Posts by Don

Stallings was my first full read through.

LOL! Well, okay... As long as you don't have any strong feelings....

I'm going to have to try to weave daedel into casual conversation this coming week.

PS. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dae…0About%20daedal

Did you want to link to Perseus (Leonard)?

Lucretius, De Rerum Natura, BOOK I, line 1

Quote from Cassius

just updating the thread with the current graphic

That.

FYI

Thomas Young (American revolutionary) - Wikipedia

Quote from Nate

Nature's God: The Heretical Origins of the American Republic by Matthew Stewart. It is a dense read, but very informative, and I recommend it.

Added to my Good Reads "Want to read" list! Thanks!

Quote from Cassius

Right! Supplemental home study is the main thing I was thinking about,

That's what I suspected. Nonetheless, figured I'd go off on homeschooling.

Quote from Cassius

to some extent we do make lots of choices for our children

Fully agree! When it comes to some choices we make, it's best to make it as organic as possible though. Let the children be participants instead of captives. Make the pedagogy experiential and interactive instead of the "sage on the stage."

Can never go wrong to bring up Eikadistes 's masterful compilation of the PDs:

File

KURIAI DOXAI, a Compilation of Translations by Nathan H. Bartman (2021)

This compilation contains 150 years worth of English translations of the "Key Doctrines" of Epicurus.

Eikadistes

May 3, 2024 at 11:14 PM

Quote from Cassius

An Epicurean "home schooling curriculum" for young people (or for any age ) would be highly desirable and ought to be a long term goal

Hmm... I'm gonna have to push back on Cassius's comment a little there. I'm skeptical of homeschooling of any ilk. I'm sure some parents who do homeschooling can do a satisfactory job, but it always struck me as insular and isolating. School is both educational as well as social. I'm not going to sugarcoat the school experience, especially in adolescence it can be hard! But my entire family are products of a public education. We turned out okay (I think).

And Epicurus did rail against the indoctrination of his day, παιδεία. But he also taught in the Garden. No doubt to groups and individuals.

But education doesn't *stop* with formal instruction. Parents do need to be involved with their children. Encourage creativity and curiosity. Foster what brings the children pleasure. Take pleasure in seeing your children experiencing fun.

Parenting is HARD. There are times where it is a pain! But, to me, this is a classic example of experiencing pain for future pleasure. Seeing one's children grow to curious, kind adults is a pleasure.

But to wind back to Cassius, I could see a "Sunday School" curriculum being helpful. Some kind of supplemental home study. But it shouldn't necessarily be imposed on one's children. It should ideally be organic. Get them out into nature. Encourage them to use their senses. Explore! Get them to ask questions. Find evidence-based material answers. Make it fun! Make it pleasurable!

Quote from camotero

. I sort of think some of the teachings of Jesus have been stolen and changed to fit the magical and idealist thinking of religion,

Are you familiar with Thomas Jefferson's Bible editing?

Jefferson Bible - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I personally was not aware of (or had forgotten) Farrington. A number of his books are on Internet Archive:

Internet Archive Search: Benjamin Farrington

I hadn't even had a chance to read the whole paper yet. I found the reference to Pythocles on p45 cited in Sedley's Lucretius and the Transformation of Greek Wisdom. Then found the paper on Academia.edu.

Note the word απορία in the beginning. That's the aporia being mentioned in another thread on the forum. Hmmm... Looks like I'll have to read this whole thing.

This paper by Sedley contains some VERY interesting possible/probable biographical information of Pythocles (especially starting around p.45)...

Epicurus and the mathematicians of Cyzicus

Epicurus and the mathematicians of Cyzicus

www.academia.edu

Mentioned in the podcast:

Ibn al-Haytham - Wikipedia

Maximus Planudes - Wikipedia

Ptolemy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I remember back in high school (early 80s) typing a program onto cassette tapes that was the nascent version of this conversational bot in the form of a therapist. It was fascinating! Although one idiosyncrasy was that if you didn't mention your mother within a certain number of lines, they program said, "I notice you haven't mentioned your mother," taking a decidedly Freudian turn.

I saw one of the comments on the article make a good point. They said that one problem with comparing AI to humans is that humans learn from caregivers, from their environment, from society; while AIs learn from datasets as well as social media. And we're well aware of the biases and pitfalls of social media, the Internet, and datasets.

Another caveat is our old friend, "definitions." How do you define "conscious," "sentient" even "alive."

That's enough for now. Thanks for jumpstarting this.

Thanks!!

Here's the section at Perseus:

Plutarch, Non posse suaviter vivi secundum Epicurum, section 7

For what occasions transcending joy (he saith) is some great impending evil escaped; and in this lies the very nature and essence of good, if a man attain unto it aright, and contain himself when he hath done, and not ramble and prate idly about it.

Quote from Cassius

Epicurus really meant in his warning about walking around uselessly harping on the meaning of good

What is that citation? I've heard it. Just have source amnesia.

I need to read the article for its take, but - for the record - I have no problem with "tranquility." In fact, I'm coming around to the idea that ataraxia and aponia actually refer to something like homeostasis or basically just the sensation that the body and mind are working well and in-tune. One can more easily or readily experience pleasure - of all kinds - when neither the body nor the mind are troubled. And both ataraxia and aponia *are* in fact pleasure just like khara and euphrosyne. Pleasure is, by definition, good. So I think in many places in the texts where the word "good" αγαθόν is used, we can substitute "pleasure." And where ταγαθον tagathon "greatest good" is used by a number of philosophers in ancient Greece to mean "the highest good" (that good to which all other possible goods point to), Epicureans use it to refer to pleasure in the tetrapharmakos (and elsewhere, I believe).

Just checkin' the Greek:

VS32 Honoring a sage is itself a great good to the one who honors. τοῦ σοφοῦ σεβασμὸς ἀγαθὸν μέγα τῷ σεβομένῳ ἐστί.

ἀγαθὸν μέγα= agathon mega "great good"

VS28 Those who grasp after friendship and those who shrink from it are not worthy of approval; on the other hand, it is necessary to risk some pleasure for the pleasures of friendship.

οὔτε τοὺς προχείρους εἰς φιλίαν οὔτε τοὺς ὀκνηροὺς δοκιμαστέον· δεῖ δὲ καὶ παρακινδυνεῦσαι χάριν, χάριν φίλιας.

χάριν φίλιας = kharin philias "joy of friendship"

παρακινδυνεῦσαι = "necessary to risk"

PD27

That which wisdom (sophia) provides with regard to the complete/fulfilled blissful life, by far the best is the gaining of friendship.

Ὧν ἡ σοφία παρασκευάζεται εἰς τὴν τοῦ ὅλου βίου μακαριότητα, πολὺ μέγιστόν ἐστιν ἡ τῆς φιλίας κτῆσις.

ὅλου βίου μακαριότητα= holou biou marariotēta complete, blissful life"

μακαριότητα is a version of the same word in PD1 used to describe the life of the gods.

Menoikeus 130: Καὶ τὴν αὐτάρκειαν δὲ ἀγαθὸν μέγα νομίζομεν,

ἀγαθὸν μέγα = same as VS32 above

Menoikeus 132

"and so the foundation (ἀρχὴ) of all these and the greatest good (τὸ μέγιστον ἀγαθὸν) is φρόνησις."

Τούτων δὲ πάντων ἀρχὴ καὶ τὸ μέγιστον ἀγαθὸν φρόνησις.