Quote from Don[82] But mental tranquillity* means being released from all these troubles and cherishing a continual remembrance of the highest and most important truths.
*ἀταραξία ataraxia (literally spelled ataraksia)
This reads to me like a definition.... 
May I posit that the musk ox is actually pursuing pleasure and not tolerating pain out on the tundra? I get this from time spent with Milo the Alaskan Malamute. He prefers spending his time in the snow, in below zero temperatures, in a snowstorm. He'll hang inside with his people and other dogs, but given the choice, he'll go for the snow.
Of course this is no knock on the musk ox. It may even make it more Epicurean! I'm just questioning this particular analogy 
So happiness is something else beyond pleasure.
This seems problematic to me. And it's also the crux of the issue: is happiness something beyond pleasure?
--Both physical and mental pleasures
--Assurance of security in the future (basic necessities and safety)
--Freedom from fear of death and God(s)
--Physical health
Looking at this, I'd say physical health and pleasure aren't necessarily necessary for happiness, but mental pleasures are. Now, that would imply that there's a ranking of pleasures involved in happiness. However, I don't subscribe to a ranking of pleasures but to classifications of desires. This leads me to the thought that happiness is, perhaps, a static mental pleasure.
A happy life can still feel happy even when immediate pleasure isn't occuring, and I think that it really points to "happiness" being mostly an internal story about whether or not we are feeling pleased about the way our life is currently unfolding.
This sounds right, although I would tend to use "state" instead of "story." And this of course leads to the discussion of ataraxia and eudaimonia, and whether they are fancy pleasures which are more important than pleasure, or whether they are subsets of pleasure.
If I understand correctly, Kalosyni 's quote above is related to Don 's description of a background state of happy homeostasis. I think that that's necessary, but not sufficient, for the fullness of pleasure. Dabbling in prudent extravagance can fill the tank in that regard (referring to one of Cassius 's former illustrations.
A: Pleasure
Why: Happiness is a type of pleasure, whereas pleasure isn't necessarily a type of happiness. It seems to me that pleasure has a pretty specific definition in EP, but happiness is less well defined.
To establish to our own satisfaction that we exist, Eikadistes 's post #3 above seems to me to be the best answer. It goes directly to PD02, and I imagine that most of us take that as a basic fact of existence.
"Sum, sentio, cognosco", or something along those lines? The idea here is that we exist, and we work from that basis. No ergo involved. Maybe add "I act" to the end: sum, sentio, cognosco, ago.
(I don't know Latin, so my word choices may be goofy...)
You can have all the shared values in the world and still in the end not "click" with someone. So I would think that aspect of friendship would have to be considered in these discussions too.
That was probably a frequent topic of frank speech back in the Garden!
Quote from DonEmily's consistent emphasis on "extravagant desires aren't bad" is refreshing!!
To further this comment: as I recall, she mentioned that the extravagant desires are where the real work of the philosophy is done. This line of thinking agrees with my thinking that these desires are the "sweet spot" of working with the philosophy, so that makes me happy 
There are some "moments," but she generally gets back to clarify them in good fashion.
Emily Austin's interview with The Next Big Idea podcast dropped today. It's a great interview and quite favorable to Epicurus. Rufus (the interviewer) mentions some other authors that he's interviewed on the podcast and that some of us have read, so I was quite pleased that he made the connections. Definitely check it out! 
The Next Big Idea - Wondery | Premium Podcasts
Also on Google podcasts, Apple podcasts, etc.
(unless there was a trend ancient poets adopted of heavily employing repetition as a rhetorical technique)
This is what I'm curious about, but totally ignorant. Any thoughts Joshua ?
Humphries does use "we" at line 112 (not 102). That doesn't bother me, though. It's in the midst of describing erroneous views of religion, and leading into the exposition on "nothing comes from nothing", where it's eventually made quite clear that everything is atoms and void.
Humphries:
"Our starting-point shall be this principle:
Nothing at all is never born from nothing
By the gods' will. Ah, but men's minds are frightened
Because they see, on earth and in the heaven,
Many events whose causes are to them
Impossible to fix; so, they suppose,
The gods'will is the reason. As for us,
Once we have seen that Nothing comes from nothing,
We shall perceive with greater clarity
What we are looking for, whence each thing comes,
How things are caused, and no "gods' will" about it.
There are also lots of images of Epicurus that turn up in a Google search of Lucretius 
I answered Melville, but I also like Humphries and Stallings. I tend to prefer the verse versions.
Looks like they probably got it from Wikipedia... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucretius
It also shows up here https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/de-la-nature…r-ce/1134766966
Here it says that this image is an engraving from a bust https://www.britannica.com/biography/Lucretius That might be the bust above, but if so it's not a good match to my eye.
Hard to say if the bust relates to the ring without some side views. The eyes are rather pronounced in each of them, though.
Here's another image. It's on this site https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/contributors/lucretius but I don't see any attribution.
Admin Edit: This thread was split off from an earlier thread concerning Epicurus' Birthday. In this case I left a copy of the posts in the original location, but let's use this thread to discuss "Astronomy Software." I've previously intended to post about "orreries" (and maybe that exists somewhere, and I just can't find it at the moment). At any rate there's plenty of precedent for Epicureans being interesting in the night sky, so we can talk here about software or other technology to assist in that.
For several years my son and I have looked at the moon most evenings that it's visible. This discussion of the lunar calendar has me intrigued as to what it might be like to tune in more closely to the lunar cycles as another way of being in nature. To that end, I found an app! Oh, the irony....
At any rate, Daff Moon gets my vote as an excellent tool. I've been using it for a few weeks now; my favorite features are a chart showing the phases of the moon, and a "sphere" feature that shows the sun and the moon in a simple 3D view in relation to the ground plane at my location. It has lots more: the sun, the planets, orbits, if those are of interest. Two thumbs up!
