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Posts by Don

New Graphics: Are You On Team Epicurus? | Comparison Chart: Epicurus vs. Other Philosophies | Chart Of Key Epicurean Quotations | Accelerating Study Of Canonics Through Philodemus' "On Methods Of Inference" | Note to all users: If you have a problem posting in any forum, please message Cassius  

  • Forward vs Backward Momentum

    • Don
    • September 28, 2024 at 7:44 AM

    Speaking of "inscriptions"...

    A Hellenic or Roman Marble Statue Face (2nd-1st Century BC), of a goddess defaced with a Christian cross during the Late Antique Period. The cross was carved by a Christian, who damaged the face representation of the goddess. Crosses were also sometimes carved on ancient statues to Christianize them for reuse as images of saints. The artifact is now located in the Archeological Museum of Samos in Greece.

    "From the 6th Century BC, through the 4th Century AD, sculpture had been created and destroyed, stolen and repositioned, but always prominently displayed and used in the context of Corinthian religion, economic activity, and urban life. Yet from about the 5th Century, creation of new work dropped off rapidly, preceded by a decline in technical ability and availability of raw materials, and closely followed by the defacement and then destruction of most of what existed in public and private contexts.

    Between the 5th-10th Centuries, the only new sculpture created at Corinth was in the form of architectural members or Christian reliefs for church decoration, while ancient sculpture of “pagan” or “secular” significance alike was steadily marked with crosses, defaced, cut up, reused, or melted down. This new attitude to sculpture was a fundamental change of Late Antiquity, as individually and collectively people both ceased to create new sculpture, and undertook the actual physical destruction of most of what existed.

    This late antique change in attitude to sculpture happened all across the Roman Empire, and led both individuals and groups to behave toward the sculpted environment in new and hostile ways."

    Amelia R. Brown, “Crosses, noses, walls and wells: Christianity and the fate of sculpture in late antique Corinth” (copied from Twitter/X @archeohistories)

  • Welcome SillyApe

    • Don
    • September 27, 2024 at 10:24 AM

    Welcome aboard!

    In the end, we're all silly apes just trying to enjoy our time in the world ^^

  • Forward vs Backward Momentum

    • Don
    • September 25, 2024 at 6:24 AM
    Quote from Julia

    I'll try and see if I can get a nice NFFNSNC ring or pendant somehow.

    :thumbup:

    For any readers coming across this at random:

    Non Fui, Fui, Non Sum, Non Curo

    I was not; I was; I am not; I care not.

    I also found an alternate version online:

    Non Fui, Fui, Memini, Non Sum, Non Curo

    I was not; I was; I remember; I am not; I care not.

    That strikes me as almost even more Epicurean than the other version. "The inscription is “To the gods, underworld spirits: I did not exist. I existed. I remember. I do not exist. I don’t care. I, Donnia Italia, twenty years old, rest here. Sminthius and Donnia Calliste to their very loyal freedwoman {D(is) I(nferis) M(anibus), non fui fui memini non sum non curo Donnia Italia, annnorum XX, hic qui esco Sm[in]t(h)ius et Donnia Calliste, l(ibertae) piissimae}.” 1st-2nd century CE, now housed at the Eugène-Camoreyt Museum in France."

    I myself carry around on my keychain a ring of beads spelling SFOTSE "Sic fac omnia tamquam spectet Epicurus." Do all things as if Epicurus were watching (quote from Seneca's letter)

  • No Supernatural Entities, Forces, or Powers and No Ghosts

    • Don
    • September 24, 2024 at 5:42 PM

    Honestly, I'm a little embarrassed for my profession. sigh. A classic example of patron-driven collection development ... gone awry, in my opinion.

    (Rant complete....Steps down off soapbox)

  • Festivals in Ancient Greece

    • Don
    • September 21, 2024 at 11:17 PM

    FYI here's the ancient Greek calendar along with festivals from the Hellenion group of pagans:

    Calendar – Hellenion

    Looks like today is right in the middle of the Greater Eleusinian Mysteries

    Eleusinian Mysteries / Eleusinia ta megala – Hellenion

    Philodemus mentions Epicurus taking part in the Mysteries at Athens.

  • «Embraced (Entangled) Forever and Ever» (Post By Elli At Facebook from Dimitri Liantinis - Excerpt From Gemma)

    • Don
    • September 21, 2024 at 3:42 PM

    Coming from a position of ignorance:

    Does this all have to do with Planck units?

    Planck units - Wikipedia

  • «Embraced (Entangled) Forever and Ever» (Post By Elli At Facebook from Dimitri Liantinis - Excerpt From Gemma)

    • Don
    • September 20, 2024 at 5:54 PM

    I'm sorry. I cast an extremely skeptical eye on anything that tries to equate ancient Epicurean physics and modern quantum theory.

    Epicurus was good, but he wasn't *that* good.

    Granted, I say the same things about any Buddhist trying to pull the same trick btw (ex, The Tao of Physics)

  • Epicureanism During the Middle Ages

    • Don
    • September 20, 2024 at 6:36 AM
    Aurélien Robert, Épicure aux enfers. Hérésie, athéisme et hédonisme...
    Spécialiste de la philosophie médiévale et de la Renaissance, en particulier de l’atomisme, Aurélien Robert consacre un ouvrage à l’histoire de la réputation…
    journals.openedition.org


    Aurélien Robert, Épicure aux enfers. Hérésie, athéisme et hédonisme...
    En dépit de ce que le titre semble en première lecture suggérer, le livre d’Aurélien Robert (= A. R.), Épicure aux Enfers, est moins la reconstruction d’une…
    journals.openedition.org


    Thread

    Aurelian Robert and His Book "Epicurus in The Underworld"

    epicureanfriends.com/wcf/attachment/1666/ This comes from Facebook - I hope we can encourage him to post here as well:



    I am very pleased to announce the publication of my book: Epicurus in the Underworld. Heresy, atheism and hedonism in the Middle Ages, published by Fayard, Paris (in French). Here is the link to the publisher's website, where you can read a few pages and buy the book (with links to many bookshops online). With a lot of pleasure!

    …
    Cassius
    February 26, 2021 at 3:37 PM
  • Episode 246 - Cicero's OTNOTG 21 - Examining Epicurean Evidence-Based Reasoning

    • Don
    • September 17, 2024 at 6:57 PM

    Still one of my favorite memes...

  • Episode 246 - Cicero's OTNOTG 21 - Examining Epicurean Evidence-Based Reasoning

    • Don
    • September 17, 2024 at 6:20 PM

    Did you mean to upload twice? This is what I'm seeing on my podcast app:

  • Modern Scientific Challenges To Theory That Universe Had A "Big Bang" Beginning

    • Don
    • September 17, 2024 at 8:11 AM

    For context, WP provides some background:

    Tired light - Wikipedia
    en.wikipedia.org
  • Luck

    • Don
    • September 16, 2024 at 8:14 PM

    More examples...

    U489

    489. Nature teaches us to think nothing of what fortune brings, to understand that when prospering we are unfortunate and when not prospering we are fortunate, to receive undisturbed the good things that fortune brings and to stand ready for its seeming evils. For what is good or evil to most people is fleeting, and wisdom has nothing in common with fortune.

    καὶ τὰ παρὰ τῆς τύχης μικρότερα (ἡ φύσις) διδάσκει νομίζειν, καὶ εὐτυχοῦντας μὲν γινώσκειν ἀτυχεῖν, δυστυχοῦντας δὲ μὴ παρὰ μέγα τίθεσθαι ὄν τὸ εὐτυχεῖν, καὶ δέχεσθαι μὲν ἀθορύβως τὰ παρὰ τῆς τύχης ἀγαθά, παρατετάχσθαι δὲ πρὸς τὰ παρʼ αὐτῆς δοκοῦντα εἶναι κακά· ὡς ἐφήμερον μὲν πᾶν τὸ τῶν πολλῶν ἀγαθόν ἐστι καὶ κακὸν, σοφία δὲ οὐδαμῶς τύχῃ κοινωνεῖ.

    VS17

    It is not the young man who is most happy, but the old man who has lived beautifully; for despite being at his very peak the young man stumbles around by chance as if he were of many minds, whereas the old man has settled into old age as if in a harbor, secure in his gratitude for the good things he was once unsure of.

    οὐ νέος μακαριστὸς ἀλλὰ γέρων βεβιωκὼς καλῶς· ὁ γὰρ νέος ἀκμῇ πολὺς ὑπὸ τῆς τύχης ἑτεροφρονῶν πλάζεται· ὁ δὲ γέρων καθάπερ ἐν λιμένι τῷ γήρᾳ καθώρμικεν, τὰ πρότερον δυσελπιστούμενα τῶν ἀγαθῶν ἀσφαλεῖ κατακλείσας χάριτι.

    VS67

    67. A free person is unable to acquire great wealth, because that is not easily achieved without enslavement to the masses or to the powers that be. Instead, he already has everything he needs, and in abundance. But if by chance he should have great wealth, he could easily share it with his fellows to win their goodwill.

    ἐλεύθερος βίος οὐ δύναται κτήσασθαι χρήματα πολλὰ διὰ τὸ τὸ πρᾶγμα <μὴ> ῥᾴδιον εἶναι χωρὶς θητείας ὄχλων ἢ δυναστῶv, ἀλλὰ συνεχεῖ δαψιλείᾳ πάντα κέκτηται· ἄν δέ που καὶ τύχῃ χρημάτων πολλῶv, καὶ ταῦτα ῥᾳδίως ἃν εἰς τὴν τοῦ πλησίον εὔνοιαν διαμετρήσαι.

  • Luck

    • Don
    • September 16, 2024 at 5:05 PM

    Mathematical probabilities. There are a number of quotes from the Epicurean texts that address this idea, especially:

    Quote from Epicurus, Letter to Menoikeus

    [133] "Who, then, is superior in thy judgement to such a man ? He holds a holy belief concerning the gods, and is altogether free from the fear of death. He has diligently considered the end fixed by nature, and understands how easily the limit of good things can be reached and attained, and how either the duration or the intensity of evils is but slight. Destiny, which some introduce as sovereign over all things, he laughs to scorn, affirming rather that some things happen of necessity, others by chance, others through our own agency. For he sees that necessity destroys responsibility and that chance or fortune is inconstant ; whereas our own actions are free, and it is to them that praise and blame naturally attach. [134] It were better, indeed, to accept the legends of the gods than to bow beneath that yoke of destiny which the natural philosophers have imposed. The one holds out some faint hope that we may escape if we honour the gods, while the necessity of the naturalists is deaf to all entreaties. Nor does he hold chance to be a god, as the world in general does, for in the acts of a god there is no disorder ; nor to be a cause, though an uncertain one, for he believes that no good or evil is dispensed by chance to men so as to make life blessed, though it supplies the starting-point of great good and great evil. He believes that the misfortune of the wise is better than the prosperity of the fool. [135] It is better, in short, that what is well judged in action should not owe its successful issue to the aid of chance.

    Replace "chance" with "luck" and that's a pretty good summary of Epicurus's views.

  • Unfortunate Use of Bust of Epicurus

    • Don
    • September 16, 2024 at 7:25 AM
    Quote from Cassius

    So maybe I shouldn't take such a dim view of the collage -- if we could all receive a blood transfusion from Epicurus, we'd probably all be much better off! We may have to adopt that kind of imagery ourselves at some point! ;)

    I do hope you're being intentionally provocative, because I come to the opposite view. Epicurus is very clear that we have to do our own work. Too many commentators take Epicurus's "dogmatic" position to mean blind loyalty. I go back to its literal Greek use of taking a position vs remaining skeptical of everything. Using that "blood transfusion" metaphor, to me, plays into that erroneous stereotype, even in jest.

  • Episode 246 - Cicero's OTNOTG 21 - Examining Epicurean Evidence-Based Reasoning

    • Don
    • September 16, 2024 at 7:04 AM

    Herodotus, 10.38 (Hicks)

    Next, we must by all means stick to our sensations, that is, simply to the present impressions whether of the mind or of any criterion whatever, and similarly to our actual feelings, in order that we may have the means of determining that which needs confirmation and that which is obscure.

    "Ἔτι τε44 τὰς αἰσθήσεις δεῖ πάντως τηρεῖν καὶ ἁπλῶς τὰς παρούσας ἐπιβολὰς εἴτε διανοίας εἴθ᾽ ὅτου δήποτε τῶν κριτηρίων, ὁμοίως δὲ καὶ τὰ ὑπάρχοντα παθη, ὅπως ἂν καὶ τὸ προσμένον καὶ τὸ ἄδηλον ἔχωμεν οἷς σημειωσόμεθα.

    Quote from Cassius

    I can't confirm the Greek, but, for example, it seems important in this passage that the phrasing would be "perceptIBLE" (able to be perceived) rather than "that which has already been perceived.

    That passage doesn't seem to do what you want. I read it as:

    τὰς παρούσας ἐπιβολὰς "the present impressions"

    παρούσας is "of things, to be by, i.e. ready or at hand; to be present in or at." These are the impressions of the mind being experienced. So, it seems to me to be neither "perceptIBLE" (able to be perceived)" nor "that which has already been perceived" but what is present at the moment, at least in this particular passage.

    τὰ ὑπάρχοντα παθη (ta hyparkhonta pathē) "the actual feelings"

    ὑπάρχοντα is "to be already in existence; to be laid down, to be taken for granted." We need to take our feelings - pathē - of pleasure/pain into account.

    This passage says to me we need to use what we have experienced or are experiencing to determine the nature of that which needs additional evidence or that which is unseen or not evident to the senses.

  • Unfortunate Use of Bust of Epicurus

    • Don
    • September 15, 2024 at 8:07 PM

    In deference to the author, I'm sure they had nothing to do with the illustration. Some Guardian staff artist used a composite of Getty Images they found. Sloppy. At least it wasn't AI??

  • Unfortunate Use of Bust of Epicurus

    • Don
    • September 15, 2024 at 12:58 PM
    Blood, sweat and testes: rich men have always wanted to live for ever
    Today’s dubious anti-ageing treatments look at lot like those of history. Just look at Louis XIII or Pope Innocent VIII
    www.theguardian.com

    The illustrator used a bust of Epicurus for an article about wanting to live forever throughout history. I can't think of a more inappropriate historical figure to use for an illustration than Epicurus :rolleyes:?(

  • How Would Epicurus Analyze The Faulkner Quotation: "Between Grief And Nothing, I'll Take Grief"

    • Don
    • September 15, 2024 at 8:04 AM
    Quote from Cassius

    I'm still not clear at all as to the original intent of the statement - as to how broadly it was to be applied.

    Only way to find that out is to read Faulkner's Wild Palms ^^ (also published as If I Forget Thee, O Jerusalem)

    If I forget thee, Jerusalem : the wild palms | WorldCat.org
    'Between grief and nothing I will take grief'. In New Orleans in 1937, a man and woman embark on a headlong flight into the wilderness of illicit passion,…
    search.worldcat.org
    Quote from Publisher's description

    Summary:'Between grief and nothing I will take grief'. In New Orleans in 1937, a man and woman embark on a headlong flight into the wilderness of illicit passion, fleeing her husband and the temptations of respectability. In Mississippi ten years earlier, a convict sets forth across a flooded river, risking his one chance at freedom to rescue a pregnant woman. From these separate stories Faulkner composes a symphony of deliverance and damnation, survival and self-sacrifice, a novel in which elemental danger is juxtaposed with fatal injuries of the spirit.-Publisher's description

    See also...

    If I Forget Thee, Jerusalem - Wikipedia
    en.wikipedia.org
  • How Would Epicurus Analyze The Faulkner Quotation: "Between Grief And Nothing, I'll Take Grief"

    • Don
    • September 14, 2024 at 9:31 PM

    ...when she became not then half of memory became not and if I become not then all of remembering will cease to be.—Yes, he thought, between grief and nothing I will take grief. Harry Wilbourne, in (Ch. 9) "Wild Palms"; p. 324 (Faulkner's italics)

    The full context appears to be about forgetting someone you care about. The grief is better than the nothing, than the absence of the person's memory. I could easily think of contexts that Epicurus might lean toward that sentiment.

    [ U213 ]

    Plutarch, That Epicurus actually makes a pleasant life impossible, 28, p. 1105D: If then, "the memory of a dead friend is pleasant on every count" as Epicurus said, we need no more to make us see the great delight that they renounce when, although they suppose that they can receive and capture the apparitions and likenesses of dead companions {in dreams?} – images that have neither mind nor feeling – they do not think they will ever again meet those friends themselves, or ever again see a dear father or dear mother or perhaps a gentle wife, and have not even the hope of such company.

    Cf. Seneca, Letters to Lucilius, 63.7: Thinking of departed friends is to me something sweet and mellow.

  • Welcome PGannon!

    • Don
    • September 13, 2024 at 8:33 AM

    Welcome aboard!

    You'll find a lot of discussion around here on the practical application of Epicurean philosophy along with deep dives into the finer points of the philosophy. The forum has something for everyone with a curiosity about the topic.

    One point I've come to appreciate over the years - especially though Cassius's perspective - is that the the ethics don't stand alone. Epicurus built his philosophy from the ground up, so the ethics is firmly grounded on the physics and the canonic faculties of pleasure/pain, sensations, and anticipations (although there's still plenty of discussion on what that last one entails!). Epicurus stands firm that we live in a completely material universe, governed by natural forces. That for me is the foundation, the starting point.

    Have fun! Look forward to your contributions to the conversation.

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  • Episode 339 - EATAQ21 - Not Yet Recorded - We Continue Into Section 9 of Book 2 of Academic Questions

    Cassius June 20, 2026 at 2:48 PM

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