Posts by Cassius

Haris' release of a second edition shows that he is interested in working to always improve. I am pretty sure that overall you'll agree with his approach.

Very interesting Martin, and continues to be an interesting topic. D.L thought it was an interesting enough detail to include in his biography, it's just a shame that he didn't make more clear what was thought of the significance of it.

This is so embarrassing -- to have Haris work available for years and not to have taken more advantage of it. To anyone so inclined - please help me fix that.

In case you haven't checked out his website in a while, Haris has two music videos and two presentation videos there:

Facbook version of the above post:

It has just come to my attention that Haris has released a second edition of his "Epicurus and the Pleasant Life." His detailed preface is available on his website here. The following is an excerpt:

Quote from Haris Dimitriadis

My deep confidence in the truthfulness of the Epicurean philosophy and, in particular, in its capacity to help modern people live a happy life, is the driving force that motivates me to do whatever is possible within my powers to make this largely unfamiliar philosophy accessible and meaningful to the general public. I have tried to objectively present the alternative views, both ancient and contemporary, so that the truth reveals itself transparently by the sheer comparison of the evidence.

Five years since the first publication of the book and fifteen years since my first encounter with the Epicurean philosophy, I feel that the circumstances are ripe now to go through the second edition. There are several reasons that nourish my desire to improve the quality of the first edition: my accumulated personal experience from the application of the philosophy in everyday life; my continuous research on the Epicurean philosophy over the years; and the feedback I received from an ample number of reviewers of the first edition.

All these reasons are powerful motives to present a comprehensive version of the Epicurean philosophy, shed light on the remaining dark areas, and lastly, address the reported weaknesses of the first edition.

I have been an appreciative fan of Haris for the many years that I have been in (unfortunately sporadic) communication with him over at Facebook. In fact we have at least one article from him featured here on Epicureanfriends:

Blog Article

"Challenging Ataraxia" - By Haris Dimitriadis

Haris Dimitriadis is author of “The Pleasant Life – The Philosophy of Epicurus.” Born in Greece, Haris studied Mathematics at the Aristotelian University of Thessaloniki as well as Economics at the London School of Economics. His career spanned the business and banking industries and has settled into retirement. Through climbing the corporate ladder he found it brought little peace of mind and turned his attention to the philosophy of Epicurus. Haris can be contacted through his website …

Cassius

May 15, 2020 at 1:54 PM

I think we have missed too long being more engaged with Haris and his work, and I'm going to try to work to remedy that in the coming months. With the recent release of Emily Austin's "Living for Pleasure," 2022 has turned into a landmark year for publication of accessible introductions to Epicurus.

For any of you who are so inclined I hope you will join me in looking over Haris' book and even more, let's try to engage with him more closely over the coming months and years. I am embarrassed to say that I am not sure whether Haris has an account here or not, but if he doesn't I will try to talk him into dropping in every so often.

Not sure who did this engraving, and it's not a good likeness, but I find the inscription interesting. What's it say? "Praised by some, Blamed by others"? And a reference to Horace? Sort of reminds me of Dewitt's opening paragraph - "At the very outset the reader should be prepared to think of him at one and the same time as the most revered and the most reviled of all founders of thought in the Graeco-Roman world."

This screen clip comes from Allposters.com - "Perfetti" (is that a reference to an artist or art type?)

Quote from Don

I always saw this as more palliative for the pain than any hint of suicide.

Yes I have always presumed that too, but I am no expert on the effects of wine or even warm baths. I am not sure what kind of pain that disease causes, or whether it would even make sense to think that warmth of a bath might be of any relief. I suppose today we use narcotics and other such drugs when we are really in pain, and I presume things like "a shot of whiskey' are used to dull pain, but it would be interesting to hear more from a medical side, or from someone more familiar with ancient Greek medicine. For example, why wine as opposed to something else? As Nate has been mentioning lately, didn't the ancient Greeks have access to perhaps even hallucinogenic drugs that might also have been used for pain? To what extent was the undiluted wine "enjoyable" (as was maybe the warm bath) rather than something to hasten death? The way DL writes it, it is almost as if getting in the bath and drinking the wine would naturally be expected to lead to death, but if so that's totally unintuitive to me.

I don't think the system has this date entered so this is a manual entry. Happy Birthday Elli ! Thanks for all you have done to assist Epicurean philosophy, and me personally, over the years!

Thanks again, Martin. Couple of things:

(1) The exercise reminds me that we have a link database that people are welcome to add to here: https://www.epicureanfriends.com/wcf/index.php?link-overview/ I used that to find the Athens Greece Epicurean website: https://www.epicuros.gr/pages/en.htm

(2) I found the article, so I did not have to email Christos. Here is the presentation in full: https://www.epicuros.gr/arthra/Euthana…poulos_2017.pdf

Unfortunately the only real detail is:

Quote

Moreover, the evidence that his friends put Epicurus in a tub of hot water and gave him undiluted wine as he wished is an insightful piece of information i.e. he was preparing for his end, with the help of his friends. He acted upon this when he knew his end was approaching and he did this in a most relieving manner. Hot water alleviated his severe pains and relaxed his body. The undiluted wine created mental relaxation. The undiluted wine hastened his end as it reacted on an already weakened body. In other words, Epicurus perhaps did what we call today "euthanasia in the final stages of incurable disease." He acted this way just before approaching his natural end and not a moment sooner, despite his unbearable pains. He managed this due to his philosophy.'

But you have a very good memory, Martin.

Very interesting. I will email Christos and ask him if he remembers and what he thinks about that. Would undiluted wine be a depressant to breathing or otherwise help lead to death?

Episode 152 of the Lucretius Today Podcast is now available. This week we turn to Chapter 6 and begin discussion of "The New Education."

I can't remember anything specific from my own memory at this point, but perhaps similar to the direction you are going is the issue of dreams:

Oh gosh - four years ago - no telling what I said back then but if you think it's helpful then maybe so.

I'm much more fond of this presentation, which may also come through a "Cassius" filter, but which is more insulated from error by sticking more strictly with the texts:

Emanating -- yes -- the theory seems to be a constant flow of atoms from every body that is always going on outward, in every direction, without any action or intent on the part of the body giving off the images.

Quote from Kalosyni

And also thinking that I actually do like the "myth of arrival" in this very life (that there could be some benefit to it) -- and so thinking about the Epicurean idea of "living like the gods" in this very life -- do we have a thread on that?

I have another comment on this as to "arrival." I see the concept of "arrival" in general as perfectly valid. "XXXXX has arrived at a better understanding of Epicurus" makes perfect sense.

But in the connection we are talking about here, the issue Nietzsche raises reminds me of one of what I think is the prime dangers of loose discussion of "absence of pain." Maybe I am the only one who ever interpreted the modern discussions that way, but I have the strong impression that some people are talking as if -- if they squeeze every drop of pain out of their lives through ascetic living - they somehow pass through a doorway into another world - a nirvana - into the "true world" - in which they experience something entirely different and higher than what we mortals understand to be mental and physical pleasure.

To the extent that people are using "ataraxia" and "absence of pain" as "destinations" at which they can "arrive" and thereby achieve some kind of salvation-like higher state that frees them from the body and lets them commune with something higher ("pure reason contemplating absolute truth" as Joshua has mentioned), I think that view is a huge mistake and misapplication of what Epicurus was teaching.

Just to avoid any confusion or fear that this will amount to a "Cassius lecture session" ---

We need to talk about this but I think we expect to welcome other long-time regulars on the forum to participate and contribute as well. At the very least as Kalosyni says one of the two of us will be present to host the session, but we've yet to formulate exactly the format so other long-time regulars are encouraged to be part of the welcome team. "Open to all level one members" means primarily that the session is aimed at helping new people, not "we don't want level three and above members to participate."

Quote from Don

Both of these, while conveying Cicero's consternation at the idea, point to the Epicureans teaching that the mind was "struck" by images directly, especially in recollection of memories or thinking about something.

I agree, almost like there is a radio/tv-like "tuning" mechanism where we receive the outside "images" that we are "tuning our minds" to receive. A combination of an on-board faculty with a "transmission" of some kind coming from outside. Or an analogy to our eyes perceiving "waves" in what we discuss as a light wave spectrum while the ears receive "waves" of another sort. (And the other senses are likewise "tuned" for their function.)

I started to look for another word than "transmission" as that implies a signal being intentionally sent to an object. But maybe there still is a parallel -- TV and radio stations send out signals "to the world" without any knowledge of who might receive them.

Yes we can take this thread back into the direction of the general issue of Epicurean gods as far as anyone would like. We probably need to be revisiting this issue at least once a year anyway lest it get drowned out and forgotten. And what better time of the year than the Christmas season!

It ties back into Anticipations, Images, and many other fascinating aspects of the texts that often get left behind.

Or should we just conclude that images of the gods impacted us and led us back to the topic?

[15.16] Cicero to Cassius[Rome, January, 45 B.C.]

L I expect you must be just a little ashamed of yourself now that this is the third letter that has caught you before you have sent me a single leaf or even a line. But I am not pressing you, for I shall look forward to, or rather insist upon, a longer letter. As for myself, if I always had somebody to trust with them, I should send you as many as three an hour. For it somehow happens, that whenever I write anything to you, you seem to be at my very elbow; and that, not by way of visions of images, as your new friends term them, who believe that even mental visions are conjured up by what Catius calls spectres (for let me remind you that Catius the Insubrian, an Epicurean, who died lately, gives the name of spectres to what the famous Gargettian [Epicurus], and long before that Democritus, called images).

2 But, even supposing that the eye can be struck by these spectres because they run up against it quite of their own accord, how the mind can be so struck is more than I can see. It will be your duty to explain to me, when you arrive here safe and sound, whether the spectre of you is at my command to come up as soon as the whim has taken me to think about you - and not only about you, who always occupy my inmost heart, but suppose I begin thinking about the Isle of Britain, will the image of that wing its way to my consciousness?

3 But of this later on. I am only sounding you now to see in what spirit you take it.

As you know I personally favor the other position but for current purposes the main comment I would make is that whether we believe the theory or not, I presume you would agree that the long discussion of images in Lucretius book 4 and other places in the texts does confirm that the Epicureans did consider "images" to be a physical phenomena of atoms moving through space, and not a matter of simple "thought." Right(?).

And how do you view the Velleius material in "On the Nature of the Gods"?