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Cassius
ThreadSeptember 18, 2025 at 3:21 PM Welcome to Episode 300 of Lucretius Today. This is a podcast dedicated to the poet Lucretius, who wrote "On The Nature of Things," the most complete presentation of Epicurean philosophy left to us from the ancient world.
Each week we walk you through the… -
Cassius
PostSeptember 18, 2025 at 8:49 AM […]
At least as to me I don't object to it, and I think most everyone here (where we generally have a realistic view of things) will agree. Total absence of pain is pretty obviously a theoretical goal more rather than established fact for any human being… -
Don
PostSeptember 18, 2025 at 8:13 AM Some may object to my saying mortals can never be free from all pain and say something like What's the use of Epicurus' philosophy then.
It's the foundation that it's built on that matters.
If I remember correctly, the Stoics didn't think a normal human… -
Don
September 18, 2025 at 6:49 AM Replied to the thread Welcome Chump!.PostWelcome aboard!
Glad to see the forum is showing up in Google searches!
DeWitt is complete, but I personally get bogged down by his style sometimes. If you do happen to get tired, I highly recommend taking a break and reading Emily Austin's Living for… -
Cassius
September 18, 2025 at 6:06 AM Replied to the thread Welcome Chump!.PostI think we'll be hearing more from Chump soon. In the meantime, here's what he's now sent me:
[…]
Welcome aboard Chump! -
Cassius
PostSeptember 18, 2025 at 5:39 AM From our zoom discussion last night, here is another way of asking the question:
The average person likely presumes that "the highest pleasure," is what we might call "ecstasy," and Epicurus says something not far from that in U423 (from Plutarch) where… -
Cassius
PostSeptember 18, 2025 at 5:34 AM […]
Now there is a statement that deserves more comment, because I place that framing squarely within the "heap" / sorities framing. Like grains of sand, there are myriad experiences that can be described as pleasure, and yet "happiness" or "the best… -
Rolf
September 18, 2025 at 2:26 AM Replied to the thread Happy Birthday General Thread.PostI hope you had a good birthday, Bryan! -
Adrastus
PostSeptember 18, 2025 at 1:05 AM Thank you very much for this discussion on an extremely important issue in Epicurean Philosophy, and another well elucidated debate within this episode.
Maybe this belongs more in a highly practical, or religious practice area of the forum; but I use this… -
Don
PostSeptember 17, 2025 at 11:54 PM […]
On Ends, I. 38 Itaque non placuit Epicuro medium esse quiddam inter dolorem et voluptatem; illud enim ipsum, quod quibusdam medium videretur, cum omni dolore careret, non modo voluptatem esse, verum etiam summam voluptatem. quisquis enim sentit, quem… -
Kalosyni
September 17, 2025 at 7:18 PM Replied to the thread Ancient Greek/Roman Customs, Culture, and Clothing.PostEpicurus likely would have been familiar with the cult of Eirene (eirene = peace).
[…]
source: Wikipedia -
Don
PostSeptember 17, 2025 at 6:10 PM "feeling no pain" is an idiom for feeling blissful. Just saying
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Cassius
September 17, 2025 at 6:08 PM Replied to the thread Welcome Chump!.PostHello chump ! I received your initial email but did not receive anything in response to my request that you tell us more about your background and interest in Epicurus. Please do that here - we look forward to hearing from you. -
Cassius
September 17, 2025 at 6:07 PM Posted the thread Welcome Chump!.ThreadWelcome chump
There is one last step to complete your registration:
All new registrants must post a response to this message here in this welcome thread (we do this in order to minimize spam registrations).
You must post your response within 24 hours, or… -
Cassius
PostSeptember 17, 2025 at 6:06 PM […]
I agree with that.
But ok, where's the disconnect? Torquatus is making these statements very "flatly," He's speaking almost literally "The absence of pain is pleasure - in fact it's the highest pleasure." And I'd say that Epicurus is doing the same… -
Eikadistes
September 17, 2025 at 5:44 PM Replied to the thread Happy Birthday General Thread.PostHappy birthday, phílos Bryan ! -
Don
PostSeptember 17, 2025 at 4:42 PM […]
That's the point. What they rightly subjectively perceive as blahness isn't the highest pleasure. They are not really free from all pain. I would go so far as to say that none of us are ever going to be at the highest pleasure. We're not gods. Even… -
Cassius
PostSeptember 17, 2025 at 4:13 PM […]
Ok that's why I am thinking that the approach would be controversial, but I am not yet sure that it isn't essentially what Epicurus is saying. Again playing off Joshua's observation, we'd have to deal with the subjectivity of the whole question and… -
Don
PostSeptember 17, 2025 at 3:41 PM "It depends how you look at it" plays into the other person's hands. You've accepted their terms and are agreeing to play by their rules on their turf.
They're "looking at it" ....... Okay, I hesitate to say "the wrong way," but that's what I want to say.… -
Matteng
September 17, 2025 at 3:27 PM Replied to the thread The relationship between pleasure and pain and emotions and feelings.PostVery important subject for me, but have no final conclusions on it. Interesting for me is also the difference between the Stoic and Epicurean view.
Seems that Epicureans focus more on pleasure/pain and the Stoics more on negative Emotions.
Epicureans:… -
Cassius
PostSeptember 17, 2025 at 3:15 PM Don I note you did not comment on this:
[…]
Does that mean that you think "it depends on how you look at it" would be incorrect?
In this case we're not talking about physics, where the ultimate questions certainly don't depend on how you look at it. Atoms… -
Cassius
PostSeptember 17, 2025 at 3:07 PM […]
As to especially "then you are not alive but dead" and also "someone who is alive is always feeling," that is not the way most people talk, and Cicero is going to win that argument every day of the week in front of most juries, Greek, Roman, or today.… -
Don
PostSeptember 17, 2025 at 2:42 PM Are you alive?
Yes?
What are you feeling right now?
Nothing. I am in a neutral state, I am feeling neither pleasure nor pain.
Then you are not alive but dead.
Harrrrumph! Well, the absence of pain is not the highest pleasure.
If you are alive, you are… -
Cassius
PostSeptember 17, 2025 at 2:13 PM […]
Maybe what I am saying is so obvious that it doesn't need to be said.
I'm looking for "what would Epicurus have said himself if he had been present with Cicero or Plutarch and been allowed to speak further beyond what Torquatus was allowed to say, or… -
Don
PostSeptember 17, 2025 at 1:07 PM […]
Depends what you mean by "different". My impression is that most everyone would agree that alert, excited, happy, calm, etc are positive feelings; and stressed, upset, nervous, bored are negative feelings. Those positive and negative sides can be… -
Don
PostSeptember 17, 2025 at 1:01 PM […]
I would bet that that "middle ground" is not as stable as your argument and Cicero's is making it out to be. If you actually ask someone supposedly experiencing this "middle ground," I would meet they'd defer to adjectives like calm, bored, relaxed,… -
Cassius
PostSeptember 17, 2025 at 12:04 PM Don -- Yes that circle represents another model. Like any other model I would expect that the author of the model would say that it is grounded in reality, so I would say the original question remains.
For example, all of those headings around the… -
Kalosyni
September 17, 2025 at 8:29 AM Replied to the thread Happy Birthday General Thread.Post -
Don
PostSeptember 17, 2025 at 8:26 AM Or the circumplex model of affect is applicable:
As one moves around the circle, you experience varying intensities of pleasant and unpleasant/painful feelings. But there's are only two big baskets: pleasant/unpleasant overall. As long as you are a… -
Cassius
September 17, 2025 at 7:16 AM Replied to the thread Happy Birthday General Thread.PostYes, Happy Birthday Bryan! Thank you for all that you do!
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