, while never ceasing to proclaim the words of true philosophy.
41. One must laugh and seek wisdom and tend to one's home life and use one's other goods, and always recount the pronouncements of true philosophy. γελᾶν ἅμα δεῖ (one must) καὶ φιλοσοφεῖν (philosophein) καὶ οἰκονομεῖν καὶ τοῖς λοιποῖς οἰκειώμασι χρῆσθαι καὶ μηδαμῇ λήγειν τὰς ἐκ τῆς ὀρθῆς φιλοσοφίας φωνὰς ἀφιέντας.
I wanted to comment on the translation Eoghan Gardiner used initially. Plus, to me this sounds like mindfulness! Do all while philosophizing.
I like to note that several translations put philosophize first when instead the first word in Greek is γελᾶν, the infinitive of γελάω "laugh." So the emphasis is on the laughing first. Syntax not being constrained by word order like English (Joe bit the dog vs The dog but Joe), ancient Greek can choose what to emphasize by word order. The translations should really be something like: "One must laugh and - at the same time - pursue the love wisdom, administer the rest of one's household affairs,..." I really like the coupling of laughing and philosophizing. I wonder if this is an echo of Democritus.
Good post!
Even jobs we've chosen can sometimes overwhelm us. I have Vatican Saying 35 hanging in my office pointing toward my desk to remind me of this. It doesn't mean we can't always look for new opportunities if the chance comes, but ...
VS35 Don't ruin the things you have by wanting what you don't have, but realize that they too are things you once did wish for. οὐ δεῖ λυμαίνεσθαι τὰ παρόντα τῶν ἀπόντων ἐπιθυμίᾳ, ἀλλʼ ἐπιλογίζεσθαι ὅτι καὶ ταῦτα τῶν εὐκταίων ἦν.
I try to remember that going to work is a choice. We always have the choice to not go to work. But would that choice give us pleasure or pain? Most likely, in the end, we wouldn't have enough money if we didn't go to work, so we go. Can we look for a different job? Of course! But that isn't always feasible with health care being job-tied at least in the US. I like the attitude Eoghan Gardiner is putting forward. That coupled with VS35 can hopefully get us through the day.
Well put, Joshua .
I get the impression that the Cyrenaics felt that the only pleasure worth considering was the one you're experiencing *right now.* There's some nuance to that statement, but, by and large, that seems to be their position. In the immortal words of Janis Joplin, "get it while you can!" Epicurus's philosophy was a direct repudiation of the cyrenaic position in that he advocated taking pleasure in past pleasures as well as looking forward to future pleasures and mental pleasure like this was worthwhile. According to the Cyrenaics, physical pleasure experienced here right now is the only worthwhile pleasure, the only pleasure you're sure of. Mental pleasure -pleasure experienced only in the mind as memory or anticipation - doesn't count.
