1. New
    1. Member Announcements
  2. Home
    1. Get Started - Activities
    2. Posting Policies
    3. Community Standards
    4. Terms of Use
    5. Moderator Team
    6. Site Map
    7. Quizzes
    8. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
      2. Blog Posts at EpicureanFriends
  3. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  4. Forum
    1. New Activity
    2. New Threads
    3. Welcome
    4. General Discussion
    5. Featured
    6. Activism
    7. Shortcuts
    8. Dashboard
    9. Full Forum List
    10. Level 3+
    11. Most Discussed
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    5. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    6. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    7. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  • Login
  • Register
  • Search
This Thread

Welcome To EpicureanFriends.com!

"Remember that you are mortal, and you have a limited time to live, and in devoting yourself to discussion of the nature of time and eternity you have seen things that have been, are now, and are to come."

Sign In Now
or
Register a new account
  1. New
  2. Home
  3. Wiki
  4. Forum
  5. Podcast
  6. Texts
  7. Gallery
  8. Calendar
  9. Other
  1. Forum
    1. New Activity
    2. New Threads
    3. Welcome
    4. General Discussion
    5. Featured
    6. Activism
    7. Shortcuts
    8. Dashboard
    9. Full Forum List
    10. Level 3+
    11. Most Discussed
  1. EpicureanFriends - Home of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Forum
  3. General Discussion - Start Here
  4. General Discussion
  • Sidebar
  • Sidebar

Pleasure as a Synergy: A Critical Discussion of Ataraxia in Epicurean Ethics

  • Hiram
  • September 10, 2019 at 10:53 AM
  • Go to last post
Regularly Checking In On A Small Screen Device? Bookmark THIS page!
  • Hiram
    02 - Inactive
    Points
    4,106
    Posts
    582
    Quizzes
    1
    Quiz rate
    88.9 %
    • September 10, 2019 at 10:53 AM
    • #1

    https://www.academia.edu/37487112/Pleas…picurean_Ethics

    "Please always remember my doctrines!" - Epicurus' last words

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    101,885
    Posts
    13,950
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • September 10, 2019 at 11:33 AM
    • #2

    At least on first glance I am not seeing much that advances the ball - this seems to be the standard academic analysis that separates ataraxia as some kind of "fancy pleasure" in Elayne 's term, or something distinct from ordinary pleasure:

    Quote

    Epicureanism takes pleasure as inextricably tied to the attainment of virtue. Yet, it can be argued that pleasure is not the sole motivation of his ethical theory. One may argue that the real motivation and desirable end for the Epicurean is achieving ataraxia. Ataraxia is the state absent of physical pain and mental disturbance. This introduces a notable distinction from common interpretations of Epicurean ethics, insofar as one may argue that Epicurus’ theory advances the notion that one need not actively seek out pleasure if one is not suffering physical pain or mental anguish. But, if ataraxia is the desired end for the Epicurean, what role, then, does pleasure play in this framework? Furthermore, we must now ask if ataraxia is at all tied to virtue.

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    101,885
    Posts
    13,950
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • September 10, 2019 at 11:35 AM
    • #3

    Even to make the suggestion that "ataraxia [is] a necessary condition to allow for the pursuit of pleasure" indicates to me that the article is way off base:

    Quote

    However, if we look to Epicurus’ Principal Doctrines, the third fragment seems to indicate that ataraxia is more than just a means. The fragment reads –

    “3. The magnitude of pleasure reaches its limit in the removal of all pain. When pleasure is present, so long as it is uninterrupted, there is no pain either of the body or of the mind or of both together.”

    One may interpret the fragment as clearly supporting ataraxia as a necessary condition to allow for the pursuit of pleasure. The fragment also seems to indicate that when pleasure is present and uninterrupted, one is free of physical pain and mental disturbance: one is in a state of ataraxia. Furthermore, the heights of pleasure can only be attained in absence of all pain, making ataraxia more than a mere state from which one can freely pursue pleasure. This creates an ambiguity around what the roles of both pleasure and ataraxia are in respect to virtue, both as distinct experiences, and, arguably, as a synergistic experience. What does this entail for the Epicurean?

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    101,885
    Posts
    13,950
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • September 10, 2019 at 11:42 AM
    • #4

    Pretty much a waste of time - classic Okeefe-like analysis - "one need not pursue pleasure if one is not suffering from bodily pain and mental anguish."

    Although I am not sure I have seen even Okeefe go this far: "how it can be taken to convey the necessity of ataraxia in attaining the heights of pleasure."

    And in the same misguided line by all means let's be sure to cite "the rational Soul" as the key to tempering pleasure and achieving happiness: "one must use their rational soul to temper and moderate their desires. And that through doing this, one attains ataraxia, which then allows one to embark on the unimpeded pursuit of pleasure."

    I would say in regard to the final conclusion that the essay is effective in one thing: showing the dead end that Epicurean philosophy would be if the standard academic interpretation of it were correct - which is presumably exactly the result that Cicero wanted when he help launch this line of argument in the first place.


    Quote

    Conclusion

    This essay set out with the intention to critically discuss the notion of ataraxia in Epicureanism on two fronts. Firstly, that ataraxia is an instrumental virtue and, secondly, that it is part of a unique type of synergy which reflects a dualism in Epicurus’ thought. This was achieved by discussing through three sections, the notion that pleasure is a two-fold phenomenon, and what this entailed for the Epicurean conception of virtue qua pleasure as a good in itself.

    The first section began with a brief discussion positioning Epicurus’ ethics within his atomism. Following this, I introduced ataraxia in its common conception in Epicurean ethics, making the important point that one need not pursue pleasure if one is not suffering from bodily pain and mental anguish. Hypothetically positing ataraxia, in this sense, as an end, the discussion then ventured into examining how ataraxia is tied to virtue by first exploring the third fragment of Epicurus’ Principal Doctrines, and how it can be taken to convey the necessity of ataraxia in attaining the heights of pleasure. Subsequently, this section critically considered the placement of ataraxia and pleasure, both as distinct phenomena and as a synergised phenomenon, in the Epicurean categories of desire. This hinted at the possibility that pleasure needs to be considered as a synergy as an end of Epicurean ethics. A brief discussion on the hedonistic elements of Epicureanism concluded the section, tentatively establishing the ataraxia is necessary to attaining pleasure for the Epicurean.

    The second section opened with a discussion aiming to establish ataraxia as an instrumental virtue. This was by distinguishing pleasure into kinetic pleasure, and static pleasure, with reference to fragments 5 and 17 of the Principal Doctrines. These fragments were revealed to provide evidence to support the argument that ataraxia is an instrumental virtue by claiming that the fragments revealed that one must use their rational soul to temper and moderate their desires. And that through doing this, one attains ataraxia, which then allows one to embark on the unimpeded pursuit of pleasure. Kinetic and static pleasure were further unpacked demonstrating their strong synergistic relationship. By considering pleasure in this way, two problems arose and were then overcome

    by critically considering the role of belief as a means of overcoming the problems.

    The third section critiqued Epicurean ethics against itself, revealing two dilemmas. The dilemmas contested were respectively; a problem arguing that Epicureanism does not motivate someone to go above-and-beyond the attainment of pleasure and the absence of pain, and the problem that, although one “ought” to pursue pleasure as the ultimate good of a moral life, not everyone does so.

    In summary, I believe that this essay effectively argued that pleasure and ataraxia can, indeed, be considered virtues, albeit in different ways, and that pleasure as the telos only makes sense within Epicurean ethics if understood as a synergy between kinetic and static pleasure, which, I argue, reveals a dualistic element to Epicurus’ thought.

    Display More
  • Elayne
    03 - Member
    Points
    3,093
    Posts
    455
    • September 11, 2019 at 11:13 AM
    • #5

    Arrgh. Yep, this article is a hot mess. Once you get into imaginary ideas like fancy pleasure or absence of pain which is _not_ pleasurable, in an reality-based sense of the word, everything that follows is nonsense. Biology is a sufficient argument against the false premise. There's no true zero state in a living, conscious human. Let him bring me a case. 😂

Unread Threads

    1. Title
    2. Replies
    3. Last Reply
    1. ⟐ as the symbol of the philosophy of Epicurus 86

      • Like 2
      • michelepinto
      • March 18, 2021 at 11:59 AM
      • General Discussion
      • michelepinto
      • May 21, 2025 at 4:40 PM
    2. Replies
      86
      Views
      9.2k
      86
    3. Joshua

      May 21, 2025 at 4:40 PM
    1. "All Models Are Wrong, But Some Are Useful" 5

      • Like 3
      • Cassius
      • January 21, 2024 at 11:21 AM
      • General Discussion
      • Cassius
      • May 20, 2025 at 5:35 PM
    2. Replies
      5
      Views
      1.3k
      5
    3. Novem

      May 20, 2025 at 5:35 PM
    1. Analysing movies through an Epicurean lens 16

      • Like 1
      • Rolf
      • May 12, 2025 at 4:54 PM
      • General Discussion
      • Rolf
      • May 19, 2025 at 12:45 AM
    2. Replies
      16
      Views
      912
      16
    3. Matteng

      May 19, 2025 at 12:45 AM
    1. Is All Desire Painful? How Would Epicurus Answer? 24

      • Like 1
      • Cassius
      • May 7, 2025 at 10:02 PM
      • General Discussion
      • Cassius
      • May 10, 2025 at 3:42 PM
    2. Replies
      24
      Views
      1.3k
      24
    3. sanantoniogarden

      May 10, 2025 at 3:42 PM
    1. Pompeii Then and Now 7

      • Like 2
      • kochiekoch
      • January 22, 2025 at 1:19 PM
      • General Discussion
      • kochiekoch
      • May 8, 2025 at 3:50 PM
    2. Replies
      7
      Views
      1.2k
      7
    3. kochiekoch

      May 8, 2025 at 3:50 PM

Latest Posts

  • ⟐ as the symbol of the philosophy of Epicurus

    Joshua May 21, 2025 at 4:40 PM
  • Epicurean Rings / Jewelry / Coins / Mementos

    Eikadistes May 21, 2025 at 4:17 PM
  • Episode 281 - Is Pain The Greatest Evil - Or Even An Evil At All?

    Cassius May 21, 2025 at 6:30 AM
  • Happy Twentieth of May 2025!

    Don May 20, 2025 at 9:07 PM
  • "All Models Are Wrong, But Some Are Useful"

    Novem May 20, 2025 at 5:35 PM
  • Article: Scientists in a race to discover why our Universe exists

    kochiekoch May 20, 2025 at 1:26 PM
  • New "TWENTIERS" Website

    Cassius May 19, 2025 at 4:30 PM
  • Sabine Hossenfelder - Why the Multiverse Is Religion

    Eikadistes May 19, 2025 at 3:39 PM
  • What Makes Someone "An Epicurean?"

    Eikadistes May 19, 2025 at 1:06 PM
  • Analysing movies through an Epicurean lens

    Matteng May 19, 2025 at 12:45 AM

EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy

  1. Home
    1. About Us
    2. Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Wiki
    1. Getting Started
  3. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. Site Map
  4. Forum
    1. Latest Threads
    2. Featured Threads
    3. Unread Posts
  5. Texts
    1. Core Texts
    2. Biography of Epicurus
    3. Lucretius
  6. Articles
    1. Latest Articles
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured Images
  8. Calendar
    1. This Month At EpicureanFriends
Powered by WoltLab Suite™ 6.0.22
Style: Inspire by cls-design
Stylename
Inspire
Manufacturer
cls-design
Licence
Commercial styles
Help
Supportforum
Visit cls-design
  • Everywhere
  • This Thread
  • This Forum
  • Forum
  • Articles
  • Blog Articles
  • Files
  • Gallery
  • Events
  • Pages
  • Wiki
  • Help
  • FAQ
  • More Options
foo
Save Quote