1. Home
    1. Study Guide
    2. Community Standards
    3. Site Map
    4. Quizzes
    5. Articles On Physics
    6. Articles On Canonics
    7. Articles On Ethics
    8. All Articles
    9. Elli's Blog Posts
    10. Kalosyni's Blog
    11. All Blog Posts
  2. Lexicon
    1. Lexicon Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Files
    4. Search Assistance
    5. Foundations
    6. Navigation Outlines
    7. Reading List
    8. Key Pages
    9. Last Changes
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Ancient Texts Forum
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Forum Shortcuts
    8. Forum Navigation Map
    9. Featured
    10. Most Discussed
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
    4. Search By Tag
    5. Complete Tag List
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Torquatus On Ethics
    3. Velleius On Divinity
    4. Diogenes Laertius
    5. Principal Doctrines
    6. Vatican Collection
    7. Lucretius
    8. Herodotus
    9. Pythocles
    10. Menoeceus
    11. Fragments - Usener Collection
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Latest Images
    2. Featured images
    3. Latest Comments
  8. More
    1. Featured Content
    2. Logbook
    3. EF ToDo List
  • Login
  • Register
  • Search
This Thread
  • Everywhere
  • This Thread
  • This Forum
  • Forum
  • Articles
  • Blog Articles
  • Files
  • Gallery
  • Pages
  • Wiki
  • FAQ
  • More Options
  1. EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Forum
  3. Ethics - How To Live
  4. Justice

"Liberty" - As discussed by Socrates and Aristippus vs. Epicurus

  • Cassius
  • June 23, 2020 at 12:47 PM
  • Go to last post
  • Online
    Cassius
    5 - Administrator
    • I Too Am An Epicurean
    • Advocate
    • Lucretius Today Podcast Co-Host
    • 2025 Contributor
    • Active Member 5 Years or more
    Points
    115,574
    Posts
    15,918
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • June 23, 2020 at 12:47 PM
    • #1

    It would be worth thinking about how "liberty" might be evaluated by Epicurus given his views on justice. I don't immediately have an Epicurean text reference but surely the Epicureans would have been aware of one of the most memorable Socratic passages on "liberty":

    Nay,” replied Aristippus, “for my part I am no candidate for slavery; but there is, as I hold, a middle path in which I am fain to walk. That way leads neither through rule nor slavery, but through liberty, which is the royal road to happiness.”

    which is followed by:

    “Ah,” said Socrates, “if only that path can avoid the world as well as rule and slavery, there may be something in what you say. But, since you are in the world, if you intend neither to rule nor to be ruled, and do not choose to truckle to the rulers

    — I think you must see that the stronger have a way of making the weaker rue their lot both in public and in private life, and treating them like slaves. You cannot be unaware that where some have sown and planted, others cut their corn and fell their trees, and in all manner of ways harass the weaker if they refuse to bow down, until they are persuaded to accept slavery as an escape from war with the stronger. So, too, in private life do not brave and mighty men enslave and plunder the cowardly and feeble folk?”

    “Yes, but my plan for avoiding such treatment is this. I do not shut myself up in the four corners of a community, but am a stranger in every land.”

    “A very cunning trick, that!” cried Socrates, “for ever since the death of Sinis and Sceiron and Procrustes1 no one injures strangers! And yet nowadays those who take a hand in the affairs of their homeland pass laws to protect themselves from injury, get friends to help them over and above those whom nature has given them, encompass their cities with fortresses, get themselves weapons to ward off the workers of mischief; and besides all this seek to make allies in other lands; and in spite of all these precautions, they are still wronged.

    But you, with none of these advantages, spend much time on the open road, where so many come to harm; and into whatever city you enter, you rank below all its citizens, and are one of those specially marked down for attack by intending wrongdoers; and yet, because you are a stranger, do you expect to escape injury? What gives you confidence? Is it that the cities by proclamation guarantee your safety in your coming and going? Or is it the thought that no master would find you worth having among his slaves? For who would care to have a man in his house who wants to do no work and has a weakness for high living?

  • Cassius June 23, 2020 at 12:52 PM

    Changed the title of the thread from “"Liberty" - As discussed by Socrates and Aristippus” to “"Liberty" - As discussed by Socrates and Aristippus vs. Epicurus”.
  • Charles
    3 - Friend
    Points
    2,581
    Posts
    351
    Quizzes
    4
    Quiz rate
    88.9 %
    • June 23, 2020 at 4:23 PM
    • #2
    Quote from Cassius

    “Yes, but my plan for avoiding such treatment is this. I do not shut myself up in the four corners of a community, but am a stranger in every land.”

    I'm seeing a parallel between this and Epicurus' advice to Pythocles: "Live Unknown" and "Steer clear of all culture"

    “If the joys found in nature are crimes, then man’s pleasure and happiness is to be criminal.”

  • Cassius August 19, 2023 at 6:04 PM

    Moved the thread from forum Justice In Epicurean Philosophy to forum Justice.

Resources

  1. Getting Started At EpicureanFriends
  2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
  3. The Major Doctrines of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  4. Introductory Videos
  5. Lexicon
  6. Lucretius Today Podcast
    1. Podcast Episode Guide
  7. Key Epicurean Texts
    1. Chart Of Key Quotes
    2. Outline Of Key Quotes
    3. Side-By-Side Diogenes Laertius X (Bio And All Key Writings of Epicurus)
    4. Side-By-Side Lucretius - On The Nature Of Things
    5. Side-By-Side Torquatus On Ethics
    6. Side-By-Side Velleius on Divinity
    7. Lucretius Topical Outline
    8. Usener Fragment Collection
  8. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. FAQ Discussions
  9. Full List of Forums
    1. Physics Discussions
    2. Canonics Discussions
    3. Ethics Discussions
    4. All Recent Forum Activities
  10. Image Gallery
  11. Featured Articles
  12. Featured Blog Posts
  13. Quiz Section
  14. Special Resource Pages
  15. File Database
  16. Site Map
    1. Home

Frequently Used Forums

  • Frequently Asked / Introductory Questions
  • News And Announcements
  • Lucretius Today Podcast
  • Physics (The Nature of the Universe)
  • Canonics (The Tests Of Truth)
  • Ethics (How To Live)
  • Against Determinism
  • Against Skepticism
  • The "Meaning of Life" Question
  • Uncategorized Discussion
  • Comparisons With Other Philosophies
  • Historical Figures
  • Ancient Writers and Texts
  • Decline of The Ancient Epicurean Age
  • Unsolved Questions of Epicurean History
  • Welcome New Participants
  • Events - Activism - Outreach
  • Full Forum List

Latest Posts

  1. Welcome Thomas Karion!

    Thomas Karion
    October 27, 2026 at 6:37 PM
  2. Discussion of Article - "Aristotle - Introduction From An Epicurean Perspective"

    Cassius
    October 27, 2026 at 11:57 AM
  3. Discussion of Article - "Sextus Empiricus - Introduction From An Epicurean Perspective"

    Pacatus
    October 26, 2026 at 6:06 PM
  4. Heads up: New Book Coming in 2027

    Cassius
    October 26, 2026 at 4:29 PM
  5. Do some people still believe in fate?

    Kalosyni
    October 26, 2026 at 9:27 AM
  6. David Sedley - "Creationism And Its Critics In Antiquity"

    Cassius
    October 26, 2026 at 6:24 AM
  7. Turning to Religion to Make AI Morally Good (Comparing this to Epicurean Philosophy)

    Kalosyni
    October 25, 2026 at 8:07 AM
  8. Sextus Empiricus - Clearly Stating That Skepticism Leads Not To Pleasure But To "Quietude"

    Cassius
    October 25, 2026 at 7:37 AM
  9. Episode 357 - EATAQ39 - Continuing in Part 18 of Book 2 of Academic Questions - Not Yet Recorded

    Cassius
    October 24, 2026 at 5:55 PM
  10. Major Upgrade To Forum Software - Now Completed

    Cassius
    October 23, 2026 at 9:11 PM

Frequently Used Tags

In addition to posting in the appropriate forums, participants are encouraged to reference the following tags in their posts:

  • #Physics
    • #Atomism
    • #Gods
    • #Images
    • #Infinity
    • #Eternity
    • #Life
    • #Death
  • #Canonics
    • #Knowledge
    • #Scepticism
  • #Ethics

    • #Pleasure
    • #Pain
    • #Engagement
    • #EpicureanLiving
    • #Happiness
    • #Virtue
      • #Wisdom
      • #Temperance
      • #Courage
      • #Justice
      • #Honesty
      • #Faith (Confidence)
      • #Suavity
      • #Consideration
      • #Hope
      • #Gratitude
      • #Friendship



Click Here To Search All Tags

To Suggest Additions To This List Click Here

EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy

  1. Home
    1. About Us
    2. Classical Epicurean Philosophy
    3. Rules, Terms & Policies
  2. Lexicon
    1. Getting Started
  3. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. Site Map
  4. Forum
    1. Latest Threads
    2. Featured Threads
    3. Unread Posts
  5. Texts
    1. Core Texts
    2. Biography of Epicurus
    3. Lucretius
  6. Articles
    1. Latest Articles
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured Images
  8. Calendar
    1. This Month At EpicureanFriends
Powered by WoltLab Suite™ 6.2.8
Style: Inspire by cls-design
Stylename
Inspire
Manufacturer
cls-design
Licence
Commercial styles
Help
Supportforum
Visit cls-design