1. New
  2. Home
    1. Get Started - Activities
    2. Posting Policies
    3. Community Standards
    4. Terms of Use
    5. Moderator Team
    6. Member Announcements
    7. Site Map
    8. Quizzes
    9. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    10. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  3. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  4. Forum
    1. New Activity
    2. New Threads
    3. Welcome
    4. General Discussion
    5. Featured
    6. Activism
    7. Shortcuts
    8. Dashboard
    9. Full Forum List
    10. Level 3+
    11. Most Discussed
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  • Login
  • Register
  • Search
This Thread
  • Everywhere
  • This Thread
  • This Forum
  • Forum
  • Articles
  • Blog Articles
  • Files
  • Gallery
  • Events
  • Pages
  • Wiki
  • Help
  • FAQ
  • More Options

Welcome To EpicureanFriends.com!

"Remember that you are mortal, and you have a limited time to live, and in devoting yourself to discussion of the nature of time and eternity you have seen things that have been, are now, and are to come."

Sign In Now
or
Register a new account
  1. New
  2. Home
    1. Get Started - Activities
    2. Posting Policies
    3. Community Standards
    4. Terms of Use
    5. Moderator Team
    6. Member Announcements
    7. Site Map
    8. Quizzes
    9. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    10. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  3. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  4. Forum
    1. New Activity
    2. New Threads
    3. Welcome
    4. General Discussion
    5. Featured
    6. Activism
    7. Shortcuts
    8. Dashboard
    9. Full Forum List
    10. Level 3+
    11. Most Discussed
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  1. New
  2. Home
    1. Get Started - Activities
    2. Posting Policies
    3. Community Standards
    4. Terms of Use
    5. Moderator Team
    6. Member Announcements
    7. Site Map
    8. Quizzes
    9. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    10. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  3. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  4. Forum
    1. New Activity
    2. New Threads
    3. Welcome
    4. General Discussion
    5. Featured
    6. Activism
    7. Shortcuts
    8. Dashboard
    9. Full Forum List
    10. Level 3+
    11. Most Discussed
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  1. EpicureanFriends - Home of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Forum
  3. General Discussion - Start Here
  4. General Discussion
  • Sidebar
  • Sidebar

Walking in the Garden

  • Matt
  • September 2, 2020 at 10:57 AM
  • Go to last post
Regularly Checking In On A Small Screen Device? Bookmark THIS page!
  • Matt
    03 - Member
    Points
    2,976
    Posts
    426
    Quizzes
    4
    Quiz rate
    88.9 %
    • September 2, 2020 at 10:57 AM
    • #1

    What is it like to have a taste of Epicurean Philosophy in a world saturated in idealism and superstition? It's lucidity. It's freedom.

    Among the older venerable members of this group some remember my fire and zeal for Epicurus early on after years of being saturated in idealism and mystical philosophy. I was on fire because I was freed from illusion. Battle lines were drawn and I went headlong into battle against Stoics, charlatans and religionists. My people were the people of the Garden and the walls of the Garden could not be torn down.

    But the idealistic philosophies of my past still haunted me, religious guilt and social pressure pulled me back. Doubt clouded my mind and I was thrust back into my old ways and I left the Garden. But the Principal Doctrines stuck with me. I over the last few years have found myself being an apologist for the specifically Epicurean way of life. Though I thought I had abandoned it and even waged war against it.

    There is a stirring in me to find pleasure, my pleasure, among like minded people. To battle superstition.

    Do any of you have stories or testimonies about the internal battles with religious guilt, former philosophies etc?

  • Joshua
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    14,954
    Posts
    1,894
    Quizzes
    3
    Quiz rate
    95.8 %
    • September 2, 2020 at 2:03 PM
    • #2

    Religious guilt? Not at all. My firmest conviction is of materialism. I am not a materialist because I am an Epicurean—I am an Epicurean in part because I am, above all, a materialist.

    The things I do miss, I miss from Buddhism. First, a vast and rich textual canon, against which ours is quite paltry. Second, a living tradition in uninterrupted practice for over two and a half thousand years. Third, a profound sense of place attached to this tradition. The temples, the pagodas, the gardens and monuments. All bearing the unmistakable stamp of their origin. I miss the meditation altar in the front room of my old apartment. Some days I even miss being a vegetarian!

    I irregularly kept a journal in those days, and reading it a year later I was amused to find what I wrote down as my rationale (to myself) for not 'taking refuge'. Taking refuge is the ceremony of conversion to Buddhism, and at the height of my practice I wrote in my journal the reason I couldn't do it. I wrote just three words, but they were enough.

    Atoms and Void.

    Atoms and void...atoms and void...

    Those three words expressed everything that on some level I already knew I felt—atoms and void.They indicated my latent distrust of a religion that traffics in the fear of death, while promising a nebulous bliss in another life. Atoms and void.They encapsulated the sum total of everything I hoped, and everything I dreamed. In this life, not another or another. Modern Buddhists will tell you that rebirth and nirvana and heavens and hells are metaphorical. No, thank you; I prefer to take my metaphysic without metaphor. State the case as clearly as you can, or leave off trying to convince me. Atoms and Void!

    And you know what? I don't miss it. I really don't. I don't miss the nagging sense of doubt of what I've known all along. I don't miss the cargo-cult of meditation pillows and candles and tea, when deep down I know that nothing is happening inside.

    Unlike Jesus of Nazareth (who I really do think was either a lunatic or a pious fraud), Siddhartha Gautama may actually have been a compelling and insightful historical figure—and possibly even a good moral teacher. The story of Kisa Gotami and the mustard seed in Buddhism is far superior to the story of Lazarus, because its final conclusion is the truth; people don't come back from the dead. It simply doesn't happen.

    But I'm happy to leave them both at the gate, and follow that pleasant path to the garden where nobody ever asks me to lie to myself.

  • Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    102,522
    Posts
    14,033
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • September 2, 2020 at 2:05 PM
    • #3

    Joshua I can't remember if the two of you came in contact back when Matt was more active here. I was just telling Matt that he and Eoghan Gardiner had a lot in comment but the same applies to the two of you.

  • Godfrey
    Epicurist
    Points
    12,212
    Posts
    1,709
    Quizzes
    3
    Quiz rate
    85.0 %
    Bookmarks
    1
    • September 2, 2020 at 3:25 PM
    • #4

    Personally the journey hasn't really involved battles. Looking back, it's more like explorations along a path. It began with Christianity in my youth and proceeded through Daoism, yoga, Zen and Stoicism, all the while involving a search to placate the lingering dissatisfaction. Finding the Garden has eliminated the dissatisfaction, and the longer I linger, the better and more natural it feels.

  • Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    102,522
    Posts
    14,033
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • September 2, 2020 at 3:45 PM
    • #5

    I would suspect that a lot of the "battle" aspect comes from how much someone is involved with close family members who are also religious. In my case I was surrounded by a good many of those, but I was at an advanced enough age, and independent enough at that point in my life, that it really wasn't a problem. Someone who is younger and/or closely involved with very religious family members probably would have a much rougher time, but in some respects even that is good because it probably pushes you along faster than you'd otherwise go.

  • Matt
    03 - Member
    Points
    2,976
    Posts
    426
    Quizzes
    4
    Quiz rate
    88.9 %
    • September 6, 2020 at 8:43 PM
    • #6

    It’s good to be back.

  • Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    102,522
    Posts
    14,033
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • September 6, 2020 at 9:10 PM
    • #7

    i think if you will engage with our current group of regulars you'll be glad you did!

Unread Threads

    1. Title
    2. Replies
    3. Last Reply
    1. 'Philosophos' web site - philosophical connections 1

      • Thanks 4
      • TauPhi
      • June 11, 2025 at 5:02 PM
      • General Discussion
      • TauPhi
      • June 11, 2025 at 6:51 PM
    2. Replies
      1
      Views
      72
      1
    3. Cassius

      June 11, 2025 at 6:51 PM
    1. Who are capable of figuring the problem out 5

      • Like 1
      • Patrikios
      • June 5, 2025 at 4:25 PM
      • General Discussion
      • Patrikios
      • June 6, 2025 at 6:54 PM
    2. Replies
      5
      Views
      356
      5
    3. Patrikios

      June 6, 2025 at 6:54 PM
    1. What fears does modern science remove, as Epicurean physics did in antiquity? 31

      • Like 5
      • sanantoniogarden
      • June 2, 2025 at 3:35 PM
      • General Discussion
      • sanantoniogarden
      • June 6, 2025 at 2:05 PM
    2. Replies
      31
      Views
      1k
      31
    3. Don

      June 6, 2025 at 2:05 PM
    1. Porphyry - Letter to Marcella -"Vain Is the Word of the Philosopher..." 17

      • Like 1
      • Cassius
      • June 12, 2023 at 11:34 AM
      • Usener Collection
      • Cassius
      • June 3, 2025 at 11:17 PM
    2. Replies
      17
      Views
      5.9k
      17
    3. Bryan

      June 3, 2025 at 11:17 PM
    1. Daily life of ancient Epicureans / 21st Century Epicureans 38

      • Like 3
      • Robert
      • May 21, 2025 at 8:23 PM
      • General Discussion
      • Robert
      • May 29, 2025 at 1:44 PM
    2. Replies
      38
      Views
      3k
      38
    3. Pacatus

      May 29, 2025 at 1:44 PM

Latest Posts

  • 'Philosophos' web site - philosophical connections

    Cassius June 11, 2025 at 6:51 PM
  • Episode 284 - In Dealing With Pain, Does Practice Make Perfect? Or Does Practice Make For A Happy Life?

    Cassius June 10, 2025 at 7:24 PM
  • Adage: In A Crisis, We Don't Rise To The Occasion As Much As We Fall To Our Level of Practice

    Cassius June 10, 2025 at 7:24 PM
  • Tsouna's On Choices and Avoidances

    Robert June 8, 2025 at 1:37 AM
  • Episode 285 - Not Yet Released - Cicero Attacks Epicurus' PD04 And Says Virtue And Honor Is the Way To Overcome Bodily Pain

    Cassius June 7, 2025 at 3:12 PM
  • Updated Thoughts on the Question of "Peace and Safety" in the Works of Norman Dewitt

    Joshua June 7, 2025 at 2:02 PM
  • Who are capable of figuring the problem out

    Patrikios June 6, 2025 at 6:54 PM
  • What fears does modern science remove, as Epicurean physics did in antiquity?

    Don June 6, 2025 at 2:05 PM
  • Sunday, June 15 - Topic: The Letter of Cosma Raimondi

    Cassius June 6, 2025 at 1:46 PM
  • Welcome Balin!

    sanantoniogarden June 6, 2025 at 1:08 PM

Similar Threads

  • Can the senses be wrong?

    • Garden Dweller
    • October 6, 2019 at 12:48 PM
    • The Five Senses

EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy

  1. Home
    1. About Us
    2. Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Wiki
    1. Getting Started
  3. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. Site Map
  4. Forum
    1. Latest Threads
    2. Featured Threads
    3. Unread Posts
  5. Texts
    1. Core Texts
    2. Biography of Epicurus
    3. Lucretius
  6. Articles
    1. Latest Articles
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured Images
  8. Calendar
    1. This Month At EpicureanFriends
Powered by WoltLab Suite™ 6.0.22
Style: Inspire by cls-design
Stylename
Inspire
Manufacturer
cls-design
Licence
Commercial styles
Help
Supportforum
Visit cls-design