I like this idea. It took me a few moments to figure out who "D.L." is, it might not hurt to give the full name on the first citation.

Excellent list. Understanding how we come to our conclusions is necessary in order to have certainty about them.

“οὑχὶ καὶ [διαφέρει] τοῦ φανεροῦ Tάφανὲς; καὶ παρακρούειν ἡμᾶς Ἔχουσι σθεναρῶς, ἐπειδὴ τὰ παρ' ἡμῖν ζῷα [παραφυλάττοντες] εἶναι φθαρτὰ, τοὺς θεοὺς ἀφθάρτους ὑπάρχειν λέγομεν; Kαὶ πάντων γενητῶν καὶ φθρτῶν ὄντων, τὰς τῶν ὀλων ἀρχὰς ἀγενήτους εἶναι καὶ ἀφθάρτους [ἀξιοῦμεν]; Φιλοδήμου Περὶ Cημείων XX.20-30

Isn’t the invisible [different] from the visible? Can’t they strongly slap us aside, because [while observing] that the living things around us are destructible, we say that the gods are indestructible? And although all things are created and destructible, [we think] that the elements of all things are uncreated and indestructible?”

Philodemus quoting Bromius (Cf. De Lacy “On Methods of Inference” pg. 69-70)

With the Physics, the Ethics and above all with the usage of CANON/senses/feelings along with all of our observations that are testified in the reality with the phenomena as they proceed... we the epicureans of our era and in the 21st century, we say boldly :

"Tους θεούς ουδ' υπάρχειν λέγομεν".

And this means, we say that gods do not exist!

We do not need any image of Gods to be prudent, fair and honest, for living pleasantly. The PD 5 is clear.

The only we need is to elimante our painful feelings of loneliness, depression, and the overconsumption, for creating more friendly societies.

Religions, political, and eonomical ideologies do not unite us in our societies. Only friendship with our frank criticism, and knowledges that are based on the help/benefit of scienctific findings and all measured through senses and feelings.

My dear friend Bryan, good day.

Sorry, I have an objection for the above text by Philodemus, he tries to prove with a similarity with atoms and void the existence of gods and in the basis of "questions". This reminds me, the cunning of the methodology of dialectics by Socrates and Plato and specifically on the issue of science.

Please see the picture!

Those "intuitive apprehensions of the mind" is the imagined images, patterns, and motives that some epicureans like Philodemus, added after Epicurus era. This was all that food of philosophies by Hegel, Kant and Spinoza. The food that does not eliminate our hunger where is the false and where is the right.

They tried to connect the reality with the imagination of patterns. And the only they tried to do is to unite the rationalism with the empiricism,, but the result was that led the humanity in WARS.

From a latest work of my epicurean friend Dimitris Altas, that is a Dr. cardiologist.

Kant and Spinoza believed that starting from some fundamental principles such as mathematical axioms and logical principles along with innate ideas and only with "correct reason" one could acquire all possible Knowledge! In fact, Spinoza's rationality is absolute! He claims that human thought is capable of knowing God perfectly!

That is, it supports the logical approach of the metaphysical/supernatural. Nevertheless, Hegel argued that only with "correct reason" was it not only possible to understand human history, but also to predict its future course! This idea moved Karl Marx, who decided to use Hegel's Philosophy as a basis for his own theory, removing the metaphysical element with controversial results after maintaining its metaphysical determinism. Not even with Hegel's determinism did the shirt has been filled of what methodology we have to use for finding right conclusions. This shirt was still empty!

In the end, Immanuel Kant decided that if we found a way to combine Rationalism with Empiricism, there will be no end! But the unification of Empiricism with Rationalism seemed a bit like the unification of quantum mechanics with the theory of relativity! It may seem obvious to you, but in the field of Philosophy it is not! Correct calculus no longer had to be umbilical, but to analyze data from the experiences. But how does the raw data of the senses become experiences? Kant would have saved enough gray matter if he had been focused to the Epicurean Canon! Obviously, he did not do that! The menu may no longer have innate Ideas, but it had pre-installed innate molds, to which the mind adapted the raw data of the senses so that the right reason could process with them! He called the molds supervisions and categories in the context of a rather difficult and vague explanation with several metaphysical implications. Kant is considered the most important representative of German Philosophy who has always remained an Idealist, except Nietzsche.

Thank you, Elli, for your response. I thank you also for your past comments on TO AΦΘΑΡΤΟΝ with its meaning of "that which is not in touch" which is good to keep in mind along with the connotations of "that which is self-sufficient" and "independent."

As we know, Epicurus reminded the people of his day not to add to their natural conceptions of gods, and to preserve them in the state "as the typical idea of a god is (mentally/naturally) engraved, ὡς ἡ κοινὴ τοῦ θεοῦ Nόησις ὑπεγράφη (X123b)." We have no ability to deny the existence of the conception, or the gods themselves, because "the knowledge of them is clear, ἐναργὴς δέ ἐστιν αὐτῶν ἡ Γνῶσις.” Which of course it is. Telling all the people around the world that the gods do not exist is like telling people that they themselves do not feel hunger or pain. They feel it, they know it. For an atheist to be made, a person must accept arguments that fight against their natural anticipations of the gods (or they assume the additional cultural ideas regarding the gods are the same as their anticipations, judge both to be ridiculous, and deny both together) – just as for a religious person to be made, they must accept additional ideas along with their natural anticipations.

Regarding the use of "intuitive apprehensions of the mind" ἡ φανταστικὴ ἐπιβολὴ τῆς διανοίας, we do have the use by Epicurus in KD24 and ΔΛ X51. “The entire graphic perception of the mind” “the full pictorial focus of the mind” “the complete visual attention of the mind.” Because all thought is based upon images, the use of φανταστική (‘graphic’) here is only further explaining the process of mental focus; the whole phrase is therefore equivalent to ἡ ἐπιβολή τῆς διανοίας (‘the perception of the mind’) alone, which Lucretius translates (2.740) as animī iniectus ‘a casting of mental energy’ or ‘a throwing out of the attention.’ Instead of using the modern analogy of ‘focusing’ the mind (as though the mind were something like a camera), Ἐπίκουρος and Lucretius use the analogy of ‘throwing’ or ‘casting’ the mind (as though the mind were something like a net). Put simply, animī iniectus and ἡ επιβολή τῆς διανοίας are equivalent to our modern use of ‘attention.'

Our friend Bryan has correctly said: <<Ἐπίκουρος and Lucretius use the analogy of ‘throwing’ or ‘casting’ the mind (as though the mind were something like a net). Put simply, animī iniectus and ἡ επιβολή τῆς διανοίας are equivalent to our modern use of ‘attention.'>>

Wow, yes, that’s it ! This is the networks of the brain (please see the picture).

Who is Epicurus and Lucretius ? Nobody...so bury both of them inside the ground, and as deep as you can.

And that is because, here (in the picture) is the true knowledge by "holy" men who the only thing want from us is to keep the whole of our attention, and keeping as such, through repeated practice, through repeated practice, through repeated practice.

1st dogma: God is so Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent for he created not only you, but the whole Universe!

2nd dogma: There is an afterlife in heavens. In heavens you will eliminate your hunger and thirst for Justice.

The "holy" men say: “Let the little children come to me. Don’t stop them, because the kingdom of God belongs to people who are like these Children".

Children that will remain till the end of their life as children who are afraid in the Darkness!

<<Life is sweet and death is darkness>> as a greek poet said!

Sweet in greek language is synonym with the word <<ηδύς>> that means pleasant!

Those "holy" men... what are they fighting against? The sweetness of life i.e. the pleasure and the life itself!

So, these children that remain children till the end of their life, are living in pain and are dying in pains.

Sorry, being Hellene, I piss upon the graves of the emperors CONSTANTINE, THEODOSIUS, EUDOXIA and LEO III, the Isaurian that lived in the byzantine era!

<<We modern Greeks resemble our ancient ancestors only in form. But the mass, this m the physicists talk about, is utterly Jewish. And the space, the spatium or this s the physicists talk about, within which the de-Hellenisation of the Greeks took place, is Christian Byzantium. And the time, the tempus or the t the physicists talk about, within whose duration the process of Jew-ification of the Greeks took place, stretches from the time of Emperor Theodosius until this very day. Theodosius destroyed temples, ravaged ancient statues, closed down stadiums, theatres, Greek schools. All the sources that were the lifestream of the Hellenic way of life. This is why he is remembered as “the Great”. Which is the way his predecessor, Constantine, is also remembered. The Caesar who murdered his own wife and son. And they were first called “Great” by those who also called “Great” the Emperors Athanasius, Basil and all their ilk. Destroyers, forgers, vandals of the Hellenic idea. But there is another voice, persistently whispering from the shadows, that all the brutalities the Christians inflicted upon the Greeks mean nothing in the end for those that did not become Jewish-Greeks but remained Hellenic-Greeks. It rises from a distant place and is only heard by a few:

Just because we tore their statues down, (along with the inscription by Diogenis of Oinoanda)

and cast them from their temples, does not mean that the gods are dead.

This is the poet Cavafy, dear reader, not some miser. Not some invented god. And the poem is called Ionian. It is not called Cherubicon. The dissolution and extinguishing of the classical Greek by Jewish-minded Christians lasted from the time of Theodosius until the time of Empress Eudoxia. Up to 843AD, with the official restitution of the icons. This holiday in the Orthodox calendar is celebrated annually since then, at the beginning of Spring! It is a grandiose celebration attended by state officials and foreign dignitaries. Viewed from a positive perspective, it symbolizes the triumph of Christianity. But viewed from its negative perspective, it represents the utter destruction of everything Greek. It is the tombstone of the Hellenic idea.

The last stand of the moderate “Greek” against the Asian monstrosity was through Leo III, the Isaurian. He got up one morning and realized that half the population of the empire had taken up the cloth and were having a splendid time. Then, like Jesus at the temple, he began what came to be known as the Iconomachy. That story reached its sad conclusion with the light defeated and darkness triumphant. With the Sunday of Orthodoxy and the appearance of the modern Greek identity. So Greeks only by name and superficially. And Jews to the bone, the blood, the heart, the intestines and the bile. Herein lies the key, the reason and the cause of the national schizophrenia>>.

Liantinis Dimitris book "Gemma"

Shame on you, my ex-president of our fake Democracy!!!

https://www.facebook.com/group…rmalink/3581730511875883/

Bryan my friend, you are my inspiration for this: https://www.facebook.com/group…rmalink/3628316807217253/

Quote

Bryan said : Telling all the people around the world that the gods do not exist is like telling people that they themselves do not feel hunger or pain. They feel it, they know it.

Telling people not for the existence of gods actually. Telling them of how usefull are their preconceptions or anticipations of gods in their daily life. Do gods eliminate their hunger and thirst? Because hunger and thirst need heads and mouths. Nobody saw in the Greek Agora or the Roman Praetorium people judging without heads and speaking without mouths!

Thank you Elli, for your excellent response and wise words. Liantinis correctly perceived the situation, as sad as it is, and was brave enough to report what he saw.

ἐναργὲς δὲ Cημεῖον τοῦ μηδὲν δύνασθαι τοὺς θεοὺς

πρὸς τὸ ἀπερύκειν τἀδικήματα

τὰ Ἰουδαίων καὶ Αἰγυπτίων ἔθη

πάντων γὰρ ὄντες δεισιδαιμονέστατοι

πάντων εἰσὶ μιαρώτατοι

a clear Indication of the inability of the gods

in regards to the prevention of wrongdoings

is provided by the Jews and Egyptians

because of all people they are the most superstitious and

of all people they are the most stained with blood.

Διογένης ὁ Οἰνοανδεύς (Diogenes Oinoanda) · NF 126 III

I am happy that you also agree that ἡ επιβολή τῆς διανοίας is best understood as 'attention.' This certainly simplifies a point in our philosophy which has unnecessarily caused confusion historically.