Posts by brett

I'm ok for either one at this point. I'll get reading chapter 6.

Brett

I very much agree. I also live as simply as is comfortable so I can save adequately for just such an eventuality.

The beauty of understanding that pleasure can be extravagant experiences but is just as easily achieved with barley cakes and water is that you can enjoy both when it’s appropriate and when it doesn’t cause more pain than pleasure. For me there’s huge value in cultivating simple pleasures as a way to free myself from bondage to others. The cynics had that part right...:-)

Brett

hi Cassius,

I couldn't agree more with your premise.

While I can really appreciate the strategy, needed in some circumstances, of limiting pleasures to further limit pains, I don't buy the angle that that's the whole story.

Great post.

Brett

Quote from Maciej

Epicurus precisely say and let me quote

So please find and let us know those fragments that will enlighten us. Or let be enlighten by us by pointing to you what is evident to everybody.

Evident to you. Not to everyone. Please understand that clearly some far more seasoned scholars than any of us have taken both sides. This is not a clear-cut 'of course' issue.

I also think that the principle of seeking friendships for pleasure and security applies. If you have a lifelong relationship that brings you pleasure AND security (worthy of debating the different interpretations of secure), it seems marriage is a boon. Some marriages, either due to individual constitutions, choices, or circumstances (or a combination of these) are more pain than pleasure.

For me, my 16 year relationship is the highlight of my life and it's brought me FAR more pleasure than pain. Sure, I forgo the short-term pleasure of casual sex with others whom I find attractive, but that is far far outweighed by the benefits (since my wife has started managing our 401k and retirement, the goal of financial security is in sight!).

I'd be VERY interested to see how the textual criticism angle plays out. Seems Bailey has his issues so curious the choice he made in translation.

Thank you both. It’s very encouraging to start to see these principles working themselves out in daily life.

As a bonus, I woke up this morning and have the added pleasure of not being groggy, foggy headed , etc. the decision to maximize my long-term pleasure most certainly, from this side of the decision, was justified. Instead of 1-2 more enjoyable martinis I can function...:-)

Thanks for letting me share.

(I shall most definitely return to my previous pic...it’s one of my favorites...I feared it made me look a little too outlandish...I see it did not...:-))

hi all,

My job takes me coast to coast USA on a regular basis. I am constantly being asked to client and company dinners while out on assignment.

In the past, I've struggled with overindulging in alcohol. So much so, that I've dealt with a seeming never-ending cycle of overindulgence, guilt, promise to stop altogether, overindulgence, guilt...etc.

Over the last few months, I've pondered how to handle this with my newfound Epicurean mindset. Tonight, after a particularly rowdy client/company dinner and cocktail hour here in New Orleans (a fabulous city to overindulge), I walked back to my hotel with a peer of mine who was also done drinking for the evening.

It dawned on me that the last few dinners/nights out, I have stopped prior to getting to the point of 'no return'. Each time, I was offered another drink and took a moment to ask myself "at this point in my evening, will having another adult beverage lead to a little longer pleasant feeling or will it result in feeling like crap in the morning and diminish my capacity to be alert and rested the next day?" That little self-talk stopped me again from having another drink.

for me the test of a philosophy is whether it helps in real-life to bring peace and harmony. The realization that Epicurus is helping me to improve my daily life is a test to it's efficacy...one which it has passed with flying colors.

Thanks,

Brett

Welcome engenb!!

Welcome christos!

1. Nature / Physics
   
   1. There is no supernatural realm/entity that governs/interacts with the universe
   2. Atoms and void are the basic building blocks of reality
   3. Natural laws guide physical processes
   4. Basic state of the physical world is change and transformation - nothing is static materially
2. Knowledge /Truth
   1. The senses are reliable witnesses
   2. Reason helps us determine what philosophical principles are valid (i.e. especially in deducing next principles from axioms)
   3. Especially with respect to knowledge of the physical world, we are constantly revising 'knowledge' in response to new facts and data through the scientific method
3. Ethics / How to live
   1. Pleasure is the only/ultimate goal of life
   2. What is pleasurable for one is not for another - pleasure is relative to a large extent
   3. Some actions, on average, tend to create pain (unfaithfulness to friends/loved ones, theft) for most folks while some tend to create pleasure (deep friendship)
   4. "Live and let live" - the good society is the one that allows people to express and pursue their own pleasures and only limits the former when it interfers with that selfsame pursuit of others or by doing so will increase the likelihood of greater pleasure than the pain of restriction freedom
   5. Death is not to be feared - for when we die we are no longer subject to sensation, anticipations or feelings
   6. Actions should always be decided by the result of the decision with respect to pain/pleasure. However, some actions which result in pain are worthy of choice when the long-term result is pleasure (i.e. exercising SUCKS but the short term pain can result in longer term bodily pleasure via better health)
   7. Friendship is a beautiful way to secure advantage for both sides of the equation and there is no shame in gaining benefit from friendship so long as the benefit is mutual

1. Nature / Physics
   
   1. There is no supernatural realm/entity that governs/interacts with the universe
   2. Atoms and void are the basic building blocks of reality
   3. Natural laws guide physical processes
   4. Basic state of the physical world is change and transformation - nothing is static materially
2. Knowledge /Truth
   1. The senses are reliable witnesses
   2. Reason helps us determine what philosophical principles are valid (i.e. especially in deducing next principles from axioms)
   3. Especially with respect to knowledge of the physical world, we are constantly revising 'knowledge' in response to new facts and data through the scientific method
3. Ethics / How to live
   1. Pleasure is the only/ultimate goal of life
   2. What is pleasurable for one is not for another - pleasure is relative to a large extent
   3. Some actions, on average, tend to create pain (unfaithfulness to friends/loved ones, theft) for most folks while some tend to create pleasure (deep friendship)
   4. "Live and let live" - the good society is the one that allows people to express and pursue their own pleasures and only limits the former when it interfers with that selfsame pursuit of others or by doing so will increase the likelihood of greater pleasure than the pain of restriction freedom
   5. Death is not to be feared - for when we die we are no longer subject to sensation, anticipations or feelings

BRANDON!!!! So glad you joined.

All: Brandon and I have been BFF's for 22+ years. He's a super guy. In contrast to me, he's a science geek and will have lots to contribute on that front.

LOVE IT! This is great Hiram. Hopefully I'll be able to develop mine to this level of detail/scope.

thanks Cassius. I'll do some reading of the link above and see if I should tweak my axioms.

A very fun exercise.

Brett

Okie dokie. Here goes.

1. Nature / Physics
   
   1. There is no supernatural realm/entity that governs the universe
   2. Matter and void are the basic building blocks of reality
   3. Natural laws guide physical processes
   4. Basic state of the physical world is change and transformation - nothing is static materially
2. Knowledge /Truth
   1. The senses are reliable witnesses
   2. Reason helps us determine what philosophical principles are valid (i.e. especially in deducing next principles from axioms)
   3. Especially with respect to knowledge of the physical world, we are constantly revising 'knowledge' in response to new facts and data through the scientific method
3. Ethics / How to live
   1. Pleasure is the goal of life
   2. What is pleasurable for one is not for another - pleasure is relative to a large extent
   3. Some actions, on average, tend to create pain (unfaithfulness to friends/loved ones, theft) for most folks while some tend to create pleasure (deep friendship)
   4. "Live and let live" - the good society is the one that allows people to express and pursue their own pleasures and only limits the former when it interfers with that selfsame pursuit of others

Love this idea. I will post mine in the next few days!

Brett

I too was always under the impression that Epicurus advocated for an ascetic lifestyle. This thread and many others have convinced me otherwise. I’m one of those who was turned off by that misunderstanding. Happy for me to have learned the truth!!

I thought this was a great thread.

Thank you kind sir!

hi all,

Curious if there's a translation that folks like best of DRN?

Thanks,

Brett