We are now requiring that new registrants confirm their request for an account by email. Once you complete the "Sign Up" process to set up your user name and password, please send an email to the New Accounts Administator to obtain new account approval.
This is great! I appreciate your going to the source of the VS. Two other translations for the sake of comparison:
- Anderson: "We should welcome praise from others if it comes unsought, but we should also be engaged in improving ourselves."
- Inwood & Gerson: "Praise from other men must come of its own accord; and we must be concerned with healing ourselves."
An article was shared with me that, I think, grounds prolepsin in neurological science: "This model demonstrated how the neocortex forms efficient conceptual representations from experiences, allowing for both the recreation of past events and the generation of new ones."
I suppose one of the main difficulties initially, is how we can reconcile Epicurus' physics with modern physics? How far are we able to poeticize the teachings to fit in with our modern science? I'm aware how prescient Epicurus' views were and would like the opinion of more classical minded epicureans.
One principle of the teaching of Epicurus is the notion of coherence between multiple explanations. So, regardless of the true identity of Dark Matter and Dark Energy, regardless of the physics that occurs behind an event horizon or within a singularity ... whatever we determine to be the case after this period of evaluation and experimentation, we know that the results will still have to be coherent with the observed behavior of particles.
Ultimately, the concepts that got us to the moon are the same concepts that corresponds with Epicurean atomism. Epicurean physics does not conflict with contemporary physics as much as it has gaps and limitations. For example, Epicurus did not conceptualize the idea of spacetime, but there is nothing in his teachings that directly contradict spacetime. It is an extension, rather than a revision, as is the case with other philosophies.
My wife shot and cut an pseudo-interview for The Hedonicon with me, hosted by Hiram's Society of Friends of Epicurus:
I mean to share the text contained therein:
"GREETINGS to friends and fellow atom prophets! My name is Nate—I am an Epicurean—and I just published The HEDONICON, the world's first 'Epicurean Bible'.
So, first, 'Why call it The Hedonicon?' Consider that [the first chronicle of] the Christian evangel was called the Evangelicon, and the anthology of the apostles was called the Apostolicon, so, I thought it was appropriate to canonize the Holy Book of Epicurus with the target of his teachings: Hēdonḗ … Pleasure, pure, incorruptible pleasure, the Alpha and Omega of the blessed existence.
I created The Book for a few reasons: First, I think we need it. The old Holy Books are all full of holes, and the lazy skepticism of our time is as unhelpful as the cheap metaphysics that are eaten up by the masses. Second, I did it to consecrate (what I call) my religion. Aside from that, I hope that students of Hellenistic philosophy and Latin poetry will benefit from this compilation. Finally, I wish to share with my Christian friends an ancient wisdom tradition, organized in a familiar format, that spreads a gospel of love, faith, and fellowship, yet neither requires suspension of disbelief in a mythic history, nor compliance to an incomprehensible LORD.
As far as that goes, The Hedonicon is a Holy Book, just not your typical Holy Book. As a Holy Book, it preserves the most important truths that elevate human existence. You will find God in this Book ...though that image in your mind neither created the world nor cares for it. You will find the testimony of the soul … which lives and dies with the body. You will find faith … in a real world of sensation and science.
Conviction comes from the Principles of Nature, not from a magic wizard and an ancient prophecy. The Genesis of this 'Bible' is Particle Physics, and the Revelation of this 'Bible' predicts an endless dance of atoms across an infinite void. The Hedonicon is the only Holy Book that anticipates the existence of plants and animals on other worlds, and the only Holy Book sound enough to steer our souls through the storms of the 21st-century.
I hope you find it to be entertaining and instructive."
I found this article from Cambridge (David Patterson) that says that Democritus also mentioned the Jewish practice of ritualistic cannibalism.
I want to dig deeper into this, because I was under the impression that Greek and Hebrew cultures did not interact until just after Epicurus' time.
I have not seen this before in Democritus, but if it was true it makes the connection to Epicureanism even stronger.
I think that the author may have mixed up two, different Democrituses from the Thrace region. The Jewish Encyclopedia notes that the Democritus mentioned in a work by the Greek lexicographer Suidas was not Democritus of Abdera, the philosopher and atomist, but a different, unknown Democritus from Thrace (https://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/3408-…accusation#3489).
This discussion inspired a few memes ...
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes!
I am not sure if he would identified as "Epicurean", but I am absolutely convinced that Shakespeare was very familiar with Lucretius De Rerum Natura, and, given the time period, he must have owned one of a privileged number of copies that would have been available at the time.
You nailed the quote from King Lear (I include it in the Hedonicon). He contradicts Christian creation ex nihilo a few times.
In Romeo and Juliet, there are more than a few references to "atomi".
Shakespeare explicitly steals a few lines of Lucretius in Othello, when describing the Pontick Sea.
Those are just a few references, off of the top of my head. I include more in the Hedonicon because, parallel to my interest in philosophy, I spent the better part of a decade as a theatrical performer, and part of my education is in Shakespeare, so having done a number of shows, I am particularly attuned to recognize Shakespearean references, and, as I read Lucretius, I realized that Shakespeare must have been more than a passing fan.
Awesome find, Cyrano !
(Also, in another thread, we should explore the Lucretian influences on Cyrano de Bergerac, whom I think qualifies as an Epicurean).
[legend='Admin Edit','#ad1d28'So, the question: How does this devotion lead you to life perspectives for today that you could not derive from similar effort to examining the world today?
[...] it is a question about how the philosophical frameworks of two millennia ago are the same or different from today.
For me, the answer is theology.
Regarding physics, we are all (in my not so humble opinion) already Epicureans, whether we realize it or not. As long as we carry universal miniature computers in our pockets that triangulate our positions with respect to the curvature of spacetime, and as long as we are relying on technologies like MRIs to diagnose brain disease, then, without question, we have, as a culture, adopted Indeterministic Atomism.
Regarding epistemology, I make an argument in a paper published by the Society of Friends of Epicurus that suggests that (with our without Epicurus), we would still be navigating the waters of reality with raw sensations, with sensual impressions, and with a sense of feeling. Our scientific enterprise is fundamentally grounded in Empiricism: https://epicureandatabase.wordpress.com/2020/01/17/on-…leasure-wisdom/
Regarding ethics, we might (culturally) sway between uncompromising declarations of moral purity and fleeting devotion to popular virtues, but, at the end of the day, whether it's national defense or just a consumer trying to live on a budget, we are pursuing the pleasant life. We might be influenced by Puritans, but even the Puritans had to submit to the natural will of Winter that required an ethics of Consequentialism.
Theology, however, was a chasm for me, and the teachings of Epicurus provided me with the tools I needed to cross that chasm (if you'll excuse the clunky metaphor). For most of my life, I was, first and foremost, a critic of Christianity; by extension, Abrahamic religion; and, specifically (as I came to find) a critic of the very unique proposition of an immanent, benevolent, omnipotent, omniscient creator. Overall, I identified as an atheist.
Through a study of Epicurean Philosophy, I came to acknowledge that the human impulse to practice piety is natural, and that the idealization of role models as deities is an equally natural practice that we observe in disconnected human societies. As a result, my position of atheism only really addresses the Judeo-Christian-Islamic god, but failed to engage the idea of non-Immanent, non-Creator (and other conceptions).
So, without Epicurus, I would still be a critical atheist that reduced anyone's expression of religiosity to a delusion of the mind, or an uneducated misunderstanding of psychology. Now, I accept that theism (when grounded in atomism) is a perfectly coherent and useful position.
I'd be interested to see the evidence for a direct link from Vedanta to neoplatonism. I am skeptical but all ears.
Plotinus studied under Ammonius Saccas, whose name possibly suggests that he originated from the Shakya clan (from which Siddhartha Guatama originated seven centuries earlier). If he was not literally a member of the Shakya clan (modern-day Nepal), his biography indicates that he was subject to the philosophies of the Classical Period of India, between the Maurya and Gupta Empires (elsewhere called the "Golden Age of Hinduism"). According to Porphyry, "From [his twenty-eight year] that day [Plotinus] stayed continually with Ammonius and acquired so complete a training in philosophy that he became eager to make acquaintance with the Persian philosophical discipline and that prevailing among the Indians." From this, I expect that he would have at least some familiarity with the Upanishads and some exposure to either orthodox or heterodox Indian philosophies.
It is still somewhat speculative, but he was at the right place at the right time. The attestation might be fragmentary, but the consistency of the ideas, and the coherence between concepts like the The One (seemingly Brahman), Henosis (seemingly Moksha), the framing of evil as ignorance, the goal as liberation over ignorance and enlightenment over darkness through the light vis-a-vis truth vis-a-vis goodness ... it sounds alarmingly similar to the extent that I think that Ammonius Saccas and his followers did the same thing that Pyrrho did to earlier "gymnosophists". (As it seems to me, Pryhho adopted the philosophy of Ajñāna (or his understanding and/or adaptation of Ajñāna and others) and re-branded it at Pyrrhonian Skepticism.)
One thing that left an impression on me in recent research was the similarity (and coherence) between Pythagoreanism and neo-Pythagoreanism, Platonism and neo-Platonism, Gnosticism, Heterodox Christianity, Orthodox Christianity, and the emerging schools of Hindu Vedanta. The similarities are not simply parallels between compatible traditions. Rather, there are direct historical links between each tradition that lead me to believe that it is educationally helpful to group these Idealisms into a single branch that considers numbers and logic to be more real than food and water. For example, the first neo-Platonists were either Indian "gymnosophists" themselves, or they were the direct students of Indian gurus. It seems to me that Vedanta is directly responsible for the resurgence of Platonism as a competitor against Christianity and Mithraism in the 2nd-4th-centuries.
What happens if you interpret "Live Unnoticed" within the framework of life experience of Epicurus? Is it to live like the wild flower of the meadow that strives to grow gracefully, a source of pollen for a visiting bee? Is it to live like a tree of the forest that gathers sun, gives shade to its neighbors, and nurtures a place for growth? Is it to live like the quiet craftsman who builds a home for a family? We can imagine many ways where being unnoticed was quiet strength. Could he have meant that?
One story about Epicurus that contextualizes his warnings against participating in government is tempered by his treatment of Mithres. After the move to Lampsacus, Epicurus befriended (correct me if any of these details are inaccurate, this is a ball-park reflection and I might be missing up some of my facts, but...) a man named Mithres, who served on a royal court in modern-day Turkey. Fast-foward to Epicurus' Garden in Athens. Mithres becomes relegated to a political refugee. Notes are exchanged, and Mithres is set to flee to Athens and seek asylum in the Garden. However, as soon as he arrived, he was arrested as a fugitive. Epicurus discovers this, and immediately sends Metrodorus to the jail to post his bail. Mithres briefly lives in the the garden, until he could preserve an independent life for himself without fear of being re-arrested as a fugitive of a State.
I think that recommendation to lathē biosas is occasionally misinterpreted as being a complete withdrawal from all forms of human society so completely that they are unwilling to take a stand when an existential threat arises due to politics. Contrary to that, Epicurus invited slaves to learn in his Garden, he went out of his way to personally pay for the freedom of political refugees, and he offered amnesty to international fugitives. When moving to Lampsacus, he immediately tried to befriend members of government to ease scrutiny on his tradition, and it worked. I think lathē biosas might be better seen to us in the modern era as something like ... "keep your head low and your mouth shut", which follows Epicurus' proposition that the Sage may occasionally break the law, but only if doing so improves their circumstances and they cannot be convicted.
To wrap this back around to the main topic, one-way-or-the-other, lathē biosas is a good, and, in particular, an instrumental good, but not, itself, the goal, which is resolutely pleasure.
Would you consider authoring an essay or maybe a literary letter for inclusion in future editions?
I added a 3,000-word foreword at the beginning (it's part of the free preview on Amazon and I also included the preview on Academia.edu), but I would definitely like to expand.
What would a 'holy book' of Epicureanism look like and what would it contain other than the letters of Epicurus and the poem of Lucretius?
I believe it would look something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Hedonicon-Holy…s/dp/B0CNTN6KH6 
I aim to include Philodemus' prose and Diogenes of Oinoanda's etching in future editions.
I now have my printed copy of Nate's new book and I want to second the praise in the posts above. The images included with the book (Nate's wife art plus the timeline and map) are a great bonus. It's well organized and has a very good introductory essay. This is quality work and it's great to see Nate take the initiative to do this!
Thank you for the praise! I appreciate all of your support. There are certainly places I would like further develop, but I am pleased with the First Edition and I hope others find it to be a useful reference book.
Thanks also, Bryan for the Amazon review. They always help!
I also really like Genevra's portrait of "Epicurus in the Garden" on page 114 of your book (paperback version arrived today!
). Any chance you could add that one to the thread here? Many thanks!
Welcome @UFO and I dig the name. I invite you to some of our threads about the gods and extra-terrestrials.
Just for curiosity, is the red fruit in "Epicurus Dines" pomegranate (perhaps) or tomatoes or ... ?
Tomatoes would be anachronistic, but -- as a poet of sorts -- I completely affirm anachronisms as a valid and vital part of artistic license!
I recall Gen mentioning to me that she leaves it up to the observer. It is definitely not tomatoes, and I'm glad you brought that up, because I only learned as an adult that tomatoes were not introduced to Europe until 1521.
That looks great Nate! I don't see a button where a printed version can be purchased but I presume that you are working on that?
I am, indeed! There was an additional issue with the printing after I received it, so I unpublished the paperback and am working with Amazon to fix the formatting issues. I am hoping to resolve it today, if not by this weekend.
I am pleased to announce that the paperback version of The Hedonicon is now available:
Epicurus by YouriAlden (2013)
Epicurus Coloring Book (?)
Epicurus from Ward and Lock's Illustrated History of the World (1882)
Epicurus Greek Philosopher Date by Mary Evans (2018)
Epicurus Laughing by SimoneDebuvua
Epicurus New Yorker Caricature
Epicurus NFT by Greek Philosophers Club
Epicurus Vector Sketch Portrait by Ivona17
Epicurus, Pemikir Kebahagiaan yang Tak Bisa Dibiarkan (indonesian)
Thinker Epicurus in Tamil
Epicure in Charcoal by splatteredvenue (2007)
Epicure Part 2 by splatteredvenue (2007)
Epicurus (wrongly titled Plato) by Rubens in 1638 (BM Asset 876575001)
Epicurus & Seneca by Guia do Estudante
Epicurus by Evi Sarantea (2012)
Epicurus by fogbird
Epicurus by Gijs Kast Huijgen
Epicurus By Granger
Epicurus by Lucy Calder
Epicurus by Martin Rowson
