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  1. EpicureanFriends - Home of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
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Posts by Cassius

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  • Let's Make a List of 1) Major Causes of the Decline of Epicurean Philosophy after Lucretius and 2) The Obstacles to its Revival Through Today

    • Cassius
    • August 20, 2023 at 4:03 PM

    Thanks Burning lights. We will compile a table and include in one or both lists:

    Quote from burninglights

    I'd imagine that for many if not most modern American Christians, their beliefs about the Christian god are in fact one of their greatest sources of comfort and not distress

    That is no doubt thought to be true in many cases. What to do in response to it is a separate question, and no doubt varies by personal context and goals. It's definitely something that many people believe in their own lives to be the case, and so something to consider in the mix.

  • Episode 188 - "Epicurus And His Philosophy" Part 40 - Chapter 15 - Extension, Submergence, & Revival 03

    • Cassius
    • August 19, 2023 at 11:37 PM

    Wow thanks Don! Pretty disgusting but thanks for finding!

  • Episode 188 - "Epicurus And His Philosophy" Part 40 - Chapter 15 - Extension, Submergence, & Revival 03

    • Cassius
    • August 19, 2023 at 10:23 PM

    On page 354 is a reference to a painting entitled "Triumph of St Augustine," about which DeWitt says:

    A similar motive inspired a painting now in the Palazzo Diamanti in Ferrara, Italy. which is entitled "The Triumph of St. Augustine." To the right of the saint in the upper register appear Aristotle, Plato, Socrates. and Seneca. In the middle register the Virtues are represented as punishing the sinners, among whom appear Epicurus."

    Either this one at wikisource is different, or it is only part of what DeWitt describes, so we need to track this down.

    File:Claudio Coello - The Triumph of St Augustine - WGA5127.jpg - Wikimedia Commons
    commons.wikimedia.org


  • What if Kyriai Doxai was NOT a list?

    • Cassius
    • August 19, 2023 at 7:17 AM

    Again thank you for all the work spent in doing that Don!

  • Episode 186 - "Epicurus And His Philosophy" Part 38 - Chapter 15 - Extension, Submergence, & Revival 01

    • Cassius
    • August 18, 2023 at 5:46 PM

    Joshua is amazing, and his breadth of information is a large part of the reason I take the time to edit each episode so closely. The stuff we are talking about has been talked about for more than 2000 years already, and is truly "evergreen," so I would like to think that these episodes can be listened to for many years to come. If we store them right they will be useful long after this website and HTML are obsolete.

    We about to close out forty some episodes going through the book, and I don't feel like we've nearly exhausted the subject.

    In fact I am more enthusiastic than ever to tackle Cicero's arguments against Epicurus in "On Ends." Those have been out there tearing down Epicurus for 2000 years, and it's time to make an organized effort to make a dent in them. And given the lengthy time we've spent on Lucretius, Epicurus' letters, and now on a book devoted to the whole philosophy, I feel like we have a good group of people positioned to tackle them. And note that I say "group of people" because it really helps to have the input of Martin, Kalosyni, Don (who I hope will occasionally appear) and many others. As we go through books one and two of On Ends we ought to be able to map out and outline the arguments that Cicero was summarizing as the key attacks on Epicurus, and we need all hands on deck to go through them and refute them.

    When we finish book two of On Ends we get (if I recall) to the end of the section specifically devoted to Epicurus, so we will then make an executive decision and decide whether to go over Cicero's attacks on Stoicism (worthwhile but possibly tedious) or switch over to the Epicurean section of "On the Nature of the Gods," which the podcast Don recently linked in another post was talking about.

  • Forum Navigation Map Page

    • Cassius
    • August 18, 2023 at 5:19 PM

    For a full size version in landscape orientation, click here or on the graphic below.

  • Forum Navigation Map Page

    • Cassius
    • August 18, 2023 at 1:37 PM
    Admin Edit

    Admin Edit: For the latest version of this material click here. Click here for earlier versions of the Navigation Map.

    Today we are launching a new feature for the front page of the forum - a "Navigation Map" with clickable boxes to take you to the relevant sections of the forum. This is only a first version and will no doubt go through lots of iterations, but this is intended to be a help for everyone (old and new here at the forum) in finding some of the most important subforums and seeing their relevance to each other.

    The version below is not clickable or well zoomable, but the version on the front page is an SVG graphic that is fully zoomable to any size and remains sharp. Click over to that one and you can zoom in and out to your heart's content.

    It is formatted in "portrait" since most people are using phones and devices of similar format to access the forum. We can probably do a "landscape" version as well if we can figure a way to display the correct one for the correct screen size.


  • Welcome BurningLights!

    • Cassius
    • August 18, 2023 at 11:44 AM

    Thanks for responding and very glad to have you!

  • Welcome BurningLights!

    • Cassius
    • August 18, 2023 at 11:23 AM

    Welcome burninglights !

    Note: In order to minimize spam registrations, all new registrants must respond in this thread to this welcome message within 72 hours of its posting, or their account is subject to deletion. All that is required is a "Hello!" but of course we hope you will introduce yourself -- tell us a little about yourself and what prompted your interest in Epicureanism -- and/or post a question.

    This forum is the place for students of Epicurus to coordinate their studies and work together to promote the philosophy of Epicurus. Please remember that all posting here is subject to our Community Standards / Rules of the Forum our Not Neo-Epicurean, But Epicurean and our Posting Policy statements and associated posts.

    Please understand that the leaders of this forum are well aware that many fans of Epicurus may have sincerely-held views of what Epicurus taught that are incompatible with the purposes and standards of this forum. This forum is dedicated exclusively to the study and support of people who are committed to classical Epicurean views. As a result, this forum is not for people who seek to mix and match some Epicurean views with positions that are inherently inconsistent with the core teachings of Epicurus.

    All of us who are here have arrived at our respect for Epicurus after long journeys through other philosophies, and we do not demand of others what we were not able to do ourselves. Epicurean philosophy is very different from other viewpoints, and it takes time to understand how deep those differences really are. That's why we have membership levels here at the forum which allow for new participants to discuss and develop their own learning, but it's also why we have standards that will lead in some cases to arguments being limited, and even participants being removed, when the purposes of the community require it. Epicurean philosophy is not inherently democratic, or committed to unlimited free speech, or devoted to any other form of organization other than the pursuit by our community of happy living through the principles of Epicurean philosophy.

    One way you can be most assured of your time here being productive is to tell us a little about yourself and personal your background in reading Epicurean texts. It would also be helpful if you could tell us how you found this forum, and any particular areas of interest that you have which would help us make sure that your questions and thoughts are addressed.

    In that regard we have found over the years that there are a number of key texts and references which most all serious students of Epicurus will want to read and evaluate for themselves. Those include the following.

    1. "Epicurus and His Philosophy" by Norman DeWitt
    2. The Biography of Epicurus by Diogenes Laertius. This includes the surviving letters of Epicurus, including those to Herodotus, Pythocles, and Menoeceus.
    3. "On The Nature of Things" - by Lucretius (a poetic abridgement of Epicurus' "On Nature"
    4. "Epicurus on Pleasure" - By Boris Nikolsky
    5. The chapters on Epicurus in Gosling and Taylor's "The Greeks On Pleasure."
    6. Cicero's "On Ends" - Torquatus Section
    7. Cicero's "On The Nature of the Gods" - Velleius Section
    8. The Inscription of Diogenes of Oinoanda - Martin Ferguson Smith translation
    9. A Few Days In Athens" - Frances Wright
    10. Lucian Core Texts on Epicurus: (1) Alexander the Oracle-Monger, (2) Hermotimus
    11. Philodemus "On Methods of Inference" (De Lacy version, including his appendix on relationship of Epicurean canon to Aristotle and other Greeks)
    12. "The Greeks on Pleasure" -Gosling & Taylor Sections on Epicurus, especially the section on katastematic and kinetic pleasure which explains why ultimately this distinction was not of great significance to Epicurus.

    It is by no means essential or required that you have read these texts before participating in the forum, but your understanding of Epicurus will be much enhanced the more of these you have read. Feel free to join in on one or more of our conversation threads under various topics found throughout the forum, where you can to ask questions or to add in any of your insights as you study the Epicurean philosophy.

    And time has also indicated to us that if you can find the time to read one book which will best explain classical Epicurean philosophy, as opposed to most modern "eclectic" interpretations of Epicurus, that book is Norman DeWitt's Epicurus And His Philosophy.

    Click HERE for a full list of our community standards. If you have any questions regarding the usage of the forum or finding info, please post any questions in this thread.

    Welcome to the forum!


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  • Episode 188 - "Epicurus And His Philosophy" Part 40 - Chapter 15 - Extension, Submergence, & Revival 03

    • Cassius
    • August 17, 2023 at 9:43 PM

    Welcome to Episode 188 of Lucretius Today. This is a podcast dedicated to the poet Lucretius, who wrote "On The Nature of Things," the only complete presentation of Epicurean philosophy left to us from the ancient world. Each week we walk you through the Epicurean texts, and we discuss how Epicurean philosophy can apply to you today. If you find the Epicurean worldview attractive, we invite you to join us in the study of Epicurus at EpicureanFriends.com, where you will find a discussion thread for each of our podcast episodes and many other topics. We are now in the process of a series of podcasts intended to provide a general overview of Epicurean philosophy based on the organizational structure employed by Norman DeWitt in his book "Epicurus and His Philosophy."

    This week we continue our discussion of Chapter 15, entitled "Extension, Submergence, and Revival."

    Chapter XV - Extension, Submergence, And Revival

    • The Reaction Against Epicureanism
    • Epicureanism In The Early Empire
    • Plutarch, Anti-Epicurean
    • Epicureanism In The Graeco-Roman World
    • Third And Fourth Centuries
    • Epicureanism In the Middle Ages
    • The Epicurean Revival

  • Episode 187 - "Epicurus And His Philosophy" Part 39 - Chapter 15 - Extension, Submergence, & Revival 02

    • Cassius
    • August 17, 2023 at 9:41 PM

    Episode 187 of the Lucretius Today Podcast is now available!

  • Forum Outage of August 17, 2023

    • Cassius
    • August 17, 2023 at 10:03 AM

    I have added another address that hopefully is easy to remember in case of outage.

    Anytime we have an outage first try "backup.epicureanfriends.com" and that should get you to the same page for the latest update information.

    Given that backup.epicureanfriends.com is tied to the same domain, however, and might be subject to the same problem as the main website, you can always resort to cassiusamicus.com which is hosted on completely separate servers.

    New post with additional thoughts on backup platforms:

    Post

    RE: Social Media - Instant Messaging (Telegram, Matrix, Threema)

    This subject comes to mind again due to our recent outage on 8/17/23.

    The big issues in choosing an alternate communication platform is something that is actually used by a significant number of people. If people don't have the platform loaded on their telephone then they won't get notifications, and it will take much longer to notify people of outages and get back in communication if something significant takes down the forum for more than a few hours.

    I'd be happy to hear latest thoughts from…
    Cassius
    August 17, 2023 at 10:03 AM
  • Social Media - Instant Messaging (Telegram, Matrix, Threema)

    • Cassius
    • August 17, 2023 at 10:03 AM

    This subject comes to mind again due to our recent outage on 8/17/23.

    The big issues in choosing an alternate communication platform is something that is actually used by a significant number of people. If people don't have the platform loaded on their telephone then they won't get notifications, and it will take much longer to notify people of outages and get back in communication if something significant takes down the forum for more than a few hours.

    I'd be happy to hear latest thoughts from anyone but especially from EricR , TauPhi, Cleveland Okie, and others who are into the FOSS options. I don't want to tie us to a major platform where we are subject to content-based censorship, even for backup communications. Right now that doesn't seem to be an issue at all, and hopefully it will never be, but let's plan for the future.

    Each of the options discussed in this subforum is probably viable and workable, but none stand out to me as the obvious choice. For purposes of backup communication and regrouping if the server suffers a catastrophic failure, it's more important to be easy to remember and easy to get to and easy to use than it is to be super-secret or encrypted. For those who know what it is I am tempted to set up an IRC channel as the easiest and most flexible, but there are many options, including some kind of public xmpp location, which is the protocol which our friend stpeter helped popularize.

    So it seems to me that the main criteria for a backup communication platform would include:

    1. Necessary: Free / Open Source
    2. Necessary: Easy to remember web address (we can set up a domain to point there too)
    3. Necessary: Quick and easy to sign up and use without using a dedicated app
    4. Necessary: Allows basic moderation (keeps a list of users and potentially allows them to save an email which could be used as an emergency contact).
    5. Necessary: Very simple and does not have a lot of complicated features (unlike Matrix)
    6. Necessary: Not a full forum or replacement for Epicureanfriends but just a place to hold a running exchange of users where info about outages etc can be posted.
    7. Necessary: Not video or audio - chat only (rules out zoom and jitsi etc)
    8. Necessary: Not a high profile service run by google or facebook or twitter or reasonably likely to be under the direct control of a state-sponsored security agency. Every service is subject to that problem, but some more than others, and the more features that a service offers while still being "free" the more it is likely that the security of communications and user data is compromised. Related to this would be - not a service aligned with an overt political or religious agenda (which would also make it more likely to be subject to attack or compromise).
    9. Desirable but not necessary: Some ability to provide phone notification to users of new messages. This is the main thing that apps like Telegram and Whatsapp offer, but the problems that come with this probably make it preferable to have an easy simple web domain that can be remembered so everyone knows "If Epicureanfriends is down all I do is go here _______"


    Another alternative is a simple "mailing list manager" where people can register their emergency contact email addresses, and then when we have a problem we can email that group. But if we go that route we would want some ability for members of the group to contact each other, in case is not just with the server being indisposed but with Cassius himself being indisposed!

  • PD07 - Best Translation of PD07 To Feature At EpicureanFriends.com

    • Cassius
    • August 17, 2023 at 9:32 AM

    Strodach option now added to the poll.

  • Forum Outage of August 17, 2023

    • Cassius
    • August 17, 2023 at 9:09 AM

    We have just returned from a several hour outage this morning. It appears that little or nothing has been lost from recent postings, but if you are aware of anything lost or other issues please post here.

    As per the info in the right-hand panel, our first line of backup is checking in at http://www.cassiusamicus.com where I will post updates as to what is going on and suggestions for places to talk while the main site is down.

    We need further backup channels and I will post further about ideas on that.

    Sorry for the absence but glad to be back!

  • The Real Impact of Epicurus saying the celestial bodies weren't gods!

    • Cassius
    • August 16, 2023 at 5:30 PM

    Thanks for the link and yes that part is great!

    He's reinforcing in my mind how useful a resource Cicero is in both On the Nature of the Gods and On Ends too.

    I am really looking forward to going through both in detail. I think going through On Ends is going to clarify in our minds a lot of the things we have been discussing as to what a lot of these debates were about.

    Just like that podcast is saying Cicero, allows us to get into the minds of the 2000 year old debaters and in doing so I think we will see a lot that we don't currently see.

  • New Interview on the work on the scrolls

    • Cassius
    • August 16, 2023 at 10:06 AM

    Ha - Their "over the top" video -

  • New Interview on the work on the scrolls

    • Cassius
    • August 16, 2023 at 10:04 AM

    List of Links from that page:


    I would like to read the works that have been recovered from the scrolls so far, where I can I find them?

    Most are by Philodemus. This is a list of English translations we have found so far:

    • Philodemus: On Anger. (2020), David Armstrong & Michael McOsker. SBL. ISBN 1628372699
    • Philodemus: On Death. (2009), W. Benjamin Henry. SBL. ISBN 1-58983-446-1
    • Philodemus: On Frank Criticism. (1998), David Konstan, Diskin Clay, Clarence, E. Glad. SBL. ISBN 1-58983-292-2
    • Philodemus, On Piety, Part 1. (1996). Critical Text with Commentary by Dirk Obbink. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-815008-3
    • Philodemus, On Poems, Book 1. (2001). Edited with Introduction, Translation, and Commentary by Richard Janko. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-815041-5
    • Philodemus, On Poems, Book 2, with the fragments of Heracleodorus and Pausimachus. (2020). Edited with Introduction, Translation, and Commentary by Richard Janko. Oxford University Press. ISBN 9780198835080
    • Philodemus, On Poems, Books 3-4, with the Fragments of Aristotle, On Poets. (2010). Edited with Introduction, Translation, and Commentary by Richard Janko. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-957207-0
    • Philodemus, On Property Management. (2013), Voula Tsouna. SBL. ISBN 1-58983-667-7
    • Philodemus, On Rhetoric Books 1 and 2: Translation and Exegetical Essays. (2005). Clive Chandler (editor). Routledge. ISBN 0-415-97611-1
    • David Sider, (1997), The Epigrams of Philodemos. Introduction, Text, and Commentary. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-509982-6
    • Philodemus: On Methods of Inference. 2nd edition. (1978). Phillip Howard De Lacy, Estelle Allen De Lacy. Bibliopolis.
  • New Interview on the work on the scrolls

    • Cassius
    • August 16, 2023 at 10:01 AM

    I think we've probably posted this link before, but this is the page for the "Vesuvius Challenge" mentioned in the video.

    Vesuvius Challenge
    A $1,000,000+ machine learning and computer vision competition
    scrollprize.org

    It's also interesting that starting around 22 minutes in the video Dr Seales says that a part of his interest is his desire to uncover early Christian material since he is a Christian himself. I wonder if he's read "St Paul and Epicurus." ;)

  • New Interview on the work on the scrolls

    • Cassius
    • August 16, 2023 at 9:12 AM

    Thank you again AaronSF! People keep talking about progress over the years, but it seems progress is disappointingly slow. It helps all of us to keep up with the latest news on this issue. (This is from March 16, 2023)

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Finding Things At EpicureanFriends.com

What's the best strategy for finding things on EpicureanFriends.com? Here's a suggested search strategy:

  • First, familiarize yourself with the list of forums. The best way to find threads related to a particular topic is to look in the relevant forum. Over the years most people have tried to start threads according to forum topic, and we regularly move threads from our "general discussion" area over to forums with more descriptive titles.
  • Use the "Search" facility at the top right of every page. Note that the search box asks you what section of the forum you'd like to search. If you don't know, select "Everywhere." Also check the "Search Assistance" page.
  • Use the "Tag" facility, starting with the "Key Tags By Topic" in the right hand navigation pane, or using the "Search By Tag" page, or the "Tag Overview" page which contains a list of all tags alphabetically. We curate the available tags to keep them to a manageable number that is descriptive of frequently-searched topics.

Frequently Used Forums

  • Frequently Asked / Introductory Questions
  • News And Announcements
  • Lucretius Today Podcast
  • Physics (The Nature of the Universe)
  • Canonics (The Tests Of Truth)
  • Ethics (How To Live)
  • Against Determinism
  • Against Skepticism
  • The "Meaning of Life" Question
  • Uncategorized Discussion
  • Comparisons With Other Philosophies
  • Historical Figures
  • Ancient Texts
  • Decline of The Ancient Epicurean Age
  • Unsolved Questions of Epicurean History
  • Welcome New Participants
  • Events - Activism - Outreach
  • Full Forum List

Latest Posts

  • "Faith" And Confidence In Epicurean Philosophy

    Cassius August 27, 2025 at 10:09 AM
  • AI Use In Latin Inscription Research

    Don August 27, 2025 at 6:28 AM
  • A Lucretius Today AI Experiment: AI Summaries Of Two Lucretius Today Podcast Episodes

    Don August 26, 2025 at 7:23 PM
  • Episode 295 - TD25 - Plutarch's Absurd Interpretation of Epicurean Absence of Pain

    Bryan August 26, 2025 at 4:30 PM
  • Tsouna's On Choices and Avoidances

    Cassius August 26, 2025 at 2:56 PM
  • What is Virtue and what aspects of Virtue does an Epicurean cultivate?

    Cassius August 26, 2025 at 1:55 PM
  • "Artificial Intelligence And Epicurean Philosophy" Subforum

    Cassius August 26, 2025 at 10:35 AM
  • EpicureanFriends Provisional AI Posting Policies

    Cassius August 26, 2025 at 10:31 AM
  • Alexa in the Garden of Epicurus

    Rolf August 26, 2025 at 9:02 AM
  • Did Democritus Think That Atoms Can Be Alive?

    TauPhi August 25, 2025 at 7:08 PM

Frequently Used Tags

In addition to posting in the appropriate forums, participants are encouraged to reference the following tags in their posts:

  • #Physics
    • #Atoms
    • #Gods
    • #Images
    • #Infinity
    • #Eternality
    • #Life
    • #Death
  • #Canonics
    • #Knowledge
    • #Scepticism
  • #Ethics

    • #Pleasure
    • #Pain
    • #Engagement
    • #EpicureanLiving
    • #Friendship
    • #Happiness
    • #Virtue
      • #Justice



Click Here To Search All Tags

To Suggest Additions To This List Click Here

EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy

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