Posts by Don

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  • The attitude to have when working at your Job

    Quote from reneliza
    Quote from Godfrey

    are you trying to paper over misery with a coating of pleasure?

    Just out of curiosity - is this what Epicurus was doing in his final days when he was (apparently) cheerful and in high spirits even though he was in tremendous pain? Where is the line drawn for when it's ideal to find pleasure in less than ideal circumstances and when that's a delusion being used to mask the pain?

    I get the impression that Godfrey was referring to when we try fooling ourselves. With Epicurus, no doubt that he felt and acknowledged his pain - no getting around that - but he could also experience pleasure in the memory of talking with friends. What he wrote was:

    My continual sufferings from strangury and dysentery are so great that nothing could augment them ; but over against them all I set gladness of mind at the remembrance of our past conversations.

    The word for "over against them" had the connotation of holding ground against as in the line of battle. So, he was in great pain, but he fought against that - arrayed himself against that - with memories of friendship. He didn't paper over anything, he used his life's philosophy to fight against what would otherwise have been overwhelming and what did in short order actual kill him.

  • "Epicurean Mission and Membership" - Very Interesting Article by MacGilivray On Ancient Epicurean Missionary Spirit

    Quote from Cassius

    So we have to do both: study the details of the Greek and be sure we get the most accurate understanding of it, and then re-express the same thoughts in understandable English

    :) Which is exactly what I was trying to provide in my letter to Menoikeus to give people a gateway to the original language and to allow them to arrive at a personal, meaningful paraphrase for themselves.

  • "Epicurean Mission and Membership" - Very Interesting Article by MacGilivray On Ancient Epicurean Missionary Spirit

    Not sure if you saw this, but here's another later paper by the same author:

    Epitomizing Philosophy and the Critique of Epicurean Popularizers. Journal of Ancient History 3.1 (2015), pp.22-54.
    This study explores the concern in Epicureanism to create brief renderings of its philosophical tenets. It is argued that although the Epicureans were…
    www.academia.edu

  • The attitude to have when working at your Job

    Greek Word Study Tool

    Not to belabor this any longer than necessary, but I also found the very end of that saying enjoyable as well:

    ἐκ τῆς ὀρθῆς φιλοσοφίας φωνὰς ἀφιέντας.

    ek tēs orthēs philosophias phōnas aphientas.

    That last word, translated as "recount" had the connotation (see LSJ entry above) of "let loose" or "let fly from oneself." So, I see echoes of the epicurean "triumph-song" noted elsewhere in the texts. Let loose, baby!!

    The orthēs is the same ortho- as in orthodox or orthography.

  • The attitude to have when working at your Job

    Quote from Eoghan Gardiner

    41. At one and the same time we must philosophize, laugh, and manage our household and other business, while never ceasing to proclaim the words of true philosophy.

    41. One must laugh and seek wisdom and tend to one's home life and use one's other goods, and always recount the pronouncements of true philosophy. γελᾶν ἅμα δεῖ (one must) καὶ φιλοσοφεῖν (philosophein) καὶ οἰκονομεῖν καὶ τοῖς λοιποῖς οἰκειώμασι χρῆσθαι καὶ μηδαμῇ λήγειν τὰς ἐκ τῆς ὀρθῆς φιλοσοφίας φωνὰς ἀφιέντας.

    I wanted to comment on the translation Eoghan Gardiner used initially. Plus, to me this sounds like mindfulness! Do all while philosophizing.

    I like to note that several translations put philosophize first when instead the first word in Greek is γελᾶν, the infinitive of γελάω "laugh." So the emphasis is on the laughing first. Syntax not being constrained by word order like English (Joe bit the dog vs The dog but Joe), ancient Greek can choose what to emphasize by word order. The translations should really be something like: "One must laugh and - at the same time - pursue the love wisdom, administer the rest of one's household affairs,..." I really like the coupling of laughing and philosophizing. I wonder if this is an echo of Democritus.

  • The attitude to have when working at your Job

    Good post!

    Even jobs we've chosen can sometimes overwhelm us. I have Vatican Saying 35 hanging in my office pointing toward my desk to remind me of this. It doesn't mean we can't always look for new opportunities if the chance comes, but ...

    VS35 Don't ruin the things you have by wanting what you don't have, but realize that they too are things you once did wish for. οὐ δεῖ λυμαίνεσθαι τὰ παρόντα τῶν ἀπόντων ἐπιθυμίᾳ, ἀλλʼ ἐπιλογίζεσθαι ὅτι καὶ ταῦτα τῶν εὐκταίων ἦν.

    I try to remember that going to work is a choice. We always have the choice to not go to work. But would that choice give us pleasure or pain? Most likely, in the end, we wouldn't have enough money if we didn't go to work, so we go. Can we look for a different job? Of course! But that isn't always feasible with health care being job-tied at least in the US. I like the attitude Eoghan Gardiner is putting forward. That coupled with VS35 can hopefully get us through the day.

  • Atlantic article about enjoyment vs. pleasure

    Well put, Joshua .

    I get the impression that the Cyrenaics felt that the only pleasure worth considering was the one you're experiencing *right now.* There's some nuance to that statement, but, by and large, that seems to be their position. In the immortal words of Janis Joplin, "get it while you can!" Epicurus's philosophy was a direct repudiation of the cyrenaic position in that he advocated taking pleasure in past pleasures as well as looking forward to future pleasures and mental pleasure like this was worthwhile. According to the Cyrenaics, physical pleasure experienced here right now is the only worthwhile pleasure, the only pleasure you're sure of. Mental pleasure -pleasure experienced only in the mind as memory or anticipation - doesn't count.

  • Atlantic article about enjoyment vs. pleasure

    Epicurean versus Cyrenaic happiness
    Epicurean versus Cyrenaic happiness
    www.academia.edu

    Here's a Sedley paper on that topic.

    Quote

    Aristippus…advised people not to pain themselves either in memory of what is past or in anticipation of future events (μήτε τοῖς παρελθοῦσιν ἐπικάμνειν μήτε τῶν ἐπιόντων προκάμνειν).…His advice was to keep one’s thought focused on the day, and in fact on that part of the day in which one was carrying out this or that action or thought. For only the present is ours, he said, unlike what is already over and what is still awaited, of which the former has perished, while with the latter it is unclear whether it will be.

  • The Last Words of Charles Darwin

    Quote from Joshua

    "Peccantem me quotidie, et non poenitentem, timor mortis conturbat me. Quia in inferno nulla est redemptio, miserere mei, Deus, et salva me." Sinning daily, and not repenting, the fear of death disturbs me. For there is no redemption in Hell, have mercy on me, o God, and save me.

    Subtle, they are not. Are they? ^^ Lordy! Paian Anax!

    "Be afraid! Be afraid!! We're your only hope of missing eternal torment! Did we say 'eternal'?!"

    Bah!

    PS: They encourage you to remember death to scare you about the possibility of eternal damnation. Epicureans remember death to remind us to pay heed to the sweetness of life in the here and now.

  • Atlantic article about enjoyment vs. pleasure

    Quote from reneliza

    So I have a degree in neuroscience (which does contribute to my understanding that the mind/soul are of nature)

    You might be interested in some of my posts and others on the brain research of Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett

    Search Results - Epicureanfriends.com
    www.epicureanfriends.com

    as well as Dr. Anna Lembke.

    I found both of their books to be fascinating and, for me, to have some real intersections with Epicurean philosophy. Barrett and Feldman aren't Epicurueans, but I found their work to be helpful in bringing Epicuruean insights into a modern framework.

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