Posts by Cassius

In preparation for this coming weekend's recording of episode 265, I thought I would see if anyone had any suggestions for texts to include on the specific topic of the competition between virtue and pleasure for the title of "highest good."

While the letter to Menoeceus and the Principle Doctrines (for example, PD05) mention specific virtues like justice and honor and wisdom, I am looking for texts that specifically contrast the competition between "virtue" as a category vs "pleasure" as a category for the top role.

Diogenes Laertius' inscription contains the "shouting" fragment that the end of life is pleasure and not virtue, and Torquatus goes on at length about this precise competition.

I think one of the Jefferson letters makes the specific point too.

Those give us most of the material we need, but if anyone remembers anything else referencing virtue vs pleasure on the category level that we should be sure to include, please add to this thread.

There's lots of material in praise of pleasure from which we can choose as needed, and many references to particular virtues like justice. But if anyone remembers any specific comparisons of pleasure vs virtue in any of the secondary literature (other works of Cicero, works of Plutarch, or Philodemus, etc,) please post in the thread and i will add it to the discussion outline here.

Thanks!

We speak frequently about translating words from the Greek, but much less frequently about Greek numbering. This subject came up in tonight's Wednesday Zoom meeting and Bryan has graciously forwarded me the information below about how the Greeks recorded numbers. All of us know the Arabic system and most of us know some Roman numerals, but this is to start a thread on the Greek numbering system. I am not at first thought able to name any immediate philosophical implications of how the Greeks counted, but I bet there are some. Thanks again to Bryan for this material:

The Greek system seems simple compared to what the Romans were doing. It is closer to our decimal system, although still more rigid.

Wow yes great video! I didn't see the scene you're referring to where the top of the mountain was reconstructed but I gather there is at least one fresco showing the top of the mountain to be MUCH taller!

Episode 264 of the Lucretius Today Podcast is now available: "Bread and Water??!! Debunking The Myth Of Epicurean Asceticism." For a slideshow version of this talk, click the "Featured Videos" link on our home page.

I hope you'll keep notes and eventually find time to prepare something on some of these physics issues Bryan. I just posted Don's "Bread and Water" as a separate podcast episode and I think a shorter focused talk format works very well - as it would for some focused physics issues.

We're about to release this special episode of Lucretius Today, with Don's talk on the myth of Epicurean asceticism. I'm pleased with this format and think you'll enjoy it. It works well to have a shorter format on a single topic, and we'll do more of these in the future. These are a good complement to our longer-format shows on key doctrines of Epicurus that we are in the process of preparing now.

And after this episode Don may be forever-after known as "The Great Debunker!"

So these "Fellows" are who?

And I see - you are saying that because the statement is interpreted as a demeaning reference to other human beings (outsiders to the religion?), there was a reluctance to attribute it to Jesus (?)

Ha!

Good reminder of these lines - hard to find better practical Epicurean advice than this:

Latin
inter spem curamque, timores inter et iras
omnem crede diem tibi diluxisse supremum:

English (Loeb Classics)

Amid hopes and cares, amid fears and passions,
believe that every day that has dawned is your last.

Also: just as the title of this thread was abbreviated to "pearls before swine," I realize now that I tend to completely forget that that is only 50% of the allusion.

As to the second part, people seem to be acclimated to accept unthinkingly that pigs are "unworthy" creatures. Aside from that being an extremely debatable assumption in general, in my most recent encounter with two large pigs running wild I found them to be friendly and totally unthreatening.

But as to the mostly-forgotten first part, they've largely lost the war on that one. Dogs are almost universally beloved at least here in the West, and dogs' perceptiveness as to the true value of the "sacred" seems to me to be a lot better reasoned than that of many humans.

From now on I will be remembering the "dogs" part as much or more than the "swine" part.

Prior discussion:

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Episode 197 -LucretiusToday Interviews Dr. Marcelo Boeri

Welcome to Episode 197 of the Lucretius Today Podcast. Today we are very privileged to present to you an interview with Dr. Marcelo Boeri, Professor of Ancient Philosophy at the Pontifical Catholic University of Chile. Dr. Boeri is originally from Buenos Aires, and after receiving his Ph.D. from the University of Salvador in 1995, he has worked extensively in the field of Ancient Greek philosophy ever since, lecturing at many distinguished universities around the world.

We are greatly…

Cassius

October 22, 2023 at 7:36 AM

Prior discussion:

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Article and Short Video By Don On The Location of The Garden of Epicurus in Athens

youtu.be/qYkkX67TZd8

Thanks to Don for all the hard work on the article and for presenting a condensed version by video. The article can be downloaded here:

epicureanfriends.com/wcf/filebase/file/67/

Cassius

April 22, 2023 at 8:49 AM

Prior discussion took place here:

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Seven Steps With Epicurus - A Slide Presentation

epicureanfriends.com/wcf/attachment/3636/

As part of our collaborative work toward an "Epicurean Week" we have come up with a series of "power-point" slides which introduce the philosophy in seven simple steps. The formulation here may change over time as we fine tune this as part of our course materials. This will eventually be expanded into a "7 Weeks with Epicurus". Questions and comments are welcome. Click here for the presentation or you can just click on the graphic above to begin the…

Cassius

April 4, 2023 at 9:31 AM

Prior discussion of this interview took place here:

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Episode 166 - The Lucretius Today Podcast Interviews Dr. David Glidden on "Epicurean Prolepsis"

Welcome to episode 166 of Lucretius Today. This is a podcast dedicated to the poet Lucretius, who wrote "On The Nature of Things," the only complete presentation of Epicurean philosophy left to us from the ancient world. Each week we walk you through the Epicurean texts, and we discuss how Epicurean philosophy can apply to you today. If you too find the Epicurean worldview attractive, we invite you to join us in the study of Epicurus at EpicureanFriends.com, where you will find a discussion…

Cassius

March 18, 2023 at 7:35 AM

Discussion of our interviews with Dr. Austin occurred In Episodes 156 and 157 of the Lucretius Today Podcast.

You can access the original podcasts and show discussions in the following links:

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Episode 156 - Lucretius Today Interviews Dr. Emily Austin - Part One

Welcome to episode 156, a special two-part Episode of Lucretius Today. This is a podcast dedicated to the poet Lucretius, who wrote "On The Nature of Things," the only complete presentation of Epicurean philosophy left to us from the ancient world. Each week we walk you through the Epicurean texts, and we discuss how Epicurean philosophy can apply to you today. If you too find the Epicurean worldview attractive, we invite you to join us in the study of Epicurus at EpicureanFriends.com, where…

Cassius

January 10, 2023 at 12:58 AM

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Episode 157 - Lucretius Today Interviews Dr. Emily Austin - Part Two

Welcome to episode 157, part two of a special two part Episode of Lucretius Today. This is a podcast dedicated to the poet Lucretius, who wrote "On The Nature of Things," the only complete presentation of Epicurean philosophy left to us from the ancient world. Each week we walk you through the Epicurean texts, and we discuss how Epicurean philosophy can apply to you today. If you too find the Epicurean worldview attractive, we invite you to join us in the study of Epicurus at…

Cassius

January 19, 2023 at 10:13 AM

Related Thread (this video originally appeared in post 39 of this thread:

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Propositional Logic, Truth Tables, and Epicurus' Objection to "Dialectic"

Martin has pointed out what appears to be an excellent opportunity to put together a special presentation on Epicurean views of "formal logic" and its relationship to reality. The opportunity comes from our mention in an earlier thread of the following statement by Torquatus in Cicero's On Ends:

epicureanfriends.com/wcf/attachment/2222/

Again, the thread reference was here, and below is a copy of Martin's post: RE: Issues In The Meaning And Definition of Logic



…

Cassius

September 5, 2021 at 10:52 AM

Prior Thread is here:

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New Music Created by Michele Pinto and Andrea Celidoni - Free As Epicurus - The Epicurus Rap!

Great work @michelepinto and Andrea!


youtu.be/66yOo7bZ0mA

Cassius

August 10, 2020 at 10:20 AM

Prior thread from 2018

Very interesting thought. In my experience actual animals don't find stone-like objects of any kind to be particularly interesting one way or another, so I wouldn't expect them to take much notice of pearls.

So is this a figurative slam at Epicureans and Cynics rather than actual pigs and dogs?

I'm not aware that there was a significant body of Cynics active during the times this statement was allegedly made, but I definitely think that's worth consideration, especially since I gather that the attitude toward dogs and pigs among the Judeo-christians of the time was generally negative.

I have never felt that what I understand to be Cynicism is attractive at all, but to the extent there is a core of affinity between their attitude and the honesty and forthrightness of dogs, then since I like dogs more than many people, I would find that to be the best attribute of "Cynicism."

Seeing the phrase not as a focusing on the obvious truth that it's not good to throw away valuable things, but as more focused on slamming "undesirables" like dogs and pigs, and connecting that with Epicureans, does make sense to me.

Over time I will be adding additional references to this presentation and continuing to revise the text, so always look for the latest version of the text here:

The Epicurean Paradigm Shift

Feel free to post here about this video version, and also see the discussion of the podcast version here:

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Episode 266 - The Epicurean Paradigm Shift

Welcome to Episode 266 of Lucretius Today. This is a podcast dedicated to the poet Lucretius, who wrote "On The Nature of Things," the most complete presentation of Epicurean philosophy left to us from the ancient world.

Each week we walk you through the Epicurean texts, and we discuss how Epicurean philosophy can apply to you today. If you find the Epicurean worldview attractive, we invite you to join us in the study of Epicurus at EpicureanFriends.com, where we discuss this and all of our…

Cassius

February 2, 2025 at 9:48 AM