Those are good.
I have to admit also that I've been impressed with it since I first heard it - Rolfe Humphries' title "The Way Things Are"
Those are good.
I have to admit also that I've been impressed with it since I first heard it - Rolfe Humphries' title "The Way Things Are"
Ha - I see that has a subtitle - "How To Thrive In A World Out Of Your Control." I know we all feel that way at times but I'd like to think that an Epicurean alternative book would have a very different "feel" to it. And it's also interesting that they chose not to include their "trademark word" - virtue.
The Emily Austin article you mentioned is a good reference for any Stoic and we need to highlight it more here.
That is a great suggestion and we talk about it frequently. Several of us are working on something similar but unfortunately nothing I am aware of is ready for production. But this is a goal that is very high on our list.
Aside from the forum posts you mentioned, I would also recommend the Lucretius podcast. We'll incorporate that in whatever written materials we come up with, but I think an important part of any curriculum is personal participation and discussion with other like-minded people, and the podcast can help simulate that until we have more programs available.
I expect us to want to track Lucretius very closely (at least in the big picture) as we do this. If you have not spent quality time with Lucretius I think finding a good annotated translation (the Martin F. Smith version for instance) would be a good idea. Lucretius was presenting to Memmius pretty much exactly what you are looking for - a step by step introduction to the philosophy.
And here is an important point: Lucretius' focus on the physics is a feature, not a bug. I think Lucretius starts and emphasizes exactly where the philosophy presentation needs to start, and he goes over these big picture in a logical order. Here's a summary I've been working on recently:
Lucretius mentions pleasure throughout, and he incorporates it into the opening of the poem and the interesting starting points of each book, but he starts the deep discussions with the fundamentals of how nature works, how death is the end, how humans have free will, and how knowledge is based on the senses.
This sets the stage properly from the beginning, and when you establish these fundamentals - such as how short life is and yet how pleasure is the driving force of all life - it seems to me you are much less likely to fall into the trap of thinking that "running from pain" is the focus of what life should be all about.
Do you know how the Epicuean attitude is for a general Philantropy/compassion /sympathy or let´s say "social feelings".
I am sure that many here will have good comments on this. The first thing that would come to my mind in laying the ground work for the discussion, however, would be to suggest that this question stated this way is essentially another form of the "virtue" question that is discussed at great length in the Epicurean texts. The qualities you are suggesting (and even friendship is included in this) are tested by the practical question of whether they in fact (and not in theory) lead to a more pleasant life for the individual who is asking the question. Maybe the best example of this is in the Torquatus narrative starting at least around line 32.
As in the Vatican Saying, our desire for the qualities you mention are subject to the same test: VS71. :Every desire must be confronted by this question: What will happen to me if the object of my desire is accomplished, and what if it is not?"
Now having said that, a very good case can be made in many instances for pleasure arising from pursuing the objectives you list, but if you cross the line into thinking that these objectives are worthy "in themselves" apart from the actual results they produce, then I would suggest Epicurus would say that analysis goes too far astray from the goal of real people pursuing pleasure in their own lives and - as with any other deviation from "pleasure" as the goal - would end up with results that undermine that goal.
Now with that as a fundamental you could go forward in many ways to show that in particular situations with particular people, the goals you mention can be in many ways pleasure-enhancing.
Yes I see the pugilist demeanor as well. I don't see it matching the other Hermarchus busts, but I could see the possibility that it is neither one of them.
Those wide eyes on the one we are discussing reminds of me this one, which the clip says is Theophrastus --
However when you click over to the page that apparently comes from, the head/hair shape is very different:
As for #12, the shape of the head seems wrong and he's way too stern to accord with the images of Epicurus that I'm used to seeing.
I agree that this is more stern than most, but I see this as consistent with his dominant presentation in the remaining busts. I would probably call it more "piercing" or "serious" than stern, but I think that's likely the way he was perceived -- as very SERIOUSLY pursing his philosophy.
For example this one, which is not one of the small ones from herculaneum but which makes him also look serious:
And look at the focused / concerned eyebrows here:
As for the deviant version - let me get this out of the way - I see the deviant version as THIS one which many commentators today like to use because the damage to the eyes and angle of head can be lighted in a way that makes him look like a stupified pot-head This is the one I see as - in its present form - out of character. If it were an attempt to make him smiling, I would say it's acceptable, but even before the eyebrow was damaged it appears to me to be more of a "blank" expression, which again would not be a good look for someone as acute as Epicurus.
Here is the book cover we are talking about (which appears to me to be Hermarchus based largely on the eyes)
Ha! My confusion increases
Is *that* the one on the book cover?
I would have said the book cover is clearly the one we all agree to be Hermarchus, which is not shown currently in this thread.
This one doesn't add anything except the page number from that old sketchbook --If I had to speculate I would say that this is a poor representation of the bust I just posted in post 12 above. Doesn't the posture seem more erect than in the ones we typically see, but still the face of Epicurus? And look at the furrows in the forehead which the sketcher tried to capture.
I am thinking that there exist several distinctively different busts of Epicurus that we have to be aware of to take into account, with this one being the least well used (but not at all the worst in the picture that is posted above in 12).
Referring back again to the clip in post 5 above --
I found another reference I came across long ago. Not sure I can find the URL for this, but take a look. This looks to me to be the one we are discussing, and it's identified here as a Epicurus (which seems to me what I would think too). I will see if I can find a URL or another reference.
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A lot of these programs are terminal based but I prefer them to GUI programs because of their extensibility and speed.
Well that list shows how hard core you really are, and far advanced ahead of me.
I have heard of most of those and occasionally tried them, but I still use mostly GUI - based programs on an XFCE desktop.
I don't have the occasion to do so much anymore, but I used to like to show my friends how they could better use Linux than windows, so I still mostly use the GUIs and options that look mostly like Windows so I could work with my friends who will never go full terminal-based.
The one thing that I have not found in native linux is outlining programs, and I am a big outliner. The two I mentioned (logseq and obsidian) are electron apps - which I don't care for - but they work well. In addition to those I still daily use "Ecco Pro" which was abandoned in 1997 but still runs fine in linux/wine.
But I'll repeat here again: I think we have a significant use case in Epicurean philosophy for the use of outlines (which Epicurus pretty much recommends verbatim). I am trying to organize my public domain Epicurean materials into markdown files for use in either an obsidian or logseq database which we could let people download for free so as to get a head start on collecting the sources.
In the meantime, that's how I have made this website: https://epicuruscollege.com/coursematerial/
That's a series of markdown files organized through obsidian and then turned into a website with Mkdocs-Material, which is also a FOSS program for assembling documentation. I am also experimenting with Docusaurus, but I think the Mkdocs-Material system works a little better for turning the markdown files into a website.
do you use LibreOffice Draw for your highlighted and underlined text clips that you post? For your other posted graphics? I use other aspects of LibreOffice but haven't tried Draw.
Godfrey:
I have never really been able to settle on a paint/draw program or really get comfortable with a graphics editor. I occasionally try GIMP and Inkscape but never take the time to learn it properly. I have found Libreoffice draw to be an easy to use compromise on putting together graphics, but I keep looking for a major graphics program to really take the time to learn.
So as to Libreoffice I don't really use the text and spreadsheet much (I use the Softmaker Office linux programs instead for maximum Microsoft compatibility) but I do use the Libreoffice Draw regularly.
My screen shots with underlined text are done with Ksnip https://github.com/ksnip/ksnip
When I want to combine several screenshots or pictures into a larger picture, I take the screenshot with Ksnip and then I paste into Libreoffice draw where I move things around and then add annotations.
Thank you Martin!
Do we know who is referred to here as challenging the authorship?
They can never resist accentuating the negative. I would say more like pigs as symbols of the uninhibited pursuit of pleasure and the unwllingness to bow to authority.
Yes the image Don is pointing to in post 8 just doesn't seem to me to look like the image in post 5. The image in post 5 at first glance looks to me more like a variation of Epicurus himself.
I don't doubt that you guys are right but that image in post 5 (which I do think I have seen before) confuses me.
Good idea for a list of the open source software we use. The major ones that come to mind that I am currently using:
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