Posts by Godfrey

Quote from smoothiekiwi

Well, but the theory that "the world only consists of atoms and void" is false (waves), that the "universe is infinite" (it only expands really fast, but it has a border), that the multitude of atoms is infinite (we've only a few types of quarks and bosons), etc..... so I wouldn't call EP coherent by today's standards. Sadly

Ancient atomic theory is the basis for modern physics. The fact that the theory has evolved over 2300 years doesn't, for me, discredit the original theory, particularly since the original theory was conceived without the benefit of modern technology.

I'm not aware of the universe having a border, only that there is a limit to what we can perceive due to the speed of light. But maybe Martin has more to add to that.

According to Epicurus the multitude of atoms is infinite but the types of atoms are uncountable but not unlimited. So I assume what you're referring to is the "uncountable" types of atoms, not the overall quantity of atoms.

Atomic theory, to my understanding, is validated as the ancient theory of physics that is most in line with our current understanding of the universe.

The book God and the Atom by Victor Stenger provides a history of the the development of atomic theory from Democritus to fairly recently. There are many others, this one in particular is not Epicurean but favorable to Epicurean theory.

It comes to mind that a good basic "catchphrase", rather than pleasure or atomism, is simply "Physics, Canonic, Ethics".

This emphasizes the complete worldview in a synoptic way. If someone you are trying to introduce to the philosophy then has specific questions, they can be clearly related back to the big picture.

As I recall, the Stoics use "Physics, Logic, Ethics" as their basic structure. And for me that's where Stoicism fell apart: the moderns try to sidestep the physics and its emphasis on logos, the logic was baffling, and therefore the ethics had no grounding. On the contrary, the strength of EP is that it holds together as a complete worldview and it seems most effective to present it in this way.

I discovered Epicurus while reading Cicero in a hammock in my garden.... There's something quite nice about reading that way. Mostly being in nature, but the repose aids significantly.

In retrospect, being relaxed in nature may have heightened the BS meter of my faculties. I'd been reading Eastern and Stoic philosophy there over a period of months but somehow they didn't "click". Reading Epicurus in that environment somehow made perfect sense of the things that I'd been struggling with.

But I digress. I don't have a book and artifact collection, but I do have a garden and a hammock.

I'm going to skip Tuesday and attend Thursday... if I do both my wife will think I've joined a cult

Also of interest to the "arrogance" of Epicurus is a paper regarding Leucippus that I've attached here:

Post

RE: Epicurus On The Issue of Materiality - Ultimate Particles

Attached are two brief papers on the origins of ancient atomism, discussing how it was a response to Parmenides' theory of Being.

Godfrey

January 13, 2022 at 4:53 PM

Attached are two brief papers on the origins of ancient atomism, discussing how it was a response to Parmenides' theory of Being.

Thanks for the links Cassius. I'm intrigued by these. It just depends on time costs v benefits as to whether I'll dig deeper into them. They're certainly worth knowing about in general, so I'll watch some videos and see how they look.

How would one go about learning to use these? Start with Markup and then move on to Obsidian and/or Logseq? Or is Markup a part of Obsidian and Logseq so that you can just pick one of the two of them to learn and still have the functionality of Markup?

Are these set up for non-techie users or is some knowledge of programming required? The last programming I did was with punch cards

Is Markdown a program similar to Obsidian and Logseq, or is it the basis of these? What type of learning curve is there to these? The last thing I want to do is get bogged down in learning new software, but if they're easy to learn and use then I might be interested. But right now I confess that I'm clueless about this

I've done both the focused sitting and the active version and find both of them relaxing and centering. Most often these days as I'm in the midst of some activity I'll notice tension somewhere in my body, typically my shoulders or lower back, then consciously relax the tension and take a few conscious breaths as I continue to relax the tension.

Ahhhhhh.... With a bit of practice it's very effective.

Good point. What is Markdown?

Are those beignets?

@smoothiekiwi in many ways it's an advantage being exposed to Epicurus at a young age. How you choose to continue your education, or how you choose a job, or a partner, or where to live, or so many other things... these are big picture "choices and avoidances" that will enable you to bring more pleasure into your life for decades to come. As you come to understand the philosophy on a deeper level you will find that following your canonic faculties will be a great aid in making such decisions, as well as the small day to day choices and avoidances that lead to a pleasant life.

Epicurus studied natural philosophy and the art of life; many current subjects that you might study in school have evolved from these and you may find one or more of them pleasurable and enlightening, even worth pursuing further.

Quote

VS27. Whereas other pursuits yield their fruit only to those who have practiced them to perfection, in the love and practice of wisdom knowledge is accompanied by delight; for here enjoying comes along with learning, not afterward.

Funny, I'll be getting off a plane Tuesday night....

Mindfulness meditation is, to me, pertinent to an Epicurean. In a nutshell, you begin by choosing a specific "object" to focus on such as your breathing or perhaps the sounds in your environment. Just notice it/them and notice what thoughts pop up. Don't get hung up on the thoughts, just let them go. You can do it sitting quietly or anywhere except driving a vehicle.

The relevance of this to EP is that it's a way to become more aware of your sensations, feelings and underlying thoughts. To me this is a great way to practice and develop a habit of working with the Canon.

Something I've been doing lately which I'm enjoying, which isn't pure meditation, is to listen to a 5-10 minute guided meditation on the Fitbit app before getting out of bed in the morning. I tend to get amped up to get myself out of bed, which ends up setting an anxious tone for my whole day. Starting off by relaxing with a short guided meditation is pretty effortless and sets a much more pleasant tone for the day.

I've commented elsewhere that I don't follow a "hedonic regimen" for the reason that I think it ends up becoming a chore rather than maximizing pleasure. If anything, I prefer a "hedonic menu". The same applies for meditation. There is a great variety of meditation techniques: you might call these tools to work on your pleasure engine (credit to Joshua ). Use one as long as it feels valuable to you but feel free to switch to another. Or to none at all. We're trying to maximize pleasure but not to become Zen masters

I'm interested but won't be able to make this one.

Cassius in my notes on Gosling and Taylor I skipped over the Plato and Aristotle sections . It will be a few days before I'll be able to look it over but I'll see if I can find something. I did read Philebus quite a while ago but can't remember the details, however Don it's only about fifty pages or so, so it's relatively painless to give it a quick read. As for in depth study: now THAT could be torture!

Yes I was saying that the source is the pathe.

If I eat a delicious apple, I experience that through my sensations. Then the feeling of pleasure arises from these sensations. So in the specific context of post #122 I'm suggesting that the feeling of pleasure, not the apple, is the source. There's the stimulus (the apple), the pathe, and the experience of the pathe: duration, location, intensity.

Quote from Don

When discussions like this come up, I always have the feeling that the ancient Epicureans read this and went "Yep, I totally agree with that and it makes perfect sense

Absolutely!

Looking at it like this I'd say that all three apply: location, duration, intensity.

No, the opposite. The source, the pathe, is the same but our experience of it is different in different parts of the mind/body, over different durations and, depending on how one interprets the Greek, due to varying intensities.