Posts by Cassius

This seems to be reflected in a way in what Torquatus said in Book One:

"Surely no one recoils from or dislikes or avoids pleasure in itself because it is pleasure, but because great pains come upon those who do not know how to follow pleasure rationally.

Nor again is there any one who loves or pursues or wishes to win pain on its own account, merely because it is pain, but rather because circumstances sometimes occur which compel him to seek some great pleasure at the cost of exertion and pain. To come down to petty details, who among us ever undertakes any toilsome bodily exercise, except in the hope of gaining some advantage from it? Who again would have any right to reproach either a man who desires to be surrounded by pleasure unaccompanied by any annoyance, or another man who shrinks from any pain which is not productive of pleasure?"

Any possibility they trying to save space on the paper as much as possible so writing in continuous lines, but somehow marking where lines started on the manuscript from which they were copying?

So do you have any theory at all as to the use of the red?

We don't make a super big deal about birthdays here at Epicureanfriends but we do mark them in this thread. Today's birthday - Nate - is that of someone who plays an important and highly-appreciated role here, so please check out his timeline as a place to mark it - Nate

Happy Birthday to Nate! Learn more about Nate and say happy birthday on Nate's timeline: Nate

I know it is a lot of work so it never hurts to say "Thank you for all your work Don!!"

YES that works!

Quote from Don

Are looking on mobile or laptop?

I am on a laptop (Albeit with a small screen)

Welcome to Episode 182 of Lucretius Today. This is a podcast dedicated to the poet Lucretius, who wrote "On The Nature of Things," the only complete presentation of Epicurean philosophy left to us from the ancient world. Each week we walk you through the Epicurean texts, and we discuss how Epicurean philosophy can apply to you today. If you find the Epicurean worldview attractive, we invite you to join us in the study of Epicurus at EpicureanFriends.com, where you will find a discussion thread for each of our podcast episodes and many other topics. We are now in the process of a series of podcasts intended to provide a general overview of Epicurean philosophy based on the organizational structure employed by Norman DeWitt in his book "Epicurus and His Philosophy."

This week we continue our discussion of Chapter 14, entitled "The New Virtues."

Chapter XIV - The New Virtues

• Justice
• Honesty
• Faith
• Love of Mankind
• Friendship
• Suavity
• Considerateness
• Hope
• Attitude Toward the Present
• Gratitude
• Gratitude to Teachers
• Gratitude to Nature
• Gratitude To Friends
• Fruits Of Gratitude

Well it opens up but to the book cover. I was hoping to find somewhere a direct link to the page where the particular text appears.

I note that clicking on the "Read More" button on the page you are linking to brings up this:

And I note that you are referencing (for example) 402r for this page.

When I look under items 5 and 6 which might seem to apply, I see only Epictetus. I sure hope they didn't mislabel it and I am somehow on the wrong page.

Very frustrating that it does not seem to allow a link to a particular page. Don how long is the whole document - should we screen clip it and post it in a "general" thread in the Vatican Sayings forum? Even if it has a watermark it would probably still be satisfying to see a representation of the whole thing.

We have two graphic entries for this phrase, but not a real thread devoted to the passage directly. I want to feature this quote on the head of the forum for a while, so this will be the page to which we can link.

Wikipedia -

“Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas” is verse 490 of Book 2 of the "Georgics" (29 BC), by the Latin poet Virgil (70 - 19 BC). It is literally translated as: “Fortunate, who was able to know the causes of things”. ^] Virgil may have had in mind the Roman philosopher Lucretius, of the Epicurean school.

Until we come up with one that is at least as literal as this, we can go with this translation, which preserves almost the exact word order:

Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas

Atque metus omnes, et inexorabile fatum

Subjecit pedibus, strepitumque Acherontis avari

Happy was he who was able to know the causes of things,

And all fear, and inexorable fate, he trampled underfoot, along with the roar of greedy Acheron.

Because the key thoughts or so important, I would prefer not to seem them diluted in the interest of rhyme or poetry, but it would be interesting to see other translations or hear other details about the origin of the passage, so please post them.

Below are the two gallery pictures:

So this is combined Italian and Greek, but found in Italy? I would not have thought that inscriptions would be combined in different languages like that

RegionsSicily, Italy, and the West (IG XIV)Italy, incl. Magna Graecia

IGUR III 1245 IGUR III 1244 IGUR III 1246

[ ]
Italia — Roma — 3rd c. AD — IG XIV 1746 — CIL VI 14672 — GVI 1906

This original text may be better than the footnote as it appears significantly more detailed.

Hope we can eventually find a photo of it.

Not sure yet if this is the correct text:

IGUR III 1245 - PHI Greek Inscriptions

D(is) Cerelliae Fortunatae con❦iugi carissimae cum qua M(anibus) v(ixi) ∙ ann(is) ∙ XL ∙ s(ine) u(lla) q(uerella)

M(arcus) ∙ Antonius ∙ Encolpus ∙ fecit ∙ sibi ∙ et ∙ Antonio ∙ Athenaeo

liberto ∙ suo ∙ karissimo ∙ et ∙ libertis ∙ libertabusque ∙ eorum ∙

et ∙ posteris ∙ excepto ∙ M(arco) ∙ Antonio ∙ Athenione ∙ quem ∙ veto ∙

in ∙ eo ∙ monimento ∙ aditum ∙ habere ∙ neque ∙ iter ∙ ambitum ∙

introitum ∙ ullum ∙ in eo ∙ habere ∙ neque ∙ sepulturae ∙ causa ∙

reliquias ∙ eius ∙ posterorumque ∙ eius ∙ inferri ∙ quod ∙ si quis ∙ ad-

versus ∙ hoc ∙ quis ∙ fecerit ∙ tunc ∙ is ∙ qui ∙ fecerit ∙ poenae ∙ nomine ∙

pontificibus ∙ aut ∙ antescolaris ∙ virginum ∙ (sestertium) ∙ L ∙ m(ilia) ∙ n(ummum) ∙ inferre ∙ de-

bebit ∙ ideo ∙ quia ∙ me ∙ pos ∙ multas ∙ iniurias ∙ parentem ∙ sibi ∙ amnegaverit ∙

et ∙ A(ulo) ∙ Lelio ∙ Apeliti ∙ clienti ∙ karissimo ∙ quem ∙ boluerit ∙ do<n>ationis ∙ causa ∙ sarcofa-

gum ∙ eligat ∙ sibi ∙ opter ∙ quod ∙ in tam ma<g>na ∙ clade ∙ non ∙ me ∙ reliquerit ∙ cuius ∙ beneficia ∙ abeo

This is the text to which it would be interesting to find the Latin, and to scrutinize exactly what he says - including what I would say is probably a good sense of humor!

Quote from Pacatus

Are there (in the classical Epicurean corpus) any similar affirmative statements on: 1) where reasonably possible, to prevent or stop wrongful harm from being done to another (particularly someone outside our immediate friendship circle); and 2) to foster social conditions that are conducive to maximizing the possibility for enjoyment/pleasure by most people (including those that may be on the socioeconomic margins)?

Quote from Pacatus

Note: in case 1) above, the perpetrator of harm would be someone who has not embraced the Epicurean social compact.

I think Joshua's answer hits the high point of quoting the statement from Diogenes of Oinoanda.

I also think that Pacatus you are correct here:

Quote from Pacatus

Of course, one can strive to do both without drawing on any school’s (or religion’s) ethical philosophy – e.g., as a matter of personal conscience.

...because rather than "personal conscience" I think you can substitute "pleasure." It gives a lot of people "pleasure' to want to make life better for "others in general" - even where you don't have direct relationships with those others.

But as to the general drift of your question as to whether there is anything in Epicurus that would provide some kind of general instruction analogous to a "great commission" to do so, I don't think such a thing would exist because that would come too close to a sort of "idealism" that would be inconsistent with much of the rest of the philosophy. But I think here is plenty of reason for thinking the it enhances your own happiness by making life better for others.

And like everything else there is probably a warning needed about making such a goal an end in itself. The general rule remains that nothing is "good in itself" other than pleasure, and pleasure isn't just out there floating in the air, so it seems to me that everything ultimately has to be tied to the question of whether the action will result in specific improvements in pleasure for specific people who are in some kind of relationship of degree of friendship (or at least not an enemy).

Directing your attention to footnote 57 of the below clip (rather than to the highlighted text) contains some interesting and specifically Epicurean text referring to Marcus Encolpus' friends and his position on key Epicurean issues.

It would be interesting to track down the full Latin and maybe find a photo.

This comes from the post here: Names Applied to the Epicureans by Themselves Or Others

Episode 181 of the Lucretius Today Podcast is now available!