Posts by Kalosyni

Particularly this week, is another prime example of Cicero's use of rhetoric to twist and bend an argument.

I found this interesting article, which mainly talks about Cicero.

I happened upon this and wanted to share...have not read all the entries, but some aspects seem compatible to Epicureanism...looks to be helpful toward removing severe mental pains:

Learn Skills — Now Matters Now

No matter the kind of emotional hell you're in right now, there’s a way through

nowmattersnow.org

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What choice do you want to make today?

We use five choices to build meaningful lives and reduce pain. Each choice is connected to a series of evidence-based coping skills and resources.

Edit note: This website also gives resources to get out of suicidal ideation.

Quote from DaveT

Could there be a nugget later on that made it useful to me? Perhaps, but overall the paper didn't make me care enough to find out.

I feel very differently than you do DaveT and I think it provides an excellent springboard for discussing many aspects of death and dying. Perhaps you feel very confident that you have conquered all your fears for all aspects of death and pain. But for those of us who still have work to do, for the upcoming Fourth Sunday, I'll present some discussion questions which I believe will provide some helpful "existential therapy".

Likely some aspects of the paper will be used more "lightly" and other aspects more "deeply", so my goal is not to only approach it from an "academic" aspect, but also from human life and feeling.

Reading the article is optional for attendees, as I will do a short presentation before opening up the discussion.

--fyi to everyone--We are setting the Fourth Sunday to discuss this article--open to all fully registered members.

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Fourth Sunday Zoom - December 28, 2025 - Epicurean Philosophy Discussion - Agenda

Meeting Announcement: Sunday, December 28, 2025 - Epicurean Philosophy Discussion Via Zoom.

We will discuss the article: "Epicurus on the Politics of Fearing Death" by Emily Austin.

Here is a link to the post which contains the article link:

Article By Dr. Emily Austin - "Epicurus And The Politics Of The Fear Of Death" Fourth Sunday discussion is open to all forum members who have completed their registration by replying to their welcome thread.

If you have not previously attended a Sunday Zoom,…

Kalosyni

December 12, 2025 at 2:38 PM

Meeting Announcement: Sunday, December 28, 2025 - Epicurean Philosophy Discussion Via Zoom.

We will discuss the article: "Epicurus on the Politics of Fearing Death" by Emily Austin.

Here is a link to the post which contains the article link:

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Article By Dr. Emily Austin - "Epicurus And The Politics Of The Fear Of Death"

An article by Emily Austin that I don’t recall seeing on here:

https://www.academia.edu/14801045/Epicu…f_Fearing_Death

Pacatus

December 9, 2025 at 2:50 PM

Fourth Sunday discussion is open to all forum members who have completed their registration by replying to their welcome thread.

If you have not previously attended a Sunday Zoom, please message Cassius or Kalosyni to RSVP to this meeting. The Zoom link will be given out the day before the meeting.

We also look forward to seeing longterm members join in on this more active discussion meeting format (co-facilitated by Kalosyni).

Hope to see you there!

**************

Edit note: Reading the article is optional for attendees, as Kalosyni will do a short presentation before opening up the discussion.

In the real world of actual experience, I'd like to question whether or not you can easily separate the "fear of the state of being dead" from "the fear of the process of dying".

This year I got the flu twice, and it was really bad in January, and slightly not as painful when I got it at the start of November. Everyone knows both from experience and modern medicine that most people that are in generally good health recover from the flu. But imagine experiencing some sickness and not knowing if you were going to die from it. Even now with modern medicine, there are times when it is unclear if a sick or injured person is going to recover or eventually die, and so that uncertainty could cause anxiety.

It would seem that if you "feel okay with" the concept of death, then the process of dying should theoretically not cause as much anxiety.

Here is a movie that might go with this discussion:

I just found this, which has a lot more on a priori and a posteriori:

A Priori and A Posteriori | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

It seems like we must have some level of logic when we use words and speak - an example is "all bachelors are unmarried" which doesn't require sensation to understand. "On Methods of Inference" seems like an important source to incorporate.

Quoting Joshua, quoting the Letter to Herodotus:

[38] For this purpose it is essential that the first mental image associated with each word should be regarded, and that there should be no need of explanation, if we are really to have a standard to which to refer a problem of investigation or reflection or a mental inference. And besides we must keep all our investigations in accord with our sensations, and in particular with the immediate apprehensions whether of the mind or of any one of the instruments of judgment, and likewise in accord with the feelings existing in us, in order that we may have indications whereby we may judge both the problem of sense perception and the unseen.

Quote from Joshua

the difference between a priori and a posteriori claims of knowledge

I looked up the difference because I don't use those words in everyday life, and wanted to get a better understanding:

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The following is from Google AI:

A priori and a posteriori claims are types of knowledge distinguished by how they're justified:

A priori knowledge is independent of experience (e.g., math, logic, definitions like "bachelors are unmarried"), known through pure reason; A posteriori knowledge depends on empirical experience and observation (e.g., "it's raining," scientific facts). The former relies on thought, the latter on senses or data from the world.

A Priori Knowledge (From the Earlier)

• Definition: Knowledge justified independently of experience, often through understanding concepts or definitions.
• Key Idea: You don't need to go out into the world to verify it; understanding the terms is enough.
• Examples:
  • "All triangles have three sides."
  • "2 + 2 = 4."
  • "All bachelors are unmarried men." (True by definition)

A Posteriori Knowledge (From the Later)

• Definition: Knowledge justified through empirical evidence, observation, or experience.
• Key Idea: Requires stepping outside of pure thought to gather facts about the world.
• Examples:
  • "The sky is blue."
  • "Water boils at 100°C at sea level."
  • "Socrates is drinking wine." (Requires seeing or knowing about Socrates's actions)

Key Differences Summarized

• Source: A priori comes from reason/logic; A posteriori comes from senses/experience.
• Justification: A priori is conceptual; A posteriori is empirical.
• Necessity: A priori truths often seem necessary (couldn't be otherwise); A posteriori truths are often contingent (could have been different).

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I've just copied two good posts from that other thread, as they serve as part of an exploration regarding "reason vs. sensation". And this goes beyond just Epicurus vs Aristotle, and my hope is that we can shed light on some subtleties within Epicurean philosophy. Can talk more about these two posts I copied over from this standpoint

Because in some religious contexts reason is an earthly thing. There is the emphasis on faith within Christianity. And even in Buddhism there are some teaching that urge the practitioner to let their thinking mind drop away (meaning that reason doesn't bring enlightenment).

I would like to suggest that Epicurus embraces many aspects of sensation but also rejects certain aspects (such things as "dionysian" frenzy). And Epicurus embraces many aspects of reason but also rejects certain aspects. And I think it would be very important for us to get clear about what is embraced and what is rejected...perhaps a visual table would be helpful (with references).

Quote from Kalosyni

my question deals both with "the telos" and with the definition of "pleasure"...of course we have talked about these many times in many threads here on the forum.

Here is a recent thread which brings up good points:

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'Their God Is The Belly" / "The Root of All Good Is The Pleasure Of The Stomach" And Similar Attributions

This weekend in our Sunday zoom which was devoted substantially to food issues we tangentially discussed the statements that I gather are traditionally attributed to Metrodorus to the effect that the stomach or belly is of particular significance.

I thought I'd paste the following here as what appears to be the major source of this, and repeat my belief that general statements of this type should be viewed with caution. These sources (particularly Plutarch) are substantially hostile, and I am…

Cassius

November 24, 2025 at 9:55 AM

This is facinating:

Giant rotating string of galaxies is 'probably the largest spinning object' in the known universe

A giant rotating filament of the cosmic web may be the largest spinning structure ever seen, and could help reveal how galaxies form.

www.livescience.com

Also this Reuters article.

Cassius do we have a place for these science type articles?

Cassius my question deals both with "the telos" and with the definition of "pleasure"...of course we have talked about these many times in many threads here on the forum.

Making a quick comparison between Epicurus and Aristotle could look like this:

Epicurus = "pleasure" is the telos (end) of the best life and the word "pleasure" leads most people to hear that Epicurus gave more importance to bodily sensation.

vs.

Aristotle = "living well and doing well" is the telos (end) of the best life and humans find their highest fulfillment in exercising reason, especially through contemplation.

Don Have you looked at Aristotle's book 10 ? (which is where the Google AI suggested).

Quote from Don

Work in progress, naturally.

Wow Don, that's amazing! I will check it out!

In reaction to a recent post with a song titled "Cheese on Bread", I've been thinking about the role of reason, and for Epicureans we have the Letter to Menoeceus... but also I've been wondering about reason according to Aristotle...and I did a quick search:

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The following is an AI response:

Aristotle articulated the idea that humans find their highest fulfillment in exercising reason, especially through contemplation, making it a key part of a flourishing life.

In his Nicomachean Ethics, in Book 10, he defines the highest human good (eudaimonia or flourishing) as the excellent exercise of reason, culminating in the contemplative life, which he saw as the most divine and self-sufficient human activity, superior to political or practical life.

Here's a breakdown of where to find these concepts:

• Nicomachean Ethics, Book 1, Chapter 7: Aristotle introduces the idea that human flourishing (eudaimonia) involves fulfilling our unique function (ergon), which he identifies as the activity of the soul in accordance with reason or virtue.
• Nicomachean Ethics, Book 10, Chapters 7-8: This is where Aristotle makes his strongest case for contemplation (the life of the intellect and philosophical inquiry) as the highest form of human activity, superior to the practical life of politics or ethics because it's more self-sufficient, continuous, and akin to the gods.
• Core Concept: Eudaimonia: His entire ethical framework, detailed in the Nicomachean Ethics, centers on eudaimonia, the idea that true happiness isn't fleeting pleasure but a state of living well and doing well, achieved through virtuous activity, especially intellectual virtue.

In essence, Aristotle argues that while living virtuously in society (practical wisdom, moral virtues) is crucial, the ultimate fulfillment comes from exercising our highest faculty—reason—through contemplation, making it the pinnacle of a flourishing human life.

Epicurus talks about the life of reason and philosophy in the Letter to Menoeceus, and so he would agree with Aristotle about the importance of reason, and yet we have the idea that Epicurus said that the highest good is "pleasure"... and which can end up pointing to "cheese on bread".

So how do we make sense of this? Maybe we need a deeper compare and contrast between Epicurus and Aristotle? And also I think we need to have a more clear definition of "pleasure" and specific activities of what the mind should be engaged in? Wouldn't Epicurus think that reason is more important than the types of food one eats?

And...Is there any truth to thinking that "sensation seeking" is in competition with "exercising the mind of reason"?

Happy Birthday! EdGenX

Welcome to the EpicureanFriends forum! EdGenX

This is an interesting video:

Aristarchus of Samos proposed a heliocentric model, but this idea did not find wide acceptance among ancient philosophers, due to a lack of observable stellar parallax.

DaveT

The updated "Forum Navigation Map" is now added to the dropdown menu under "Forum".

We now also have an updated "Forum Shortcuts" (I'll be making a few more adjustments to that). Also found in the dropdown menu under "Forum".

Quote from Raphael Raul

Hello Kalosyni, thanks for sharing the link to the 2010 interview with Ludwig Minelli.

I just now read that interview (which was linked within the quoted text)...I had been focusing on the main article about his death (linked in the big box above the quote.)

Thank you Raphael Raulthe additional article on David Goodall is also good to read.

Two types of situations here: 1) those with a terminal illness and who want assistance; 2) those who are old and have poor quality of life, but haven't been diagnosed with a terminal illness, and yet want assistance.

The "death with dignity" is so much better than having to come up with one's own method.

I thought it might be good to post this, since we have talked about "death with dignity" here on the forum. Here is a news article about him:

Ludwig Minelli: Dignitas founder dies by assisted suicide aged 92, group says

Ludwig Minelli founded the group in 1998, which has since helped thousands of people to die.

www.bbc.com

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Across his life, he campaigned passionately for the right to die, giving Dignitas the slogan "dignity in life, dignity in death".

In a 2010 interview with the BBC, he said: "I am persuaded that we have to struggle in order to implement the last human right in our societies. And the last human right is the right to make a decision on one's own end, and the possibility to have this end without risk and without pain."