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20th of May - Zoom Gathering Philosophy Discussion

  • Kalosyni
  • May 14, 2023 at 11:46 AM
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  • Kalosyni
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    • May 14, 2023 at 11:46 AM
    • #1

    Hi Everyone, This next Saturday at 8pm ET is our 20th Celebration. This is open to Level 3 members.

    If you are not yet at Level 3 but are interested, you can message me to find out how to become a Level 3 member.

    We will meet via Zoom to greet one another and discuss all the latest forum threads. And as usual we will have our short reading for the commemoration of Epicurus. Looking forward to seeing you then. :)

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    • May 15, 2023 at 9:47 AM
    • #2

    Great picture.

    We mentioned the "ships in harbor are safe but that's not what ships are for..." metaphor in this past week's podcast. I like the images of ships at any stage, even sitting still with no sailors on them, but I am also hoping we can find some that are an even better analogy - showing ships doing what ships do - sailing full speed ahead! Here's one:

    ;)

  • Kalosyni May 15, 2023 at 9:53 AM

    Changed the title of the thread from “20th of May Zoom Gathering and Philosophy Discussion” to “20th of May - Zoom Gathering Philosophy Discussion”.
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    • May 20, 2023 at 11:49 AM
    • #3

    Happy Twentieth of May. Look forward to seeing you tonight.

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    Don
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    • May 20, 2023 at 12:51 PM
    • #4

    ΕΥΦΟΣΥΝΗΝ ΕΙΚΑΔΑ!

    Euphrosynen Eikada!

    (I wish you) A Merry 20th!

    (I think I got the grammar right :) )

    As an aside, I always like to go back to Philodemus's epigram inviting Piso to the 20th celebration in Herculaneum on this day:

    αὔριον εἰς λιτήν σε καλιάδα, φίλτατε Πείσων,

    ἐξ ἐνάτης ἕλκει μουσοφιλὴς ἕταρος,

    εἰκάδα δειπνίζων ἐνιαύσιον: εἰ δ᾽ ἀπολείψεις

    οὔθατα καὶ Βρομίου χιογενῆ πρόποσιν,

    ἀλλ᾽ ἑτάρους ὄψει παναληθέας, ἀλλ᾽ ἐπακούσῃ

    Φαιήκων γαίης πουλὺ μελιχρότερα:

    ἢν δέ ποτε στρέψῃς καὶ ἐς ἡμέας ὄμματα, Πείσων,

    ἄξομεν ἐκ λιτῆς εἰκάδα πιοτέρην. (Source)

    To-morrow, dearest Piso, your friend, beloved by the Muses, who keeps our annual feast of the twentieth * invites you to come after the ninth hour to his simple cottage. If you miss udders and draughts of Chian wine, you will see at least sincere friends and you will hear things far sweeter than the land of the Phaeacians. But if you ever cast your eyes on me, Piso, we shall celebrate the twentieth richly instead of simply. (Source)

    I like the last line especially but find it has some interesting grammar and vocabulary:

    ἄξομεν ἐκ λιτῆς εἰκάδα πιοτέρην

    We're going into the weeds, but for those interested, stick with me ^^

    ἄξομεν = "We will celebrate; We will observe the date..." (axomen) Also carries the connotation of "to keep in memory"

    εἰκάδα = the 20th (day of the month) (eikada)

    πιοτέρην = "richly" This is a poetic form of πίων (pion) which is related to "fat" which was always related to richness and being unctuous in the ancient world. Also applid metaphorically to "rich" r

    ἐκ λιτῆς = ἐκ is a preposition; λιτῆς is frugally, inexpensively, simply. The preposition has MANY definitions within different context. The one most translators take here is "instead of" BUT its basic definition is "out of." So, I would tend to translate this line:

    "Out of simplicity, we will celebrate richly."

    Philodemus is going through the whole poem saying is NOT going to have fancy wine or fancy food at Philodemus's 20th party. So, it makes more sense to me for him to end by saying that even though our simple fare will not appear "rich" to you, we will celebrate "richly" because you will be among friends enjoying some simple food and decent wine.

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    Don
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    • May 20, 2023 at 2:19 PM
    • #5

    Trivia:

    May 20 is World Bee Day

    6 surprising things about bees on World Bee Day | CNN
    edition.cnn.com

    which dovetails nicely with the Philodemus poem since it includes the great little word:

    μελιχρότερα (melichrotera) "honey-sweetened" (from μελι "honey")

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    • May 20, 2023 at 6:30 PM
    • #6

    I posted number 4 over in Facebook in honor of the 20th and Elli responded:

    "ΕΥΦΡΟΣΥΝΗΝ" is the right greek word, and not "YΦΟΣΥΝΗΝ". ΕΥΦΡΟΣΥΝΗΝ means also the deep pleasure.🙂

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    Don
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    • May 20, 2023 at 7:45 PM
    • #7
    Quote from Cassius

    I posted number 4 over in Facebook in honor of the 20th and Elli responded:

    "ΕΥΦΡΟΣΥΝΗΝ" is the right greek word, and not "YΦΟΣΥΝΗΝ". ΕΥΦΡΟΣΥΝΗΝ means also the deep pleasure.🙂

    You left off the first E on ΕΥΦΡΟΣΥΝΗΝ on your Facebook post. That makes it misspelled over there

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    Don
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    • May 20, 2023 at 10:15 PM
    • #8
    Quote from Don
    Quote from Cassius

    I posted number 4 over in Facebook in honor of the 20th and Elli responded:

    "ΕΥΦΡΟΣΥΝΗΝ" is the right greek word, and not "YΦΟΣΥΝΗΝ". ΕΥΦΡΟΣΥΝΗΝ means also the deep pleasure.🙂

    You left off the first E on ΕΥΦΡΟΣΥΝΗΝ on your Facebook post. That makes it misspelled over there

    You also misspelled Epixureanfriends.com at the Facebook post

    PS. Oh! and the copied post on Facebook is truncated.. it ends with Philo which should have been Philodemus. It's missing all of:

    Quote
    demus's 20th party. So, it makes more sense to me for him to end by saying that even though our simple fare will not appear "rich" to you, we will celebrate "richly" because you will be among friends enjoying some simple food and decent wine.

    It might have been better just to put the beginning and then a link. I'm flattered that you liked the post, Cassius , but that Facebook re-post is a mess! =O

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    • May 21, 2023 at 6:39 AM
    • #9

    Kind of late but I will fix now - and learn my lesson about posting from my phone !

    I think it's fixed now -- https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…48132835235625/

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    • May 21, 2023 at 9:00 AM
    • #10

    More commentary from Elli:

    Elli PensaAdmin
    Top contributor

    # Πείσων, πείσομεν # (pron. Peison, peisomen) : And this means that we shall persuade the man who have the name that means "I shall persuade". 😉

    Philodemus's guest named "Peison", and his name is rooted from the Greek verb "πείθω" that in the future tense is "πείσω", ["I shall persuade"] and that means when I'm capable to persuade, I have already been convinced. And that's IMO the whole point in the invitation by Philodemus to Peison: "η πειθώ" [the persuation].
    Philodemus says to Peison: If you have already been convinced you are capable enough to persuade. 😉
    This means also that Philodemus, in the basis of our philosophy, has been convinced that is capable enough to persuade anyone.
    In a few words Philodemus in his invitation to Peison says:

    "Dear friend Peison, we epicureans invite you to our banquet due to memorable day for Epicurus of 20th, though we shall not have our banquet in a golden palace with the rare wine of the island of Chios and a meal with rare foods. However, you shall hear us like Odysseus who spoke with sweet words and as Demodocus who played sweet melodies, and received by Phaeacians additional meat than Odysseus. But Odysseus’ words were the true words by a great Realist of life and not simply as a musician. Because we Epicureans with our philosophy will persuade you - when you turn your gaze to us (carefully) - i.e. when you understand with full attention the correct meaning of Epicurean philosophy, then you will realize that life itself is not frugal or simple but it is rich with deep pleasures".

    Indeed, these words in the invitation by Philodemus is clear enough for someone to realize that Philodemus was the "μέγα φρονών" [mega phronon] which means : A proud and clever/wise man like a Lion i.e. proud for himself and his personality and not due to external things (see ES 45). Philodemus was the genuine epicurean man, since in his mind had the genuine figure of the Hellene Odysseus who - above all - was the great Realist of life! 😉
    For this reason, IMO Philodemus points out to Peison the myth with Odysseus and Phaeacians. According to Homer the island of Phaeacians was called «Scheria», and this island was the last station of Odysseus' journey in life. It was when Odysseus' raft drifted to the island where the king Alcinous of the Phaeacians reigned. At the last stop of Odysseus journey the hospitality was unparalleled and the reception worthy of a renown warrior of life. Today's Scheria is Corfu and it is fully lives up to the Homeric descriptions of a green island with lots of water (and Corfu is the island of my origin). 🙂
    In conclusion and as the great philosopher Nietzsche points it out that: in this island of Phaeacians Odysseus said goodbye to the princess Nausicaa (i.e the life itself) deeply in love i.e. Odysseus lived his life full of adventures and with deep pleasures (ΕΥΦΡΟΣΥΝΗΝ), and not like the idealist Socrates who said goodbye to life deeply disgusted, and as we read in his Apology last words that life, for Socrates, was an illness. 😛

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    Don
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    • May 21, 2023 at 9:22 AM
    • #11

    Just to be clear, Philodemus's invitation was addressed to his patron, owner of the "Villa of the Papyri" in Herculaneum, Lucius Calpurnius Piso Caesoninus (101 BC – c. 43 BC).

    Lucius Calpurnius Piso Caesoninus (consul 58 BC) - Wikipedia

    There is some debate of whether Piso himself was Epicurean or not. I find it persuasive that he was since Philodemus used 'ΕΤΑΡΟΣ in line 2 to refer to Piso. The word means not just friend in ancient Greek but "comrade, companion, follower of a chief 'comrade in arms." That seems to me to imply they were "companions" in the fellowship of Epicurus.

    Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, ἑταῖρ-ος

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