Best Source For Analysis of Surviving Portions of Philodemus On / Against __ ??__ - PHerc 1005

  • As best I can tell as I type this we don't have a good source for a translation of surviving fragments of this work, and analysis of what the work is about. Please post suggestions for that in this thread. Thanks!

  • Cassius

    Changed the title of the thread from “Best Source For Analysis of Surviving Portions of this Work” to “Best Source For Analysis of Surviving Portions of Philodemus (On / Against __ ??__ - PHerc 1005)”.
  • In a footnote in Obbink's Philodemus On Piety, Obbink mentions the Tetrapharmakos' restatement/paraphrase in PHerc 1251 Col 4. I haven't had a chance to attack a translation yet but wanted to get this here while it was fresh. PHerc 1251 is Philodemus's On Choices and Avoidances (to give it the traditional title). I've italicized a few words that appear common to the original in PHerc 1005:

    http://papyri.info/dclp/62463

    Philodemus , De electionibus et fugis

    Content: Philodemus; peri haireseon kai phygon (on choices and rejections), with end title

    P.Herc. 1251 col. 4

    Engraved 1840-1844 by Raffaele Biondi

    καὶ [τὸ κ]ακ̣ὸ[ν οὐ] μό̣νο[ν ἔ-]

    χον̣ ὅ̣[ρ]ους [κατ]ὰ̣ τὸ μέγε̣θ̣ος

    καὶ κατὰ [τὸν] χρόνον, ἀλλὰ

    καὶ εὐεκκα[ρτ]ακ(*)ητον, ἐπει-

    5 δήπερ οὐδ[ὲ]ν̣ ὄφελος ὡ[ρίσθ]αι

    μέν, ἡμῖν δ̣' [ἄκ]τητον δ[ύσ-]

    κτητον ε[ἶναι] τἀγαθόν, ἢ [πε-]

    περάνθα[ι μέ]ν, ἀνεγκαρτέ-

    ρητον δ' [εἶν]αι διὰ τὴ[ν πο-]

    10 λυχρονιότ[ητ]α τὸ κακόν· πε-

    ριγίνεται γὰρ ἐκ τῶν γνώσε-

    ων τούτων τό τε μηθὲν δι-

    ώκειν ὃ μὴ πέφυκεν ἀλγη-

    δόνα περιαιρεῖν, οἷα τὰ πλεῖσ-

    15τα τῶν κατεσπουδασμέν[ων]

    ἐστὶν παρ' ἀνθρώποις, μή[τε]

    φεύγειν ὃ μὴ κωλύει τ[ὴν ἡ-]

    δονὴν ἔχειν, οἷ(*)α τὰ πλεῖσ[τ]α

    τῶν ἐν προκοπῆι δεῖ ν[οῆσαι·]

    20 κ̣αὶ πάλ̣ιν πρὸς μηδεο̣[ ̣ ̣]ς


    The book is searchable here. I suggest trying "easily" and "Col. IV" as here "good" and "attain" which will give a snippet of translation of Col. IV:

    "It is just as well that we know that the good is not only limited in magnitude but also is easy to attain) and that the bad not only had limits in magnitude and time, but also is easy to bear; for otherwise it would be of no use that the good should be limited but impossible or difficult for us to attain, or ..."

    https://books.google.com/books…searchwithinvolume&q=good

  • Cassius

    Changed the title of the thread from “Best Source For Analysis of Surviving Portions of Philodemus (On / Against __ ??__ - PHerc 1005)” to “Best Source For Analysis of Surviving Portions of Philodemus On / Against __ ??__ - PHerc 1005”.
  • That Obbink footnote also references Cicero's De Finibus, I.62, as another instance where the Tetrapharmakos is restated or paraphrased (emphasis mine):

    Quote

    The conclusion is that no foolish man can be happy, nor any wise man fail to be happy. This is a truth that we establish far more conclusively than do the Stoics. For they maintain that nothing is good save that vague phantom which they entitle Moral Worth, a title more splendid than substantial; and say that Virtue resting on this Moral Worth has no need of pleasure, but is herself her own sufficient happiness. 62 "At the same time this Stoic doctrine can be stated in a form which we do not object to, and indeed ourselves endorse. For Epicurus thus presents his Wise Man who is always happy: his desires are kept within bounds; death he disregards; he has a true conception, untainted by fear, of the Divine nature; he does not hesitate to depart from life, if that would better his condition. Thus equipped he enjoys perpetual pleasure, for there is no moment when the pleasures he experiences do not outbalance the pains; since he remembers the past with gratitude, grasps the present with a full realization of its pleasantness, and does not rely upon the future; he looks forward to it, but finds his true enjoyment in the present. Also he is entirely free from the vices that I instanced a few moments ago, and he derives no inconsiderable pleasure from comparing his own existence with the life of the foolish. More, any pains that the Wise Man may encounter are never so severe but that he has more cause for gladness than for sorrow.

  • Of course I would consider that to be a partial paraphrase of doctrines one through four, much more accurately stated than the tetrapharmakon version, while leaving out the reference to the gods.

  • Of course I would consider that to be a partial paraphrase of doctrines one through four, much more accurately stated than the tetrapharmakon version, while leaving out the reference to the gods.

    Oh, the gods are there and it even references not fearing them:

    Quote

    he has a true conception, untainted by fear, of the Divine nature