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By coincidence some of the same issues we're discussing here arise in another thread in which Kalosyni has made us aware of a competing psycho-sociological group (devoted to what they call Self-Determination Theory). The link below goes to my own comment where I am going through the philosophical implications of that group's focus, but the entire thread is useful. It's a good example of the issues involved here in this thread. Much of psychology and sociology is embedded with philosophical…

This is the final conclusion paragraph of their "The Theory" page: […] SDT gives strong indication of being as much a sociological or even political group than any kind of personal therapy or insight into ultimate questions of life. Also, the same emphasis is in the last paragraph of what is apparently one of their seminal articles from 2001 (underlining is mine): […]

I'm not going to have more time to explore this at present myself, but I see that these particular writings are apparently significant indications of their Aristotelian focus. These articles would presumably lead us right back into core discussions of the differences between Aristotelian views of life (based on their being a prime move and intelligent direction as a basis for a system of virtue ethics), vs the Epicurean position (that there is no prime mover, no intelligent design, no absolute…

... And that in itself opens up many lanes of fruitful discussion, because if we can identify where Aristotle goes wrong that will point out problem areas to expect to find in anyone who develops an elaborate theory from the same perspective.

First research indicates its heavily Aristotelian and considers Hedonism to be a problem.

I just found this: https://selfdeterminationtheory.org/topics/application-relationships/

I recently discovered Self-Determination Theory while doing online research, and I am finding it to be helpful. We see within Epicurean philosophy that friendship, self-sufficiency, and the skill of making prudent choices are important for creating a life of well-being. Self-Determination Theory (SDT) has aspects that touch on these Epicurean "goods", as you will see below. Here is an overview: Self-Determination Theory (SDT) originated through the work of psychologists Edward L. Deci and…

[…] Devin this would be an excellent topic to discuss whenever you are ready. Approach it however you wish here in this thread and we can move it later into a more appropriate forum if/when it gets long enough. Discussions of the meaning of limits of pleasure and how that relates to how to assess length of life are always of key interest.

@DevinH Welcome to the forum!

Welcome Devin!

Again, welcome DevinH - Your background indicates that you have lots to offer the discussions here. Take your time and weigh in on whatever areas interest you first and most. Your science / technical background gives you expertise that will be particularly useful in our "canonics" discussions on the nature of truth and reality, and how and when we move from the accumulation of evidence to the decision that we have enough information to take a firm position on a topic. That's what we've been…

Hi All! I’m excited to join the community, and I look forward to the discussions to come!

[…] Patrikios: Thanks for your post and I agree with your conclusion there. What we consider to be modern science reinforces Epicurean conclusions to the extent that it explores and brings to light new facts. We are always going to test our conclusions against facts and evidence, and welcome new instances of those, because we are committed to the truth and to making decisions based on truth, just as Epicurus was initially motivated to reject the "something from nothing" implications of the…

Welcome DevinH [URL:https://www.epicureanfriends.com/wcf/user/898-devinh/] !

Thanks DevinH for your detailed and very interesting post and the kind words about the podcast and the forum. We look forward to having you and to hearing much more from you!

Welcome @DevinH ! DevinH tells us: I've registered and confirmed my email. My username is: DevinH I have read and agree to the Community Standards, Rules, and Terms of Use, including the "Not Neo-Epicurean, But Epicurean" statement and the posting policy. I understand the forum is committed to classical Epicurean positions, and I'll participate on that basis. My background and interest: I'm a scientist ... I work in biotech process development. My footer may read as a lot of ambition.…

[…] @Patrikios I'd be curious to see more examples, and then I could soon set up another thread on this specific topic so that this can be easily found for future reference. If you want to reply here in this thread, and then I can later move all these relevant posts.

[…] @Cassius I am not clear what you are saying about modern science/psychology with your response to Kalosyni’s suggestion for ways to consider spreading the Epicurean ideas, or having a useful visual tool as we explain to others why we are practicing Epicurean principles. Let us consider the full context of @Kalosyni comment, asking what could be done with such a simple flow diagram. […] Here is an example (out of several ) I have found of modern Epicurean writers who have compared…

Welcome to Episode 359 of Lucretius Today. This is a podcast dedicated to the poet Lucretius, who wrote "On The Nature of Things," the most complete presentation of Epicurean philosophy left to us from the ancient world. Each week we walk you through the Epicurean texts, and we discuss how Epicurean philosophy can apply to you today. If you find the Epicurean worldview attractive, we invite you to join us in the study of Epicurus at EpicureanFriends.com, where we discuss this and all of our…

Summary Joshua returns, and Cassius and Joshua read Section 19 of Book Two of Cicero's Academic Questions, where Lucullus ends his defense of knowledge with a personal appeal to Cicero. Cicero has praised philosophy, yet he now follows a philosophy that "confounds what is true with what is false" and robs us of our senses. Even the Cimmerians, denied the light of the sun, had fires to see by, but the skeptics leave "not a single spark." Lucullus then throws Cicero's proudest moment in his…

Here [URL:https://www.originalsources.com/Document.aspx?DocID=YPKYIR8T8U645Y9] is a text purporting to be Julius Caesar's oration contra Cicero, "On the Punishment of the Catiline Conspirators", as preserved by Sallust [URL:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sallust]. This is the opening passage, in which Caesar raises the problem of detecting the truth when the mind is clouded by passions: […]

Lucretius Today Podcast Episode 358 is now available: "The Hypocrisy And Darkness of Academic Skepticism" https://www.spreaker.com/episode/76210924/media

In this week's episode - to be released soon - we continueto look at issues of practicality involved in taking a position on truth. In the end of the Stoic argument we came upon an interesting historical example that helps us test the question with a practical example. TheStanford Encyclopedia [URL:https://plato.stanford.edu/archives/spr2024/entries/cicero/] describes the issue - which involves questions of probability or plausibility that is "unimpeded" in this way. Much of the article is…

This is really interesting regarding the pleasure of listening to music, and other fascinating insights. […] Speaking of Psychology: Why does music move us? With Robert Zatorre, PhD https://www.apa.org/news/podcasts/speaking-of-psychology/music

[…] :thumbup: :thumbup: <3

[…] The first step is making clear what "this" means. Most of us here (including me) have a lot more to learn about what Epicurus and Lucretius really taught. And the bottom line is that they taught that the soul is material and is in no way supernatural and does not survive death. I am not aware that any new details of mechanics offered by "modern psychology and science" really have much to say on those ultimate conclusions. If one does not realize that a heap of sand is made of individual…

[…] I think Kalsyni is quoting a part of this sentence but the whole context helps. Diogenes Laertiius wrote that Epicurus held at line 117 of Book 10: […] So i'd say that discussion of "moderation of passions" needs to be clear that what we are talking about is not eliminating strong passions, because the wise man is going to work to feel them more deeply than others. Instead, when passions are treated wisely they are not an obstacle to wisdom but motivate us to work toward happiness.…

[…] The question is...does this help with understanding the Epicurean concepts...and can we then compare this with modern pyschology and science (and the understanding of clinical death and brain death).

[…] I'd venture to say that Epicurus never spoke this way. Also, from a modern psychology standpoint, t is actually healthy and motivates you to take action when you feel strong passions (or strong emotions/feelings) when you aren't getting your basic necessities for life met.

That seems pretty accurate to me and illustrates what can be done with these tools. The construction of models that make things clearer, combined with illustrations and other features ai can offer, looks to be a very productive way forward in exploring the texts. Where do you plan to take this? The issue always is going to be that the person generating the material needs to be closely involved in proofing it and discussing whether it is accurate or how it can be improved. Posts that are…