Kalosyni Level 03
  • from Oregon, USA
  • Member since Aug 6th 2021
  • Last Activity:

Posts by Kalosyni

    LOL...yes it's a picture of my holiday stach. I shop at Trader Joe's and they have lots of fun stuff. So far I tried the Pecan Pie Porter and liked it...haven't tried the others yet.


    Thanks for all your helpful feedback. I see I better correct my post, and in the future be more careful in how I state things.

    Here are some excerpts of the main points from my latest blog post, which I hope upholds this forum's take on Epicureanism. Feel free to correct me if something isn't quite "kosher" in the Epicurean sense, or if there is anything that should be added.

    Evaluation of Activities for Benefit and Pleasure
    The following blog post came to me after reading an email in which a friend wrote the phrase: "I guess I better....". It got me thinking, be...
    epicureanphilosophyblog.blogspot.com

    I am enjoying reading everyone's comments, such good and helpful insights!


    Godfrey ...this comes up for me after reading what you wrote...That the "fear" and the need to defend ideology/religion arises due to how the mind forms concepts.


    The Tao te Ching (Stephen Mitchell translation) says:

    I am currently contemplating how Taoism compares with Epicureanism. It seems that some of it fits, but yet other aspects are too much like Pyrrhonism/Skepticism.

    There is the enjoyment of procuring/creating all the sensory delights of the season, and for the enjoyable feelings of anticipation as the holiday celebrations near -- this for me was especially so back when I was married. My ex and I would go to his family of origin (his mom, siblings, nieces and nephews). It was always a very festive Christmas overflowing with abundance. And I have the fun memory of everyone sipping wine, laughing and playing "Apples to Apples" game.


    It does seem that every holiday season causes me take stock regarding the kinds of friendships and emotional connections I have in my life. This year I find that I need to focus my mind more on the pleasures of making my living space cosy, rather than on emotional connections (it's complicated for me right now, because I am in an uncommitted "situationship").


    This year I am going to fullful my wish of making a gingerbread house, all from scratch, so it will be good and tasty enough to eat on Christmas day.

    I think I see some of what you are saying Cassius. It might be that some of what I write might be "crazymaking" in that I am probably going around-and-around in circles, while both forgetting the actual philosophy and making slightly off-kilter arguments. (How do I learn to stop doing that?...I need to study the basics more and take better notes, and learn how to present my ideas in a cleaner, clearer fashion).


    But I think I do enjoy the "learning by hashing things out" method. I hope it isn't too annoying for people. (Am I just entertaining myself but boring others?)


    So...Another way to look at this is that "the telos" is also the goal. For example, Christians have as their goal to see Jesus in heaven after they die, and that goal would both include salvation and go beyond it. But they don't have that as their only goal.


    Now for Epicureans the goal is to live life the most pleasureably, because this life is the only life. And to live pleasureably both includes and goes beyond tranquility.


    A question that comes up for me lately is, at what point does an Epicurean say: "I've studied the teachings and I've learned the teachings, now I will simply just live the teachings." Yet, one would not feel fully contented until one as established the fundamental material attributes underlying the Epicurean lifestyle.

    I am still contemplating the role of tranquility within Epicureanism.


    Tranquility as defined as peace of mind, which would be a mental attitude. So it is that one feels untroubled and free from disturbances.


    Martin said in an earlier thread:

    Quote

    Epicurus' philosophy is better characterized by the statement that peace of mind is required to experience maximum pleasure but is not equal to pleasure.

    (And according to Striker's article tranquility is a sort of pleasure).


    So now there is:

    1) Tranquility is not the highest pleasure

    2) Tranquility is a sort of pleasure

    3) Tranquility is required to experience maximum pleasure


    A certain amount of tranquility is required for a happy life. The tranquil person will be able to sleep soundly at night and wake up refreshed and ready to enjoy life. But those who struggle with bouts of insomnia may need to invest some time to process anxieties, etc. I myself occassionally have been dealing with insomnia. I don't think a therapist is required, but some processing of anxiety, fear, and unfulfilled desires, is necessary. I can see that there are some PD's that might apply.

    Has there been any analysis on Diogenes Laertius section on Ethics? I found a translation that is different than one you have here on the forum.


    Diogenes Laertius - Lives of Eminent Philosophers

    Thank you Cassius for highlighting certain sections of the article and sharing your views and insights.


    Good stuff on Epicureanism.... After reading the parts on Pyrrhonism, it appears to me that Zen Buddhism has some similar views to Pyrrhonism. There were two suicides at the Zen Temple I used to attend. Both were men in their 20's. Such a shame. So much for tranquility. If only they had had the ability to access more pleasure in life.


    Pleasure, I firmly believe, is the antidote to the "darkness" and "heaviness" of life. But one must know and practice the best way to dance with one's pleasures.

    I will not do a tranquility table of comparison after-all. But there is this difference between Epicurus and the Stoics:


    Epicurus -- the happy person will be unperturbed.

    Stoics -- the sage will be unperturbable: nothing that happens can possibly bring him any trouble.

    Quote

    "I will argue that tranquility was in fact not a serious contender for the position of ultimate good in ancient times"


    Epicurus: "As he was known, he was a hedonist, who believed that the good, for humans at least, is pleasure, and therefore the best life must be the most pleasant."

    From Gisela Striker article:

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/27903171

    Tranquility is itself a pleasure. It is not a character trait as the Stoics would hold, but rather a state of being free from troubles and anxiety. It is the state of being free from unfulfilled desires and fear of pain or memories of pain. One can feel untroubled by unfulfilled desires by realizing that the things that are most needed are simple to fulfill. Fears are dispelled by realizing that most fears are unfounded. Pains that cannot be overcome will not last long when severe, and when mild one can yet enjoy pleasures. These ideas are reframed in my own words from the jstor article.

    My newest blog entry, a "common sense" approach, that should align with the views of most on this forum:



    Why Tranquility Should Not Be the Main Goal for the Epicurean
    In this blog I want to step outside the bounds of classical Epicurean scholarship and explore pleasure and tranquility using a simple “commo...
    epicureanphilosophyblog.blogspot.com

    I happened upon this, but haven't read very much yet. Has anyone else already seen this?


    "Among Friends: Cicero and the Epicureans" Thesis by Nathan Gilbert


    Quote

    "Cicero’s social relationships with a wide range of Greek and Roman Epicureans and his epistolary debates with them reveal how his overt and consistent hostility toward the Garden reflects far more than the standard practice of refuting a rival school (i.e. like certain anti-Epicurean discourses of Epictetus or polemical works of Plutarch). Cicero’s hostility, stretching from the preface of Book I of De Republica to the final paragraphs of De Officiis (3.116-20), amounts to nothing less than a consistent campaign to undermine and demolish the influence and popularity of Epicureanism in Italy and seeks simultaneously to establish his place in the history of Roman literature over his philosophical rivals, a group of early Latin authors of Epicurean treatises (including Lucretius)." ...


    ...."Finally, I also hope that my analysis of Cicero's anti-Epicurean polemics will offer clarification as to how he can be used responsibly in reconstructions of the school's doctrines."


    Among Friends: Cicero and the Epicureans (thesis)
    Among Friends: Cicero and the Epicureans (thesis)
    www.academia.edu

    our lives are of most important value to us, so that we should focus our effort on using our time the "best" way possible. And we have to have a philosophical judgment as to what is the "best way possible."

    What I find valuable about this forum (Cassius@ under your direct guidance) is that you advocate that each individual should be allowed to make their own choices as to what the "best way possible" is. Of course, we assume that we have developed the wisdom to make choices that are ethical, and so we don't choose to do things that cause any pain or suffering to others.


    As to personal choices, I myself won't ever choose bungie jumping or sky diving, and yet there could considered a place in "hedonism" for those who have high testosterone levels and seek to enjoy themselves in potentially risky or intense sensory experiences. I think these kinds of choices would be considered a "modern" interpretation of Epicureanism. Epicurus himself led a quiet life and I can't see him wanting to do any risky behaviors. There is much more sweet pleasure to be had in the "Garden".


    Quote


    "To-morrow, dearest Piso, your friend, beloved by the Muses, who keeps our annual feast of the twentieth * invites you to come after the ninth hour to his simple cottage. If you miss udders and draughts of Chian wine, you will see at least sincere friends and you will hear things far sweeter than the land of the Phaeacians. But if you ever cast your eyes on me, Piso, we shall celebrate the twentieth richly instead of simply."

    http://www.attalus.org/poetry/philodemus.html