Posts by Kalosyni

Quote from Rolf

But that’s only your preference in extravagant desires, right?

I am not sure what you are saying here... can you rephrase your idea with different words to help me understand?

Quote from Rolf

statement about what media an epicurean should or should not engage with (so long as it does not lead to more pain than pleasure).

You are right, because pain and pleasure is subjective, so I can only talk about my own pain and pleasure.

Quote from Rolf

It reminds me of the Christians who refuse to let their kids read Harry Potter because magic is satanic.

I don't think Epicurean philosophy would say Harry Potter is satanic, ...however Harry Potter it is promoting "superstition" and that the material can be affected in a non-material way ...and so it is really the same as Christianity, just packaged differently.

Quote from Godfrey

A wealth of pleasures are waiting to be had, if one chooses wisely.

Yes, and there are certainly movies that do not use gratuitous violence or other unpleasant aspects or characters - for those like myself who tends toward "high emotional absorption" (empathy).

Quote from Kalosyni

to observe their sense of whether or not they are feeling more pleasure than pain. It is a subjective thing for everyone.

Another thought...to ask: Is it making a person happy or helping to create a sense of well-being? Or is it causing sadness, anxiety, or un-easiness?

Everything is subjective, and affects people differently.

Quote from Rolf

As long as watching movies leads to more pleasure than pain, and for many (myself included) it does, then what's the harm?

Yes, I see your point and stand corrected.

I'll think about how to express my thoughts about movies in a such a way that it simply suggests for those who do watch movies, to observe their sense of whether or not they are feeling more pleasure than pain. It is a subjective thing for everyone.

Quote from Rolf

1) While movies can be valuable tools for exploring philosophy, they are rarely a perfect depiction of Epicurean principles unless that’s the filmmaker's intention. I believe it’s crucial that we acknowledge where a movie and its characters align with the philosophy and where they diverge. Not all elements of a film will resonate with Epicurean thought.

2) At the same time, I believe that almost any movie can be analyzed through an Epicurean lens, particularly if we operate under the assumption of psychological hedonism. After all, most characters are in pursuit of pleasure and avoiding pain, though they may differ in how effectively they navigate that pursuit. Examining this aspect of characters’ motivations can provide insights into the challenges they face in seeking pleasure—whether it's through their choices, desires, or failures.

Many movies are 1) "good" vs "evil" - people trying to escape aliens, apocalypse, war, bad people, or death; or 2) people doing foolish/unethical things and having bad consequences or terrible unhappiness; or 3) people involved with supernatural/superstitious elements (fantasy genre) and which also contains elements of 1 and 2.

During the time I was married, I watched a lot of movies with my then husband (usually drama, independent, and foreign) and so perhaps I've had my fill (and I no longer have much of an urge to watch movies).

As Epicureans, if we lived in communites with other Epicureans, then we would not have time for movies - we would be busy doing "barn-raisings" and helping each other out to be self-sufficient, and having potlucks dinners together.

I think movies are "sold" to the masses by the few who are the "movie-makers". And you really need to ask yourself: What kinds of messages are they conveying? What thoughts are they "telling" you to think? And are they ramping up your internal fears of death?

Also, most movie plots are the opposite of this:

VS72: "He who is as peace within himself also causes no trouble for others."

But this is just my opinion, and others here might feel differently.

Quote from Patrikios

This cuts into dinner time and PBS Newshour time for some

Thanks for speaking up...we can likely come up with more ideas...

Coming up next week...our monthly 20th gathering

For Level 03 and above -- we will send out the link a day before. If you are Level 03 and have not yet attended, let us know if you are interested and we will add you to the private group which receives the link.

Looking forward to seeing you there

So potentially we will have "First Mondays" start a half hour early and run from 7:30pm ET till 9pm ET.

And what will be the time for Sundays ? And once per month?

Quote from sanantoniogarden

I like the simplicity of the moon symbol, however it's similarity to the crescent and star might be confusing for some and offensive to others.

Yes, now I begin to think that could be an issue.

Also maybe looks "wiccan".

Thinking to set this idea aside for now.

Also, it seems that usefulness may come first and then the more it is used the more "feeling" it has. And some may feel it is useful, and some may not feel it is useful (lol)...and so everyone can make their own symbols.

But I like this concept that Eikadistes made some time ago... I've made it as a plain symbol without words:

Since the Epicureans did attend and celebrate the monthly festivals, perhaps they focused on the positive attributes, and according to PD01: "That which is blissful and immortal has no troubles itself, nor does it cause trouble for others, so that it is not affected by anger or gratitude (for all such things come about through weakness)".

Here's a list of their positive strengths (from Google search):

• Zeus (Jupiter): King of the gods, god of the sky, law, and order, often associated with strength and justice.
• Hera (Juno): Queen of the gods, goddess of marriage, childbirth, and family, known for her protectiveness and strength.
• Athena (Minerva): Goddess of wisdom, strategic warfare, and crafts, embodying intelligence and skill.
• Apollo (Apollo): God of music, healing, arts, and light, associated with beauty and inspiration.
• Aphrodite (Venus): Goddess of love, beauty, and desire, embodying grace and passion.
• Demeter (Ceres): Goddess of agriculture, fertility, and the harvest, symbolizing abundance and nurturing.
• Hephaestus (Vulcan): God of fire, metalworking, and craftsmanship, known for his skill and innovation.
• Hermes (Mercury): Messenger of the gods, god of travel, trade, and hospitality, representing swiftness and communication.

This study goup would also be open to older members as well, so it isn't limited to newer members.

Admin Edit: We have now added a new weekly meeting on Sunday afternoons 12:30 ET. For more info go here.

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This thread is for discussing the potential of adding a regular Zoom for those who want an introductory level approach.

Our current meetings are as follows:

• Our First Monday session is a once per month meet and greet targeted at new participants.
  
• Our Wednesday night EST meeting have been devoted to status updates on recent threads on the forum and going through the fragments in Bryan's work on Usener's Epicurea.

(Our Twentieth session is only available for Level 03 and higher, and is a once per month commemoration of Epicurus and other early Epicureans, and we've been using it for advanced level general discussion of how we've pursued applying Epicurean principles over the last 30 days).

The thought is that we need a regular series for those who mainly want to get "introduced" to the basics of the philosophy

We've done several series in the past on the Principal Doctrines, the Vatican Sayings, Frances Wright's Book, DeWitt's book, and Emily Austin's book.

The Principal Doctrines would likely be a good organizing theme for the topics, but we need to work in explanations from the other sources so the doctrines will be more clear to people new to the framework of ideas.

We need to think about whether to do one per week or exactly how many per month, plus decide a time.

Potentials include:

-- "Second Sunday PD's Study Group" - Second Sunday of the month at 1pm ET (which should work for European time zone members and anyone in US who likes that time)
-- "Last Monday or Last Tuesday PD's Study Group" - Last Monday of the month at 8pm ET

-or-

-- change the "First Monday" to start a half hour earlier - meet and greet for the first half hour, and then proceed to PD's study group.

Let us know your thoughts on this here in the thread and we'll continue planning.

Thinking on this further...symbols come about through intense practice over time, through religious feelings and meditations, and religious application/practices of thoughts and ideas.

You can read about the development of "Om" on Wikipedia to see that it is a long and complex process born out of the usefulness of the symbol.

So creation of an Epicurean symbol must have an interface between feeling and usefulness.

Right now I see a usefulness of the 20th moon symbol that Eikadistes created, as this is something all Epicureans would partake in.

Quote from Julia

This seems to imply getting agreement before actual usage, and I don't think that's how it works. Symbols like these are adopted and used without asking for universal agreement, let alone permission, and they either make it or they don't.

Regarding the use of the symbol of the cross: "Before the 4th century AD, multiple Christian symbols were used, including the fish (Ichthys), the anchor, the ship, and the Chi Rho. These symbols were often found in catacombs and other early Christian art. The cross itself wasn't a prominent symbol until later, with the main focus on symbols like the fish which represented Jesus Christ, God's Son, Savior. Christians were initially hesitant to openly display the cross due to fear of ridicule and persecution from the Roman authorities. Emperor Constantine's conversion to Christianity in the 4th century was a major turning point. He promoted the cross as a symbol of the faith and even used it in his battle banners. The Edict of Milan in 313 legalized Christianity, paving the way for the open display and celebration of the cross." Source: Google search.

An idea, the animal who most enjoys life holding a pearl of wisdom:

Quote from Cassius

"In Epicurean theory, is ANYTHING in life (even desire) always pleasurable except pleasure, or is anything always painful except pain?"

Are you asking if a particular set of unfolding circumstances will always produce pleasure or always produce pain in a human being?

Such that:

If I am hungry and I eat something sweet it will always produce a feeling of pleasure.

-or-

If I someone forcefully sticks bamboo shoots under my fingernails it is always painful.

??

Thinking further about the question "What is the goal of life?"

...more directly: "What is my goal in life?" -- I would add more such as well-being, satisfaction, peace of mind, and pleasant abiding...in addition to pleasure (enjoyment) and happiness.

I don't think I'll be able to feel settled about this until I feel that "natural and unnecessary" has been adequately defined.

We know that Epicurus was 1) influenced by, 2) transformed and adapted, and 3) argued against, some aspects of the philosophical ideas that were popular during his time in ancient Greece.

Does anyone know which section of Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics talks about "unnecessary desires" ? Bryan  Don  Joshua

According to an internet search:

"Aristotle also identified unnecessary desires, which he viewed as those that go beyond the essential and contribute to excessive consumption, luxury, and unhappiness. These desires are often associated with material possessions and status, rather than genuine human needs."

Thinking about "natural and unnecessary"...(natural but unnecessary is another way to think about it):

You need a jacket to keep warm but it doesn't matter what it looks like.

Unnecessary for it to be a new jacket.
Unnecessary for it to be "in fashion" or a particular style.
Unnecessary for it to be a certain type of fabric or color.
And, a blanket could keep you warm if you don't have a jacket, but a jacket is easier to wear because it won't fall off.